Leo's toxic rhetoric and an inner conflict

[Proserpina]

@Gesundheit Can we try to all get along?

Edited October 12, 2020 by Proserpina

[Shin]

37 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

@Gesundheit Can we try to all get along?

Good luck with that ?

[fridjonk]

43 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

@Gesundheit Can we try to all get along?

+1

There seems to be a lot of hostility and built up anger recently here. 

Leo can you make a video about love so everyone can start parroting it, as has happened in the past. 

There seems to be a seasonal vibe on the forum dependent on what kind of videos he releases. 

 

[seeking_brilliance]

@SirVladimir haha yeah that's why I also cried at my statement   Someday I'll try shrooms.  Hey I just got an idea, "shroom-Zoom meetings"!!!   

@fridjonk well, in this echo chamber, I have also noticed the tension and hostility flaring... it'll either fizzle out or go with a bang. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Shin]

If you don't bow down to the Banacorn, you don't deserve to live honestly.

So getting along with those kind of heretics will never happen sorry ?

[Thewritersunion]

[tags: quick thought, option]
 

Leo should probably get back to using his own models like he did in his older videos. I also think he should do this because it seems (to me at least) he’s entering Coral within spiral Dynamics. 
 

Coral people tend to build their own models and burn all others they have learned from previous stages. 

[Revolutionary Think]

On 10/10/2020 at 5:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

Sometimes my tone is obnoxious and arrogant. I will work on that in the future. You'll definitely see that improve as I grow.

Ya like in the last video where you said stop hanging out with your friends they're all idiots doing stupid stuff and they will suffer greatly for it. Damn man you sound like a fire and brimstone preacher (Westboro Baptist Church much?). Me and my friend really don't go out to big parties and strip clubs etc. We are both a little introverted and shy we like video games, computers, and making jokes with each other. We are deep thinkers as well. I have not introduced my friend to your content because I think it'll be a lot to take in for him but, this friend of mine has been my best friend since about the 4th grade and a loyal good friend at that and we've been through thick and thin together. 

I don't know if he'll be open to your content and what you have to say I think at this point it'll be too overwhelming for him. I am thinking though for those of us who have people in our lives that we like very much should we introduce them to your content and tell them to "change" or just let them be. If we let them be while we self-actualize will they suffer immensely even though they are not the party going or conspiracy theorist kind of people? There are other grievances I want to air out too but, I'll just start with this one @Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Revolutionary Think

21 minutes ago, Revolutionary Think said:

Ya like in the last video where you said stop hanging out with your friends they're all idiots doing stupid stuff and they will suffer greatly for it. Damn man you sound like a fire and brimstone preacher (Westboro Baptist Church much?). Me and my friend really don't go out to big parties and strip clubs etc. We are both a little introverted and shy we like video games, computers, and making jokes with each other. We are deep thinkers as well. I have not introduced my friend to your content because I think it'll be a lot to take in for him but, this friend of mine has been my best friend since about the 4th grade and a loyal good friend at that and we've been through thick and thin together. 

I don't know if he'll be open to your content and what you have to say I think at this point it'll be too overwhelming for him. I am thinking though for those of us who have people in our lives that we like very much should we introduce them to your content and tell them to "change" or just let them be. If we let them be while we self-actualize will they suffer immensely even though they are not the party going or conspiracy theorist kind of people? There are other grievances I want to air out too but, I'll just start with this one @Leo Gura

   I'm in a similar situation too. I know some friends that I'm now hesitant with recommending this for their personal development. I've only once shared this with a female friend in the past, and she was so confused by some of the advanced content, and so offended by the spiritual content that she gave me hell for it.

   Another complaint is not introducing the option to ignore moderators. Not gonna name, but there are a few that are really abusing their roles. It would be really nice to have the option to ignore moderators. Of course, if there's something important, then they'd be able to bypass the ignore and message the users, but users should be able to ignore posts in general.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Danioover9000

[Martin123]

12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Another complaint is not introducing the option to ignore moderators. Not gonna name, but there are a few that are really abusing their roles

Bro I don’t think it’s not the issue we can’t ignore mode, the issue is mods who abuse their power are still mods. 
 

in other words, not many people have a good idea how to respect emotional boundaries here, including mods. Some of them tend to Be invasive which I’ve been vocal about in the past (actually just one in particular in my experience, and I am not afraid to say that that one mode (I think some of us can paint the picture) does not act in a way that is respectful of people’s boundaries). 
 

ive a counselling university background I’ve had a professor taken off a course he was teaching over a lesser complaint I filed than what goes on here on a regular basis. 

[Martin123]

Ps, has everyone forgotten about the time @cetus uttered ‘you question Leo in his absence and for that alone you are banned’, which then proceeded by a ban on @Lento ????

 

or did it get deleted and shrugged under the rug. 

[Danioover9000]

@Martin123

14 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Ps, has everyone forgotten about the time @cetus uttered ‘you question Leo in his absence and for that alone you are banned’, which then proceeded by a ban on @Lento ????

 

or did it get deleted and shrugged under the rug. 

   Oh yes this one I remember! I don't think I have the thread so maybe it's deleted or is hidden, but I think if I'm remembering correctly that one was where Lento was being a bit aggressive with his posting to some other users.

   Similar thing happened to me when I called out one of the users for being a spiritual devil, and I got several temporary warning points and a few permanent warning points, also two thread locks one was a low quality thread and the other was my thread highjacked by two other users full on arguing at each other that it had to be locked.

[Danioover9000]

@Martin123

39 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Bro I don’t think it’s not the issue we can’t ignore mode, the issue is mods who abuse their power are still mods. 
 

in other words, not many people have a good idea how to respect emotional boundaries here, including mods. Some of them tend to Be invasive which I’ve been vocal about in the past (actually just one in particular in my experience, and I am not afraid to say that that one mode (I think some of us can paint the picture) does not act in a way that is respectful of people’s boundaries). 
 

ive a counselling university background I’ve had a professor taken off a course he was teaching over a lesser complaint I filed than what goes on here on a regular basis. 

   I agree that the bigger issue is mods abusing their power, but I disagree with ignoring other related issues that nest out from the main issue and ignoring small steps towards each branching issue. For example, if a user here was jaded by thread locks, warnings, and posts by a moderator, the user might feel every time he/she comes across the postings of the moderator/s/ in question would trigger the user. If there was an option available for the user to ignore posts by such mods, then that user can feel more secure in exploring content here.

   I do agree that boundaries and how you post and write need to be more clear in the guidelines. I think that would weed out more of the low quality posting going on in this forum. Also, examples of what high/low quality posts on each sub-forum looks like.

   Could you explain the last part of your paragraph? 

[Martin123]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Could you explain the last part of your paragraph? 

We had a counselling exam where the 'therapist/professor' acted as a client of ours and we were to offer him counselling. He however even though in a client position took control over the conversation and didn't allow me to have my own counselling style and insisted on the session going his way, which is a boundary violation, and I complained about it as such.

Sometimes if you post an issue of yours here, you get picked apart by seemingly insightful posts that are more of a mechanism of control and pressure, rather than a helpful offering. It is the advice being offered to you being more about the one offering advice, rather than about the recipient of it, as if they were 'getting off' on their role of being needed. 
Not all the advice here works that way, but some of it does. (PS: I used to do the same thing to others years ago, that's how I recognize how toxic it is).

 

 

3 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

How do you set a user on ignore?

upper right corner, click the drop down menu, just above the 'sign out' button there's a 'ignored users' option, there you can add people to ignore to your heart's content.

[Preety_India]

 

Only one request. 

Nobody on the forum has to feel forsaken by others just because others disagree. 

Everyone has the right to their views equally. 

I hate when people say "my advice is right, you're advice is wrong" 

No domination over each other please. 

Don't make the forum a mafia of echo chamber creators. Everyone has a unique opinion and each opinion is right in its perspective 

No user is less or more. 

 

[Thewritersunion]

@Preety_India as someone who has seen mafias and run groups, I can second this. 

[kai0]

Imo this is such a broad and complex issue it should be discussed on various levels . I understand that it's just a forum and that we should not take it too seriously but still I will raise some of what I believe are valid points that can help create more awareness whether here or in real life 

First the level of structure . Modern (green) governments have their structures build on the basis of democracy which means decentralisation of power . The more developed a government is the more decentralised its power is . In Spiral Dynamics the forum moderation is basically stage blue structure where the authority has all the power and the user has almost zero power . Aside from that being a very crude level of moderation on a progressive level in such advanced times, this issue is ignored completely and never even talked about or brought to light like it doesn't even exist and like it's a reality we have to deal with or else we're not welcome. The internet as a structure is basically stage green and it allows for communitys almost of any kind to exist . Forums like this live in the grace of stage green internet environment while they establish whatever environments they want . This is where socialism is being misused by capitalism . A capitalist is allowed to have his own dictatorship within the larger system of socialism . This is normalised like it's just the way life is and supposed to be but in fact its a form of misusing power . To be fair though this is not exclusive to this forum in particular it is more importantly a real life issue . The only two things that helps in the decentralisation here is the report and ignore options, the latter which is limited to normal users, and the former which is dependent on the moderators judgement and biases

Which brings us to the second important point which is the subjectivity of the judgement of the mods and their human biases and possible complexities (aka personal egos). for instance (attachments below) very recently the mod @Max_V has bumped up a dead thread from 7 freaking days ago and locked it with the statement stupid discussion. Here: 

 

seriously what excuse could this lock possibly have??? Honestly to me it sounds like misusing the moderation privileges with very little awareness and possibly with troubled psychology . While I agree that the thread wasn't insightful at all, to me that still does not justify such power abuse. And to be completely honest it rather looks like someone who got bored and decided to go horsing around discovering their powers possibly as an ego boost. Instead the user could be shown instructions on how to post high quality threads (idea: Leo and mods should make a in depth guide for high quality posting) .

Other examples I have for power abuse is when some mod gets emotional and can't control themselves. I would say that happens on a moderate rate as mods are after all just human beings. I've witnessed this myself in many occasions when a mod is arguing with someone the mod is always right and the user is always closed minded and ignorant. Gaslighting is a common technique I see mods demonstrating as well. Projection as a defence mechanism is usually present too. And for God's sake some mods are like 20 years old or younger I mean wtf man are you serious? 

And finally the serious mental issues that some mods have and ignore. I don't want to name names but some mods clearly have mental illnesses such as ocd and intrusive thoughts, some of them have superiority or inferiority complexes, some of them have sadistic tendencies. And these are not things I'm speculating about. These are things said explicitly here by certain mods (they know themselves). But the worst part is that even then, not everything is always said. A lot of things go under the radar and the mods give themselves a pass for ignoring their issues because power is appealing to the ego so they compromise honesty for power and they rather cling to it unjustifiably without being transparent enough to air out their inefficiency in an honest responsible mature manner. Lack of responsibility is a huge indicator of corruption and it should be really discussed instead of getting ignored . thank you for reading and thank you @Martin123 for bringing up the topic I appreciate your courage it inspired me to stand up against what I believe is abuse and corruption 

Edited October 13, 2020 by kai0

[Max_V]

@kai0 Didn't see it was 7 days ago, but to be honest, the thread was quite uninsightful and didn't add anything positive to the discussions of this forum. 

[Michal__]

17 minutes ago, kai0 said:

Imo this is such a broad and complex issue it should be discussed on various levels . I understand that it's just a forum and that we should not take it too seriously but still I will raise some of what I believe are valid points that can help create more awareness whether here or in real life 

First the level of structure . Modern (green) governments have their structures build on the basis of democracy which means decentralisation of power . The more developed a government is the more decentralised its power is . In Spiral Dynamics the forum moderation is basically stage blue structure where the authority has all the power and the user has almost zero power . Aside from that being a very crude level of moderation on a progressive level in such advanced times, this issue is ignored completely and never even talked about or brought to light like it doesn't even exist and like it's a reality we have to deal with or else we're not welcome. The internet as a structure is basically stage green and it allows for communitys almost of any kind to exist . Forums like this live in the grace of stage green internet environment while they establish whatever environments they want . This is where socialism is being misused by capitalism . A capitalist is allowed to have his own dictatorship within the larger system of socialism . This is normalised like it's just the way life is and supposed to be but in fact its a form of misusing power . To be fair though this is not exclusive to this forum in particular it is more importantly a real life issue . The only two things that helps in the decentralisation here is the report and ignore options, the latter which is limited to normal users, and the former which is dependent on the moderators judgement and biases

Which brings us to the second important point which is the subjectivity of the judgement of the mods and their human biases and possible complexities (aka personal egos). for instance (attachments below) very recently the mod @Max_V has bumped up a dead thread from 7 freaking days ago and locked it with the statement stupid discussion. Here: 

 

seriously what excuse could this lock possibly have??? Honestly to me it sounds like misusing the moderation privileges with very little awareness and possibly with troubled psychology . While I agree that the thread wasn't insightful at all, to me that still does not justify such power abuse. And to be completely honest it rather looks like someone who got bored and decided to go horsing around discovering their powers possibly as an ego boost. Instead the user could be shown instructions on how to post high quality threads (idea: Leo and mods should make a in depth guide for high quality posting) .

Other examples I have for power abuse is when some mod gets emotional and can't control themselves. I would say that happens on a moderate rate as mods are after all just human beings. I've witnessed this myself in many occasions when a mod is arguing with someone the mod is always right and the user is always closed minded and ignorant. Gaslighting is a common technique I see mods demonstrating as well. Projection as a defence mechanism is usually present too. And for God's sake some mods are like 20 years old or younger I mean wtf man are you serious? 

And finally the serious mental issues that some mods have and ignore. I don't want to name names but some mods clearly have mental illnesses such as ocd and intrusive thoughts, some of them have superiority or inferiority complexes, some of them have sadistic tendencies. And these are not things I'm speculating about. These are things said explicitly here by certain mods (they know themselves). But the worst part is that even then, not everything is always said. A lot of things go under the radar and the mods give themselves a pass for ignoring their issues because power is appealing to the ego so they compromise honesty for power and they rather cling to it unjustifiably without being transparent enough to air out their inefficiency in an honest responsible mature manner. Lack of responsibility is a huge indicator of corruption and it should be really discussed instead of getting ignored . thank you for reading and thank you @Martin123 for bringing up the topic I appreciate your courage it inspired me to stand up against what I believe is abuse and corruption 

Well, you have to get the mods somewhere. As far as I know, they don't get paid. It is basically charity from their part. 

I agree for the most part though.

[Martin123]

2 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Well, you have to get the mods somewhere. As far as I know, they don't get paid. It is basically charity from their part. 

Yes this is a very important point everyone’s gotta remember.

 

that being said there’s no excuse of abuse of power, even though locking an old thread is in my opinion hardly a pressing issue.

24 minutes ago, kai0 said:

thank you for reading and thank you @Martin123 for bringing up the topic I appreciate your courage it inspired me to stand up against what I believe is abuse and corruption 

I appreciate your words and thanks for your contributions, all the best!!  

[Martin123]

The double standard is that I see people getting banned for ‘trolling’ or ‘posting low quality things’, and then there are members who get away with verbal abuse on a regular basis without it being taken seriously, as if it weren’t a bannable offence.

 

Yes you can block them, but it is unhelpful to cultivate an environment where rudeness, disrespect, and borderline abusive behaviour is tolerated.

 

This would however have to be also seen in the context of Leo (as he admitted himself) posting in a way that’s arrogant and obnoxious (which is disrespectful to the members).