Social Psychology

[capriciousduck]

Hi, I've been a patient for about 7-9 years. I'm Schizophrenic(no hallucinations) and depressed due to family issues. And I'm diagnosed in 2017 and now, as far as I know, I'm in good health. However, I lack socializing skills. If I am good at something, that would be with computers. Not a hardcoder, but I know many things. However, as I said, I need help with social skills. 

 

Do you recommend any good psychology books? (apart from leo's videos)

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, capriciousduck said:

However, as I said, I need help with social skills. 

Do you recommend any good psychology books? (apart from leo's videos)

This is a non sequitur. The only way you build social skills is by doing it in practice: go out there and be social. You don't become more social by putting more ideas about it inside your head. Being social is about getting out of your head, learning to feel others and meeting them where they're at, and you cannot think yourself to that place. You have to walk yourself to that place, and only then you can start using your mind, to interact with other people.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

57 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This is a non sequitur. The only way you build social skills is by doing it in practice: go out there and be social. You don't become more social by putting more ideas about it inside your head. Being social is about getting out of your head, learning to feel others and meeting them where they're at, and you cannot think yourself to that place. You have to walk yourself to that place, and only then you can start using your mind, to interact with other people.

This,

Or the other way around..

You can work on your self in isolation and discover who you truly are, and who you truly are is an attractive social genius entity.

[ravlondon]

@capriciousduck I have high functioning autism, I've found that the best way to gain social knowledge is to social exposure with a positive mindset.

The key thing when socialising is to understand the mind(s) of the people you are talking to, what are they motivated by, what do they seem to like, dislike etc, this is a skill that you will pick up.

Fill yourself with positive ideas about yourself and others and go out and speak to people, you will learn unconsciously.

Social psychology can fill your mind with unnecessary theories and can lead to you making potentially incorrect assumptions in social situations, I recommend against it, unless it's a formal education or for entertainment.

Edited October 10, 2020 by ravlondon

[Preety_India]

You could try online socializing if your mental health is preventing you. 

It's like a virtual environment of learning social cues, what to say, what not to say, how to understand people's vibes, what type of people get along with you, and a lot that you can learn simply by online socializing. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

This,

Or the other way around..

You can work on your self in isolation and discover who you truly are, and who you truly are is an attractive social genius entity.

Hell no. If you haven't talked to anybody in your entire life, dropping the internal narrator doesn't automatically grant you social skills. Becoming awake will only keep you from holding yourself back (drawbacks that stem from neurotic thoughts), but being social is an actual skill that you have to develop by actively engaging in it. For example, you don't become a guitar god by realizing you are God. That's a ridiculous expectation.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Hell no. If you haven't talked to anybody in your entire life, dropping the internal narrator doesn't automatically grant you social skills. Becoming awake will only keep you from holding yourself back (drawbacks that stem from neurotic thoughts), but being social is an actual skill that you have to develop by actively engaging in it. For example, you don't become a guitar god by realizing you are God. That's a ridiculous expectation.

You only need language to communicate, and that's it. The rest is ego games and the ego can never win against God. I'm speaking from experience, but you'd have to open up your mind.

[Superfluo]

@capriciousduck

Start analyzing interactions and observing how people relate to each other. Keep thinking how to make people feel as good as possible without making them feel awkward. The key is keeping in mind how others perceive you, how they respond to how you behave during the interaction. Be careful though to not make it compulsive, not to beat yourself up for this and not to start caring about what other people think of you so much that you feel uncomfortable and neurotic.

However, social skills can be dug out doing therapeutic/psychological work. Ask yourself: "Why I'm not accessing my social skills? What is preventing them to show up? What is blocking me? Why I don't feel connected to people?". Usually a lack of social skills comes from emotional blockages.

[capriciousduck]

@Carl-Richard   @Superfluo  @Gesundheit  @ravlondon  @Preety_India 

Thanks to all of you. I'm going to go out frequently from now on:)

[Reciprocality]

Ever heard the idea "get outside your head"? Among all the tips one can get on the topic this one stands out for me, and that it does because socializing is a primordial act, a game of sensation more so than intelect. How long have our prefrontal cortex wandered these lands of our planet? 100 000 in the current form, 300 000? 1 000 000? It pales in comparison to that of socialization which probably occured in our ancestery a billion year prior.

If you peoplewatched in your younger years you probably noticed a lot of dumb shit were said, but only ever taken issue with if said by the some outgroup as opposed to ingroup. The ingroup do not have high intelectual standard by which they infer deserving members, but rather they FEEL and connect EMOTIONALY with the fascial and bodily expressions of their peers, their physical conduct if you will, their lightheartedness rather.

Which is the very dichotomy to how an analytical being such as you and me spontaneously functions (by no cause of any inteligable will). The good news is that the brain can be turned down to 20% with practise. So to enjoy those natural signals other as well as our selves sends by default. 

The process can by proxy or implicitly be found in some of Leo's videos, altough i can not name one on the go.

[Carl-Richard]

On 11.10.2020 at 4:42 AM, Gesundheit said:

You only need language to communicate, and that's it.

Believe it or not, language acquisition is a social activity that takes decades to perfect. It's also not just about the ability to speak the language, but knowing the specific cultural fingerprint of a social group is very important in order to be able to assimilate, and that also takes decades if we're counting from day one. That goes far beyond merely the basic developmental psycholinguistics and more into complex/cortical sociocultural dynamics.

"Enlightenment" doesn't automatically grant you the do's and don'ts of a particular culture: it only works as a generalized buffer of existing structures. Becoming enlightened and going to the bar doesn't make you any less of an alien than you used to be previously, just a little less anxious and a more eccentric type of alien.

 

On 11.10.2020 at 4:42 AM, Gesundheit said:

I'm speaking from experience, but you'd have to open up your mind.

Did you not socialize at all?

[Gesundheit]

@Carl-Richard You're assuming a certain standard for you to be accepted within society. That's the general trend for the people in self-help because they lack confidence and therefore resort to self-help as a way to improve. I have been there myself. But the reality is that you don't need anything to blend in except the confidence and faith that you belong. Everything else will automatically fall into place if you just be. Your true self will shine through and place you exactly where you should be. You will fit like a piece of a puzzle effortlessly.

Also, it could simply be an ego-complex issue where you don't accept being anything less than the leader. In which case, it's on you to dissolve your ego or keep improving it until you become a good leader.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Carl-Richard You're assuming a certain standard for you to be accepted within society.

Society is a very general term. Are bums accepted in society? Well, in some ways yes, some ways no. And you're correct: I'm talking about very specfic and nuanced social interactions that self-help is concerned with, because that is what you should aim for as a functional human being. If you just want to get by, sure do your thing, but if you want to excel in something, there are certain requirements that you must take up.

 

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

But the reality is that you don't need anything to blend in except the confidence and faith that you belong. Everything else will automatically fall into place if you just be. Your true self will shine through and place you exactly where you should be. You will fit like a piece of a puzzle effortlessly.

That is also extremely relative. What if I have a speech impediment or look like a horse? What if I'm from another country originally or have had a poor upbringing that doesn't match the environment of my peers? You're severely underestimating the amount of social privilege that just makes you able to drop all concerns and just go with the flow.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Society is a very general term. Are bums accepted in society? Well, in some ways yes, some ways no. And you're correct: I'm talking about very specfic and nuanced social interactions that self-help is concerned with, because that is what you should aim for as a functional human being. If you just want to get by, sure do your thing, but if you want to excel in something, there are certain requirements that you must take up.

In my experience, confidence alone is more than enough (assuming you have enough levels self-love/self-esteem). If you don't have those things, you're not likely gonna be happy with yourself in the first place and therefore you will likely project that unhappiness outwards onto your personality (or society if you're a victim). That will make you want to change. The change you're seeking is not actually in the content of your personality. It is more in its structure. Confidence and self-esteem are of personality structure, not content. Once the changes are made, your vibe will change, and you will start attracting people to you effortlessly. The alternative scenario I see is to spend like 5 years doing personal development and eventually succeed at creating a fake identity, or personality, which seems solid on the outside, but is fragile on the inside.

To put yourself out there and socialize is good because it fixes the problem automatically. Your subconscious will connect the dots from the data you'll collect, and you'll know how to interact properly. It's as good as going inwards. But imo, self-help alone will never be helpful.

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That is also extremely relative. What if I have a speech impediment or look like a horse?

Will self-help turn a horse into a human?

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What if I'm from another country originally or have had a poor upbringing that doesn't match the environment of my peers?

This does not really matter. Since it's relative, your value is not set in stones. Maybe your mismatch will cause your peers to be more attracted to you instead of being turned off. There are no specific rules for attraction. You just gotta be authentic (love yourself and be confident), the rest is not up to you.

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're severely underestimating the amount of social privilege that just makes you able to just drop all concerns and just go with the flow.

I'm severely underestimating the belief that you need to become something else other than your own self. Otherwise, I acknowledge the fact that some people have it easier than others. In which case, improvements may be required in order to climb up the social ladder. However, I would still say that confidence and self-esteem are the biggest factors, your levels of development in all other areas come next.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

In my experience, confidence alone is more than enough (assuming you have enough levels self-love/self-esteem).

You can't run a car on nothing but air. You need an engine and some gas: engine is structure, gas is content. Confidence is structure, culture is content. You need both.

 

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

But imo, self-help alone will never be helpful.

Spirituality is self-help though.

 

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Will self-help turn a horse into a human?

That is not the point. The point is that in some social settings, depending on the culture, looking like a horse will be detrimental to your chances of succeeding socially, i.e. it's culturally dependent. Social skills depend in part on cultural markers that are either in or out of your control. Repeated practice can help with the former.

 

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

This does not really matter. Since it's relative, your value is not set in stones. Maybe your mismatch will cause your peers to be more attracted to you instead of being turned off. There are no specific rules for attraction. You just gotta be authentic (love yourself and be confident), the rest is not up to you.

It's to a certain degree relative, in the grand scheme of things, cross-culturally, of course.

Nevertheless, socialization is 90% a Stage Purple endeavor with undeniable qualities that cannot be missed in order for you to not come of like a jellyfish (childhood socialization etc.), and then additionally, within a culture, there are specific requirements of cultural norms that cannot be simply downloaded from the iEnlightenment memory cloud (higher-order sociocultural dynamics).

Sure, most people don't have to think much about these things and can go off into their caves all they want, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Ramana Maharshi could just walk down to the bar and pull some numbers. He would atleast have to switch the loincloth for something else.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

@Carl-Richard Generally what you're saying is that I should learn to conform to my society, at least to a certain degree? Am I getting this part right? If that's the case, I fundamentally disagree. Because it doesn't matter the culture/content I have, since I influence the people around me too. It's a two-way highway. Society can influence me, and I can influence it too.

And as a matter of fact, the most confident and self-loving people are generally the ones who set the trends, regardless of the actual content of the trends. Notice how radically culture has changed over time and in different places. It does not make sense to say that culture is changing by itself or by conformists, or by fake people. The people who set the trends are not the socially awkward ones, obviously. They're the most authentic to themselves. But maybe it's kind of paradoxical because being authentic implies a certain level of conformity, although it would be authentic unlike just being a conformist for the sake of being a conformist, or simply out of fear.

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Spirituality is self-help though.

It could be. But it's one thing to learn and practise spirituality by yourself (more authenticity), and it's another thing to cram knowledge from others (more inauthanticity). That's why the inwards path would work while forcing it through reading books and watching videos wouldn't.

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sure, most people don't have to think much about these things and can go off into their caves all they want, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Ramana Maharshi could just walk down to the bar and pull some numbers. He would atleast have to switch the loincloth for something else.

Most people don't go into caves. Most people are naturally socially gifted. It's the minority that find their way to self-help. Most people never think about anything consciously, and yet generally, things work decently for them. Ramana wouldn't need moves in order to get laid, he had enough status to speak for him 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

@Carl-Richard Generally what you're saying is that I should learn to conform to my society, at least to a certain degree? Am I getting this part right? If that's the case, I fundamentally disagree.

Basic social interaction is ALL about conformity, hence why I mentioned Stage Purple. Remember, we're trying to give advice on how to learn basic social skills. That is what the OP is interested in here. What you're talking about applies to <1% of the social biomass out there. Outside of those niche cases, if you don't conform to social norms in any shape or form, you'll be cast out, and it doesn't matter a single bit if you're enlightened or not.

If you're talking about your own experience here, I severely doubt that you haven't assimilated into your own culture to a certain extent or that you choose not to conform to most social norms. You're taking an intuitive approach that doesn't stand on its own, as it requires a relative degree of conformity (which may be less than average, but is nevertheless still a level conformity).

You're actually coming from a conformist perspective and trying to go into the post-conformist realm in order to rid yourself of cultural hangups, and that's fine. What I'm talking about is how to go from the pre-conformist realm and into the conformist realm, because that is what the OP seems to struggle with.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Basic social interaction is ALL about conformity, hence why I mentioned Stage Purple. Remember, we're trying to give advice on how to learn basic social skills. That is what the OP is interested in here. What you're talking about applies to <1% of the social biomass out there. Outside of those niche cases, if you don't conform to social norms in any shape or form, you'll be cast out, and it doesn't matter a single bit if you're enlightened or not.

I agree. Although I would argue that you won't necessarily be cast out if you don't conform. Since you exist and have value and things to offer, people will have to conform to you. The more valuable you are, the more authentic you will be able to express, the more influential you will be. Your place within your social circle will change depending on the value you provide for others.

However, value is relative and arbitrary. Some people will like you for your insecurities because of their sympathy, and others will run a miles away from you. Some people will like you for your passion, and others will despise you for it and be jealous. Some people will like you because of your conformity, and others will bully you for it. Etc...

There's no science to social interactions. And probabilities don't apply here. You can have the best maps in the world, and still be unlucky and suck, and fall into the first pit on your way.

All you're left with at the end of the day is yourself. 

After all, if you don't love and value yourself, what does it matter if everyone else does? And if you do love and value yourself, what does it matter if everyone else doesn't?

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're talking about your own experience here, I severely doubt that you haven't assimilated into your own culture to a certain extent or that you choose not to conform to most social norms. You're taking an intuitive approach that doesn't stand on its own, as it requires a relative degree of conformity (which may be less than average, but is nevertheless still a level conformity).

You're actually coming from a conformist perspective and trying to go into the post-conformist realm in order to rid yourself of cultural hangups, and that's fine. What I'm talking about is how to go from the pre-conformist realm and into the conformist realm, because that is what the OP seems to struggle with.

Sounds about right. Maybe it's stages that everyone has to go through. Then again, "Alpha" people seem to have it naturally. For that reason, I think it's possible to copy their strategies without necessarily having to go through all the stages. Their strategies are simple (although unconscious): confidence and self-love.