Not Getting Direct Experience.. Just More Beliefs.

[rush]

Although I practice meditation and watch the videos, it feels as if I am just gaining layer after layer of beliefs with this work. For example, when you hear things like "you create your own suffering" this might be true, but i still feel changing externals would benefit me more. How do you actually grasp whats being said rather than just adding another belief which doesn't really bring any results ?

[Kacper Wielunski]

How long are you meditating friend ? And what results you exacly expect ? To be honest first big changes for me appeard not whole year after i started but nontheless those were biggest and best changes in my life i had and you know the longer you will practise the bigger and bigger the benefits will become to the point where you feelbetter after meditation than after sex or gaming marathon so its worth the wait i think ! 

[philosogi]

@rush A video of Leo's which I found helpful to continue practising without getting discouraged. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie8olvmaZug

 

[rush]

@Kacper Wielunski Hi mate. About 25 mins a day. I would like to see results in terms of less neurotic thoughts, calmer etc.. Did you notice any subtle results ? Or did you literally get benefits after a year ?

[Leo Gura]

To have a direct consciousness beyond mere intellectual understanding often takes 100s hours of concentration. Out of the 1000s of hours I've spent meditating and inquiring, I've only only 1 or 2 true direction consciousness experiences. The rest was just intellectual. Which is good, but nothing like direct consciousness.

The fastest way to experience direction consciousness is through the right psychedelics. I experienced the absolute nature of reality within about 10 minutes there, which I hadn't been able to achieve (not even close) with over 1000 hours of meditation.

But just grasping something like "you create your own suffering" doesn't require direction consciousness. Just observe your daily life.

[xXguitarsenXx]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To have a direct consciousness beyond mere intellectual understanding often takes 100s hours of concentration. Out of the 1000s of hours I've spent meditating and inquiring, I've only only 1 or 2 true direction consciousness experiences. The rest was just intellectual. Which is good, but nothing like direct consciousness.

The fastest way to experience direction consciousness is through the right psychedelics. I experienced the absolute nature of reality within about 10 minutes there, which I hadn't been able to achieve (not even close) with over 1000 hours of meditation.

But just grasping something like "you create your own suffering" doesn't require direction consciousness. Just observe your daily life.

@Leo Gura  What is the role of these direct experiences of conciousness or the absolute nature of reality? And are they just as good if you get them with psychedelics?

And are they just motivation for enlightenment work, or do they have another purpose such as the insights you gain from them, or is it something completely different? 

And another question. When you say ¨after enlightenment¨what exactly do you mean? Is it after such a direct experience of conciousness, or is it after such a direct experience when you no longer identify with the body or mind, or something different altogether? 

[Lawrence]

16 hours ago, rush said:

but i still feel changing externals would benefit me more. How do you actually grasp whats being said rather than just adding another belief which doesn't really bring any results ?

Changing externals might be what you need until you realize that changing your externals will not bring about your "experience"

[Sick Boy]

This video of Leo made me really understand how my brain creates thoughts:

Isochronic Tones helped me a lot to start to meditate, but keep in mind that the brain develops tolerance to them and after few days of use the are no longer effective:

 

Regards.

[Kacper Wielunski]

@rush

As i remember benefits were coming slowly but shurely. After my first meditation i really cried tears of happyness as if i know that i found thing iv been looking for many years or remembered something that was a big part of my life maybe other life ? Anyway benefits will come as soon as you will stop to look or even want them. The more you concentrate on those from my experience the less you have. As Leo said in one of his videos one of core things in meditation is to not expect results like any results. Dont worry they will come and i ashure you they will come faster than you think just relax and let youreself work. Just as gym man! Less looking in the mirror after every session the more sudden wow look at that moments .

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, xXguitarsenXx said:

@Leo Gura  What is the role of these direct experiences of conciousness or the absolute nature of reality? And are they just as good if you get them with psychedelics?

And are they just motivation for enlightenment work, or do they have another purpose such as the insights you gain from them, or is it something completely different? 

And another question. When you say ¨after enlightenment¨what exactly do you mean? Is it after such a direct experience of conciousness, or is it after such a direct experience when you no longer identify with the body or mind, or something different altogether? 

Role for what? They rob you of the illusion of roles or goals.

There is a very large variety of direct consciousness experiences possible, whether using psychedelics or concentration practices. They range in usefulness for personal development from 0 to infinity. One psychedelic session could be more life-transforming that 10 years of therapy. Although that's not guaranteed.

They go way beyond mere motivation. They can produce genuine enlightenment-like insights. For example you can become conscious that life and death are not real. Or that there is no such thing as a separate ego self.

Enlightenment can be defined in various ways. A single enlightenment insight or experience is usually not enough to actually become enlightened. I tend to equate enlightenment with a permanent realization that what you are is Absolute Nothingness, and not the body, mind, or personal identity you presently believe you are. And for me enlightenment means that you no longer believe that what you really are can die, because your true nature transcends time, space, and existence.

[Flicker_boy]

would you equate this to arhatship@Leo Gura ? i mean, your definition of enlightenment

Edited August 27, 2016 by InsidesOut

[xXguitarsenXx]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Role for what? They rob you of the illusion of roles or goals.

There is a very large variety of direct consciousness experiences possible, whether using psychedelics or concentration practices. They range in usefulness for personal development from 0 to infinity. One psychedelic session could be more life-transforming that 10 years of therapy. Although that's not guaranteed.

They go way beyond mere motivation. They can produce genuine enlightenment-like insights. For example you can become conscious that life and death are not real. Or that there is no such thing as a separate ego self.

Enlightenment can be defined in various ways. A single enlightenment insight or experience is usually not enough to actually become enlightened. I tend to equate enlightenment with a permanent realization that what you are is Absolute Nothingness, and not the body, mind, or personal identity you presently believe you are. And for me enlightenment means that you no longer believe that what you really are can die, because your true nature transcends time, space, and existence.

@Leo Gura . I just become confused, because sometimes you say that psychedelics isn't a shortcut, but now you say that they can create ¨genuine enlightenment-like insights¨.

For me it seems like psychedelics can be a catalyst for the enlightenment journey/work, but only if you already are doing some enlightenment work. For example in a psychedelic session i saw that my whole ego structure just is ¨my¨ mind saying that their is a ego and connecting that ego to everything that i think i am. Hard to explain, but it was so obvious. It didn't make me enlightened, because i again identify with the ego, but now i know that it isn't a waste of my time to do enlightenment work, because i actually have seen that their is some real insights to have.

I know that psychedelics can't take you all the way, and that you need to do alot of work yourself, but can't psychedelics be like a catalyst? Making the spiritual journey shorter? 

[philosogi]

@xXguitarsenXx Friendly warning: Don't fall into the trap of thinking there are shortcuts and don't be impatient. Look up some biographies of people who have gained enlightenment; read their life stories. It's fascinating and illuminating. 

Ask yourself the question you just asked Leo ("can't psychedelics be like a catalyst?"). See what your deepest highest self thinks about it. You probably can't answer it right away. You might need to ponder this question for days or weeks or months. Do you need someone else to tell you their answer? Cause it's not going to be the same.

[key]

@rush

Meditate, contemplate, question everything. 

Want a shortcut? Take drugs, alone & safe, be aware on them, apply your knowledge.

p.s There's no such thing as a 'shortcut' for what do the words really mean anyways? Everything that happes should be, it's your ego that views it as 'cheating' or 'inauthentic' 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Kenya