Self hatred/ self criticism - not worthy to be in a relationship.

[Eph75]

It's a bit silly question, but the trick of it is that people usually don't include themselves as being important in ones own life. Fell for it myself back in the day and it got me to reflect.

We are the most important person to ourselves. We need to help ourselves before we can help others. We need to look at our needsbefore looking to others needs.

Yet some of us end up putting other peoples needs before our own, downplaying ours. Having a sense of responsibily for others needs before our own. Ultimately we're not responsible for anyone else but ourselves, and we should not allow such thoughts to downplay our own value, nor comparing ourselves against others.

 

 

 

[SamC]

17 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

It's a bit silly question, but the trick of it is that people usually don't include themselves as being important in ones own life. Fell for it myself back in the day and it got me to reflect.

We are the most important person to ourselves. We need to help ourselves before we can help others. We need to look at our needsbefore looking to others needs.

Yet some of us end up putting other peoples needs before our own, downplaying ours. Having a sense of responsibily for others needs before our own. Ultimately we're not responsible for anyone else but ourselves, and we should not allow such thoughts to downplay our own value, nor comparing ourselves against others.

 

 

 

Wow, of corse. I thought about including myself but it felt egotistical. It really shows my problem, I don't wanna be egotistical in putting my own needs before someone's else.  I am aware of what I should do, but I still don't wanna do it cause I care what people think. Thanks for that bro, cheers. It really got me thinking aswell.

[Eph75]

Glad to being helpful 

Sort yourself out first, it's not egotistical, it's a must. On this path, once we've sorted ourselves and our own basic need deficiencies, we're more than likely ending up becoming helpful to others. There's a time for everything, no need to rush. 

[SamC]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

You don't accept yourself, yourself. So you are looking and feel needy for a relationship, because you want them to provide that acceptance for you. However this is something you can have organically and internally, even if it doesn't feel like it now. One way you tackle this is when you have any those bad thoughts of "I'm not good enough. I hate myself. I don't have enough X. I'm not Y." Don't emotionally react to them. Simply notice them and watch them pass in you. Don't have thoughts about the thoughts, don't feel bad that they are there. Let them go through you and leave, because they are only temporary. They aren't what truly makes you feel good deep down.... so as you show your brain you don't really care about them (and aren't feeding them with reactions) they will start to show up less and become less impactful. You'll start to have a healthier shift. Really try this @SamC it will work for you!

Thanks for this, interesting how you describe that the brain starts caring after a while. It makes sense. Wow

3 hours ago, Roy said:

Also good news is you don't need to be perfect or have overflowing confidence to pursue someone! Take a second to realize they aren't perfect either. They are another person just like you so there is no reason to hold them to some divine standard where any possible judgment they make is righteous and true. That's what you're probably fearing.

Yes, that's exactly right, thanks for your help man!

 

[SamC]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Drop all the BS advice and don't do anything at all. Self-help implies changing yourself because you hate yourself. The only reason you'd be listening to any advice is because you hate yourself as you are and want to become something else. But examine exactly what you are, and what you want to become. And see that you really don't want to become anything else other than your current self. You want to be at peace, and peace is found right here and now, not somewhere else in the future when you become "better". Notice the subtle difference between being and becoming. Notice that you are already what you seek. Notice that you are already whole and don't actually lack anything at all, and that no amount of change/becoming can ever change that, neither up nor down.

I sometimes realize this, but it doesn't last that long. Becoming more concious is in other words the way to go - not because I have to become conscious in order to be peaceful, but realize that I am always at peace no matter what happens.

Self help is good though, the only thing is I need to pull more towards self love/ acceptance. Life is a great balancing act

[SamC]

24 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

Glad to being helpful 

Sort yourself out first, it's not egotistical, it's a must. On this path, once we've sorted ourselves and our own basic need deficiencies, we're more than likely ending up becoming helpful to others. There's a time for everything, no need to rush. 

Amen to that. You're wise man, I like your way of looking at these things. That's why I followed you just now Thanks for your help (:

[Eph75]

Appreciate your very kind words 

[Gesundheit]

6 hours ago, SamC said:

Self help is good though

Actually, from where I am at right now, it's not good at all, just useless. Most people don't even know the first thing about self-help, and most of them are generally at peace and life is working for them just fine.

[kag101]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Actually, from where I am at right now, it's not good at all, just useless

I disagree. Self-help can be useful, but it certainly is not a panacea like some people claim. 

 

@SamC Interesting topic. You seem honest and aware. I think that's the first step to overcoming this problem. 

It's hard to be in a relationship in that way. It will sabotage everything. It's like a virus. 

I think psychotherapy can really help with that. I don't think that affirmations are enough, because love is not something you can "talk yourself into", it's something you have to feel. 

And regarding self-love, yeah, it's important. But you need to have received love from another human being before. 

Did you get love & care from someone as you were growing up? 

[Gesundheit]

34 minutes ago, kag101 said:

I disagree. Self-help can be useful, but it certainly is not a panacea like some people claim. 

Self-love is the ultimate answer, and it's kinda antagonistic to self-help. From where I'm at right now, self-help has zero value, even on the relative level. It is playing the game, but not actually winning it. Winning the game means stepping out of the game for good, with the prize of self-love, which is right here right now. Only if realized.

[Martin123]

12 hours ago, SamC said:

Yeah I know. This self hatred is a social conditioning from my dad. It's really hard to do though, but something I need to do. Do you know any good ways to do this or is it just something to visualize?

Try saying these words Out loud.

’I acknowledge the I was emotionally neglected, hurt, betrayed and disrespected by my father. As a young child needing to feel close to my parent I had taken on his energy in hopes that the more like him I Become, the safer and more loved I will feel. In taking on his energy, I have also taken in self-blame, shame, criticism and self-hatred, for those are the issues my father has never been able to reconcile himself.

In knowing this is so, I allow all the energy I’ve taken on from my father to be cleared out of my field completely. May my father be forgiven as I let go of the toxic patterning, knowing that every authentic moment of feeling my emotions with honesty and openness, is a moment of forgiveness, that benefits me first, and my fathers evolution equally. And so I forgive myself, for thinking Of myself as less-than and denying myself, because those are only the familial beliefs I’ve taken on. But I am ready to be different than my family.

And so I am healed.’ 

[SamC]

4 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Actually, from where I am at right now, it's not good at all, just useless. Most people don't even know the first thing about self-help, and most of them are generally at peace and life is working for them just fine.

I disagree but I understand what you mean. It's the paradox of self help and self love. Yeah, they are doing fine most people ( aka surviving) but most are miserable inside. Besides that a lot of self help is done to experience more self love.

 Self help is good, be careful to not fall into a strawman where it's black and white. To much is bad, to little is also not good. It's all context to the situation.

Self help + self love + balance is the best

Edited October 11, 2020 by SamC

[SamC]

4 hours ago, kag101 said:

I disagree. Self-help can be useful, but it certainly is not a panacea like some people claim. 

 

@SamC Interesting topic. You seem honest and aware. I think that's the first step to overcoming this problem. 

It's hard to be in a relationship in that way. It will sabotage everything. It's like a virus. 

Yeah for sure, it is even harder to get in one with a girl. Lmao

4 hours ago, kag101 said:

I think psychotherapy can really help with that. I don't think that affirmations are enough, because love is not something you can "talk yourself into", it's something you have to feel. 

Yeah I have done that but I am thinking if I should do it again. I am doing a lot of meditation and self compassion ( + breathwork) which kind of offers the same results long term.

4 hours ago, kag101 said:

And regarding self-love, yeah, it's important. But you need to have received love from another human being before. 

Maybe, I don't know If that's true or false. I think there good be a point to experience it and then see that I don't need it from someone else than myself.

4 hours ago, kag101 said:

Did you get love & care from someone as you were growing up? 

Yeah my mum was and is good at it. My dad has low self esteem and perfectionism. That's where it all comes from.

[Gesundheit]

18 minutes ago, SamC said:

I disagree but I understand what you mean.

No you don't, really. If you understand what I mean you will not be miserable. But it sounds to me like you are, so you don't yet understand but you think you do.

The difference is very subtle it's tricky to pinpoint. Right now, you live in rejection of yourself, however it may be, and you believe that at some point you will be happy with yourself, only if you can change this thing or that thing. Meanwhile, other people live with decent levels of acceptance (although unconsciously) and with a certain amount of rejection enough to keep them moving forward. I believe that somehow you're doing the same thing, but perhaps you're taking it to the extremes and so you're here. But what most people don't understand is that there's no where to go. Most people are merely following the ideals they collected from here and there, in an endless chasing manner, without realizig that life is not perfect and never meant to be. You can't have the good without the bad, or the positive without the negative. The only reason you hate yourself is because you think you lack some "positive" things and/or have "negative" things. You don't yet realize that the things you're seeking are right here in front of you, and that you can't avoid the things that you're afraid of. You only lack the courage to stay still and see through the illusion. Understandable. But you're paying for that fear through your suffering. So if you want out, I have shown you the way. Now it's up to you. You can keep seeking whatever you're seeking, and live that way forever, while paying the price with your peace of mind. Or you can opt out and have the ultimate peace of mind, aka liberation. Or you can simply aim for anywhere in between. It's all up to you. But regardless of your choice, if you still don't love yourself, you're still gonna be miserable.

39 minutes ago, SamC said:

Self help is good, be careful to not fall into a strawman where it's black and white. To much is bad, to little is also not good. It's all context to the situation.

Self help + self love + balance is the best

Good or bad, best or worst, etc... are all judgements. But the problem with judgements is that they rule out half the truth every time. For example, saying that stealing is bad leaves out the good that the thief gets. Stealing in this case is only focused on the victim's half of the truth. In reality, the good creates the bad, and the bad creates the good. They are literally identical in that sense. But to a self (ego), it is hard to see this because it's very threatening because a self is biased to itself and it lives in constant fear to keep itself alive.

But perhaps the stealing metaphor is not accurate enough. Let's take the ego's perspective and remove the criminal from the picture and then only focus on the ego's (victim) part, good and bad will still behave in the same way. Because, money in reality is not anything other than potential. It does not have value in and of itself. It's just potential that we can use turn it into other things. So, more money = more potential ---and less money = less potential. Now, to an ego, potential might seem like the best thing in the world because well, what's better than having more potential? Right? More potential = more power = more freedom = best things in the world --- right? Wrong.

I could list some negatives for having more money:

1. Addiction to gathering more.
2. Fear of loss.
3. Attachment/neurosis.
4. Unhappiness/suffering.
5. Delusion/uncertainty.
6. Disconnection from oneself and others.
7. Greed, aggression, violence, etc...
8. Wars and Mafias.
9. More responsibility.
10. Drug abuse.

And many more, but these are the top 10 that popped up in my head for now. I can explain each one in detail why it would be the case, but no thanks I don't want to go there, but you can contemplate it on your own. And I can guarantee that for the most part, these are inevitable symptoms of being rich, especially the first few ones.

You see what I did there? I've only focused on the negatives of having more money. I could now list all the positives in opposition to the negatives I listed above, but there's no need to, because it is the obvious part. The hidden part was the negatives that I brought out of the shadows. That was just a demonstration of how the mind works and how it hides the other part of the coin for its own purposes (mostly for surviving the identity). Now I realize that this might be the longest post I've written here, so I'll just stop lol.

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

No you don't, really. If you understand what I mean you will not be miserable. But it sounds to me like you are, so you don't yet understand but you think you do.

The difference is very subtle it's tricky to pinpoint. Right now, you live in rejection of yourself, however it may be, and you believe that at some point you will be happy with yourself, only if you can change this thing or that thing. Meanwhile, other people live with decent levels of acceptance (although unconsciously) and with a certain amount of rejection enough to keep them moving forward. I believe that somehow you're doing the same thing, but perhaps you're taking it to the extremes and so you're here. But what most people don't understand is that there's no where to go. Most people are merely following the ideals they collected from here and there, in an endless chasing manner, without realizig that life is not perfect and never meant to be. You can't have the good without the bad, or the positive without the negative. The only reason you hate yourself is because you think you lack some "positive" things and/or have "negative" things. You don't yet realize that the things you're seeking are right here in front of you, and that you can't avoid the things that you're afraid of. You only lack the courage to stay still and see through the illusion. Understandable. But you're paying for that fear through your suffering. So if you want out, I have shown you the way. Now it's up to you. You can keep seeking whatever you're seeking, and live that way forever, while paying the price with your peace of mind. Or you can opt out and have the ultimate peace of mind, aka liberation. Or you can simply aim for anywhere in between. It's all up to you. But regardless of your choice, if you still don't love yourself, you're still gonna be miserable.

Good or bad, best or worst, etc... are all judgements. But the problem with judgements is that they rule out half the truth every time. For example, saying that stealing is bad leaves out the good that the thief gets. Stealing in this case is only focused on the victim's half of the truth. In reality, the good creates the bad, and the bad creates the good. They are literally identical in that sense. But to a self (ego), it is hard to see this because it's very threatening because a self is biased to itself and it lives in constant fear to keep itself alive.

But perhaps the stealing metaphor is not accurate enough. Let's take the ego's perspective and remove the criminal from the picture and then only focus on the ego's (victim) part, good and bad will still behave in the same way. Because, money in reality is not anything other than potential. It does not have value in and of itself. It's just potential that we can use turn it into other things. So, more money = more potential ---and less money = less potential. Now, to an ego, potential might seem like the best thing in the world because well, what's better than having more potential? Right? More potential = more power = more freedom = best things in the world --- right? Wrong.

I could list some negatives for having more money:

1. Addiction to gathering more.
2. Fear of loss.
3. Attachment/neurosis.
4. Unhappiness/suffering.
5. Delusion/uncertainty.
6. Disconnection from oneself and others.
7. Greed, aggression, violence, etc...
8. Wars and Mafias.
9. More responsibility.
10. Drug abuse.

And many more, but these are the top 10 that popped up in my head for now. I can explain each one in detail why it would be the case, but no thanks I don't want to go there, but you can contemplate it on your own. And I can guarantee that for the most part, these are inevitable symptoms of being rich, especially the first few ones.

You see what I did there? I've only focused on the negatives of having more money. I could now list all the positives in opposition to the negatives I listed above, but there's no need to, because it is the obvious part. The hidden part was the negatives that I brought out of the shadows. That was just a demonstration of how the mind works and how it hides the other part of the coin for its own purposes (mostly for surviving the identity). Now I realize that this might be the longest post I've written here, so I'll just stop lol.

Haha love it man. Yeah for sure - I should strive towards peace of mind, aceptance and self love. There is no need to do anything at all, it's fine whatever happens.. except it's not for my ego. That's the reason I ( my ego) want to change by doing X thing.  I understand logically but not emotionally that it won't fullfill me.

In order to achieve peace of mind one has to realize it. I can pretend that I see it, live by it and bow down to it but it's not in my present experience. I am still in Maya - so if I were to try I would try to ape the truth, which wouldn't work, cause I don't know the truth.

That said, I can learn/ become directly conscious that I am enough, that everything is perfect as it is - but untill then, I don't know the truth. That's why we need to help ourselfves to see through the bullshit. That said - self love in my case the way to go, not success necessarily. The interesting part however is how to get to that place. ( not because I am not there yet, but because I am not aware of the fact that I am okey yet). 

You can't tell a neurotic/ depressed person to stop being neurotic unfortunately - it won't help, they have to see it themselves. Thanks for your long post though, and I understand, my cup is already full, I should focus on loving myself (:

[Gesundheit]

8 minutes ago, SamC said:

Haha love it man. Yeah for sure - I should strive towards peace of mind, aceptance and self love. There is no need to do anything at all, it's fine whatever happens.. except it's not for my ego. That's the reason I ( my ego) want to change by doing X thing.  I understand logically but not emotionally that it won't fullfill me.

In order to achieve peace of mind one has to realize it. I can pretend that I see it, live by it and bow down to it but it's not in my present experience. I am still in Maya - so if I were to try I would try to ape the truth, which wouldn't work, cause I don't know the truth.

That said, I can learn/ become directly conscious that I am enough, that everything is perfect as it is - but untill then, I don't know the truth. That's why we need to help ourselfves to see through the bullshit. That said - self love in my case the way to go, not success necessarily. The interesting part however is how to get to that place. ( not because I am not there yet, but because I am not aware of the fact that I am okey yet). 

You can't tell a neurotic/ depressed person to stop being neurotic unfortunately - it won't help, they have to see it themselves. Thanks for your long post though, and I understand, my cup is already full, I should focus on loving myself (:

Yeah, I understand. It can be tough at times. But hang in there, my friend, you will get through this.

Also, what is the truth? If you're interested. I understand if you prefer doing it solo.

[SamC]

19 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Yeah, I understand. It can be tough at times. But hang in there, my friend, you will get through this.

I appreciate your support man. I'm in a ego backlash so I needed it. You give hope

19 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Also, what is the truth? If you're interested. I understand if you prefer doing it solo.

I don't know what the truth is. All I know is that I don't see is anything the way it is.

[Gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, SamC said:

I don't know what the truth is.

This is good. Have you ever wondered about the question: "what is ____?" (the blank ____ substitutes for anything at all). Did you notice that any answer to this question is ultimately always a story? The real question is, what is the thing that I am asking about? In this case; (what is the truth?); any answer would be a story about the truth, without actually addressing the truth itself, the heart of the inquiry. So look at the thing that you're asking about. What are you asking questions about exactly? And there will be your answer, but you may have to keep at it until it clicks. This is how you get direct consciousness of the truth.

Another approach, suggested by Jed Mckenna, is to write down the question "what is the truth?" on a paper, and keep contemplating and trying to answer it.

8 minutes ago, SamC said:

All I know is that I don't see is anything the way it is.

Says who? Or in other words, how do you know? If you don't yet know what the truth is, how can you say that you don't see anything the way it is?

Also, notice that you're acknowledging something through expression here, regardless of how you articulated it with language. Could be a certain feeling, or a certain perception. Regardless, this acknowledgement is your truth. It's who you are, with or without the filters of thought.

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

This is good. Have you ever wondered about the question: "what is ____?" (the blank ____ substitutes for anything at all). Did you notice that any answer to this question is ultimately always a story? The real question is, what is the thing that I am asking about? In this case; (what is the truth?); any answer would be a story about the truth, without actually addressing the truth itself, the heart of the inquiry. So look at the thing that you're asking about. What are you asking questions about exactly? And there will be your answer, but you may have to keep at it until it clicks. This is how you get direct consciousness of the truth.

I should

Quote

Another approach, suggested by Jed Mckenna, is to write down the question "what is the truth?" on a paper, and keep contemplating and trying to answer it.

Ah, like leos how to contemplate using a journal video

Quote

Says who? Or in other words, how do you know? If you don't yet know what the truth is, how can you say that you don't see anything the way it is?

I don't, it's just a story aswell. I don't know if I know or not know the truth. I don't know anything really. Ahh -  I don't know the truth, therefor I don't know what is the truth and what is not... so maybe I know the truth but I don't know that it is the truth. What the fuck is this universe even lmao, it's so weird, I love it.

 

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Also, notice that you're acknowledging something through expression here, regardless of how you articulated it with language. Could be a certain feeling, or a certain perception. Regardless, this acknowledgement is your truth. It's who you are, with or without the filters of thought.

Yeah, true cause the truth is relative ( I think atleast) so my truth is the present moment no matter what ( again maybe, Idk). 

[SamC]

5 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Try saying these words Out loud.

’I acknowledge the I was emotionally neglected, hurt, betrayed and disrespected by my father. As a young child needing to feel close to my parent I had taken on his energy in hopes that the more like him I Become, the safer and more loved I will feel. In taking on his energy, I have also taken in self-blame, shame, criticism and self-hatred, for those are the issues my father has never been able to reconcile himself.

In knowing this is so, I allow all the energy I’ve taken on from my father to be cleared out of my field completely. May my father be forgiven as I let go of the toxic patterning, knowing that every authentic moment of feeling my emotions with honesty and openness, is a moment of forgiveness, that benefits me first, and my fathers evolution equally. And so I forgive myself, for thinking Of myself as less-than and denying myself, because those are only the familial beliefs I’ve taken on. But I am ready to be different than my family.

And so I am healed.’ 

Thanks for the tips - I really appreciate it?