Leo's toxic rhetoric and an inner conflict

[bejapuskas]

47 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Not sure I see what you're implying. The reason I specify truck driver is because many truck drivers and construction workers have a culture of talking about women however they'd like because there aren't usually aren't any women around them. He carried his habits of speaking about women home, no thinking about how it sounded and what messages his daughters took from it. 

Similarly, on an internet forum one often imagines that they are talking to a specific type of man, when in reality their words are being read by a huge variety of people, each taking their own personal take a ways from the same statement. 

As a parent I've caught myself doing the same thing many times, talking to an adult lost in the conversation, and completely forgetting that little ears are listening. 

@mandyjw  Oh I misinterpreted what you wanted to say. I was talking about the male driver culture of saying 'it's always a (blonde) woman when some accident happens on the road' and 'women should not legally own driving licenses'. Have you never heard this comment? I think many people believe that men are more clever in certain tasks, one of them being driving, which might be true I don't know. But also I think many women then adapt this belief and men also and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because of the fear that's felt by women. I've seen this issue being discussed in talks from transpeople (male -> female) who suddenly started feeling more uncertain whether they are right because men are just too confident and they always act like women are inferior.

[Leo Gura]

Unlocking this so people can air out their grievances.

[Martin123]

I've read through all the posts again and want to add something

First of all thanks to @Leo Gura for his openness.

Secondly, regarding the victim-blaming issue, which I believe was the biggest point of conflict and controversy (which actually wasn't my intention, but I can see how that would happen of course haha).

I can appreciate Leo's intention not wanting to drag the cop/cops in general through the mud. That is certainly a very conscious and mature outlook. In this way it's a great idea to support the cop or not call him a murderer, beautiful and lovely. All thumbs up from me.

 

but just to make it clear once and for all, what the victim blaming issue for me that lit up the red flags was:

'Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially at fault for the harm that befell them.' - wiki quote

 

To suggest that GF's fear was a self-fulfilling prophecy IS suggesting that he was partially at fault for the harm that befell him. So by definition, like it or not, it is a subtle victim blaming framework.

I didn't love all the hate I got for pointing this out, but it's the truth. I don't think Leo is an unconscious person, I think he's an amazing guy. But he does have a tendency to be dismissive, and dismissiveness can translate as blaming yourself and others for things that aren't really anyone's fault.

[seeking_brilliance]

@SirVladimir I want to do mushrooms with you ????

@Nahm ❤️

----------------------

I love that leo is a real person (?) never meet your hero if you are going to judge them, I suppose... I don't find his speech to be toxic but perhaps I also don't take offence to things that might even be offensive (if I cared). 

@Martin123 you're an awesome person and I hope you will stay despite some of Leo's (hurtful?) (off-putting?) (human?) statements. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Martin123]

7 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@Martin123 you're an awesome person and I hope you will stay despite some of Leo's (hurtful?) off-putting statements. 

Thank you, appreciate it. 

Due to Leo's responsiveness and the maturity of his responses, if I decide to leave and not come back, Leo probably won't be the reason.

[Origins]

@Leo Gura I didn't at all insult you to @Ananta. You have permission from me to view the history of the rather lack of conversation by inbox between myself and @Ananta if you like. I'm not going to bother dragging this on or even bother retorting with what I think under normal circumstances would be reasonable to retort with, things are no longer normal.

I know you'll probably agree with me in some way anyhow Leo so all good was just trying to peacefully objectively share my stance on the subject. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Origins

[Jacob Morres]

@wakeup

what is energetic work? i want to get into this 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[Martin123]

6 hours ago, Origins said:

@Leo Gura I didn't at all insult you to @Ananta. You have permission from me to view the history of the rather lack of conversation by inbox between myself and @Ananta if you like. I'm not going to bother dragging this on or even bother retorting with what I think under normal circumstances would be reasonable to retort with, things are no longer normal.

I know you'll probably agree with me in some way anyhow Leo so all good was just trying to peacefully objectively share my stance on the subject. 

bro can you please start a thread to weep about your own problems?

 

This is my weeping spot, don’t hijack my weeping place. My tears, my problems.

 

no wonder you getting warnings hijacking other people’s threads lol 

[Pallero]

@Martin123

I agree with you. And I thank you for speaking up about your feelings and this issue. (Unlike you, I also have my problems with this forum in general. Even though I've been a member of this forum from the beginning, I don't post much.)

I started watching actualized.org videos more than five years ago. I really liked the content! Leo is an excellent speaker and his videos were thorough, deep and interesting. Many of the videos opened my mind and my eyes. I found them and the exercises in them practical and useful. Then I purchased the life purpose course and it was likewise great! My personal opinion is that Leo's strength is intellectual understanding of complex topics, and speaking and explaining them in an interesting way. I didn't even notice time passing when I watched his videos. I feel like in the beginning Leo was just a normal guy and I found him relatable.

Then something started going wrong. I don't know what changed, but it's like Leo became more and more polarized. It was like he became angrier, more hateful. I started noticing him speaking to himself with phrases that made me cringe. Then in one video he spoke about killing his inner child, and he did this with such hate that I just couldn't take it anymore.

I have to say that I obviously have nothing against human emotions of anger or hate! Those are completely natural and everyone has them. It's just that when they are rejected and pushed into the subconscious mind, they magnify, and I feel like maybe this happened to Leo. It's like he's trying to hard to be spiritual that he's forgotten that you cannot run away from your humanness. Pain and hurt are not illusions. And spiritual bypassing is a rampant issue in spiritual circles.

He used to talk about the dangers or being judgmental, and radical open-mindedness. But to me, it's like he's become more judgmental and less open-minded than he used to be.

This is my personal problem with actualized.org and the reason why I feel sad about not being able to enjoy the content anymore. Because it really is amazing content.

[Martin123]

@Pallero I missed the part where Leo wanted to kill his inner child.

 

thats some emotional self-harm, damn. That’s ouchie. My inner child not happy hearing this. Very unhappy. Much love to Leo’s neglected inner child. 

[Pallero]

@Martin123

In case you want to look it up for yourself, if I remember correctly, it was this video, near the end maybe? Definitely after the middle. In the video about healing, no less! If I remember correctly, he was basically saying that he has to kill this part of himself in order to heal. He seemed to think that it was his inner child that was toxic and making him sick. Again, I don't remember it perfectly but this was just my impression.

 

[Pallero]

As long as I'm talking, I wanted to add something else. In the beginning Leo used to speak about persistense, hard work, emotional labor, patience, 10 000 hours, realistic expectations et cetera. All of this was very validating, because we know how annoying spirituality "quick fixes" or "magic cures" can be.

Then he found psychedelics and now he seems to think it's a solution to all problems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but psychedelics only give you a peek of a higher dimensional truth. Then you have to basically use your whole life embodying that truth. And that is hard work.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Pallero

[Martin123]

@Pallero I would agree that psychedelics aren’t useful unless you take enough time and space to integrate them, which if you keep tripping you seriously don’t and it’s cray. 
 

the way you integrate the truth is through integrating your emotional body which is the manifestation of your inner child, seeing the child as toxic only implies an adversarial relationship to your emotions and thus a great unwillingness to emotionally integrate the truth of who and what you and all of us are. 

[Martin123]

I’ll just go and do my inner child healing session today for myself and on behalf of everyone here ?? I’ll pick up the slack. 

[Martin123]

Not even kidding this is the song I’ve been singing since I woke up today haha how fitting!

 

[Origins]

@Martin123 I can assure I'll express no more energy communicating on your threads again nor towards yourself. And that's meant with no aggression, just a strong personal boundary now.

[Ananta]

22 hours ago, Origins said:

@Leo Gura I didn't at all insult you to @Ananta. You have permission from me to view the history of the rather lack of conversation by inbox between myself and @Ananta if you like.

Then, you have amnesia about the comment you made via PM regarding Leo's posts or you have used the edit feature and removed it. 

Pm Leo with your complaints and stop posting here about them.

Thank you

[Gesundheit]

48 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

I’ll just go and do my inner child healing session today for myself

More like your projecting middle-aged lesbian healing. No offence and good luck.

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

More like your projecting middle-aged lesbian healing. No offence and good luck.

This is highly uncalled for sir, I’ll give you a report for verbal attack, if any mod cares to have a look at it. 

[Guest SirVladimir]

11 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@SirVladimir I want to do mushrooms with you ????

The Atlantic Ocean Between Us...