Leo's toxic rhetoric and an inner conflict

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, Dryas said:

It helps explain the subsequent action taken by the cop and perhaps better understanding his perspective

It helps understand that you took your gun that was given to you to serve and protect others and you ended the life of another human being.
THe only understanding necessary is the understanding that this has to stop. That's all that we need to understand.
 

 

2 minutes ago, Dryas said:

(again, not justifying it).

You say you're not, but you are. Sometimes people do this thing where they say 'I don't wanna justify' and then they do. They say 'I don't wanna be dismissive' After saying something dismissive.

How misleading!

It's just to soften the blow of what you're doing, but if you have to soften the blow of something that is destructive, the solution isn't a 'softening', it is a 'full stop' to that behavior. 

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Hi Everyone, I have something to share, this is more about my inner emotional process of coming to terms with the inner conflict I keep feeling.

First of all, I love serving the evolution of everyone here with anything I am able to offer anyone seeking to improve/heal/awaken or surrender and make peace with. It's such a joy for me because I am the recipient of the positive quality of anything that comes through me for another person, no matter whether they are able to receive it or not.

That is why I love this place, because there are people who are ready and willing to heal and grow, and thus my abilities are put to a good use of meeting other people's needs for expansion. I am not in a place in my life right now where I'd be able to or had the energy to start and sustain my own platform for whomever would be interested, and so this is a great opportunity for me to still contribute, while still having enough energy to preserve for myself and my ongoing healing and awakening process.

But I can't get behind anything Leo says/does here and it makes me feel as if I was a silent ally to something I fundamentally disagree with, and find incredibly destructive.

It began with Leo posting a bunch of things in the dating/relationships sub-forum where the quality of the content was that of a 15 year old horny boy, rather than an awakened being.

Then I found the George Floyd topics, where Leo blatantly started victim shaming the poor guy.

Then I saw Leo dismiss the things that called him out and pointed out his toxic tendencies, and he accused them of self-bias, and said to me himself 'oh this is the big me talking, the GOD that is all of us', as if Leo had no personal accountability for the things he's saying here behind the excuse of 'being enlightened'. Here's some news, the BIG LEO is all of us, therefore hiding behind the bigger self is as ridiculous as pretending someone else's mother is really your own.

It's a massive spiritual ego-trip, and it is a complete conflict of interests for me, because the more toxic this place gets, the more I feel like I am a silent ally, and the less I find it productive for me to even offer anything to anyone, because most of it gets just drowned in a pile of dismissal and blame-games pretending to be spiritual.

 

May I also point out that while thankfully this isn't a cult, having a spiritual teacher unwilling to acknowledge his massive blind-spots is extremely unfortunate.

Maybe other people feel the same way, if anyone feels similarly, may this be a permission to honor your feelings and intuition. I'm still somewhat emotionally attached to this forum so I don't know how easy leaving for good for me would be, I had left for quite some time but I came back because I still found joy in serving others. And now that motivation is withering away once again. It is not that I don't find it lovely to serve, it is that I find it equally important not to be an enabler and a silent ally to toxicity.

Whether I disappear forever, or this is just me venting here, thank you for being here and being on this journey with me, whether you feel like it or not, on the journey of healing and awakening, we are all in it together no matter the roles being played by each of us.

Love to all of you guys! 

Light's purpose is to shine on to darkness. The more toxic a place is, the more it needs your lightwork bro. That's why I had a 3am discussion with a satanist on here and managed to put a bunch of light seeds into his mind, even if he doesn't realise it. We are not here to shine light on to light.

Ofcourse Leo and everyone else knows they are not perfect and there is always darkness that needs some light. But the thing about darkness, it is too dark to be seen by itself, so its good to have honest people to point it out.

I do think however that most of the things Leo does on this forum are to create some sort of effect in the student who is following, like a Zen teacher - creating paradoxes and showing detachment from egoic behaviour. Also maybe showing that egoic behaviour is not really egoic behaviour? lol Its too meta for me this one.

It's important for people not to believe what anyone says willy-nilly ... Even if its Leo! Like I am constantly putting forward my understanding and don't shy away from pointing out bullshit when I smell it. It's all part of the dance. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Dodo

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

Light's purpose is to shine on to darkness. The more toxic a place is, the more it needs your lightwork bro. That's why I had a 3am discussion with a satanist on here and managed to put a bunch light seeds into his mind, even if he doesn't realise it. We are not here to shine light on to light.

With this attitude you're going to make yourself into an emotional and an energetic punching bag where you're going to take on other people's emotional patterning and energy, in the name of healing, but the only thing it will do is recycle old patterns, and you will need more toxic people in your life to prove to you how 'well you can heal them', while simultaneously being their victim, instead of saying 'What you're doing is not okay, I am leaving as a way of letting you know that if you want the healing benefit of my light, you first need to find the awareness and self-responsibility to be aware of your own light and never to take out your pain on another being no matter how hurt you are.'

[Dryas]

13 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

It helps understand that you took your gun that was given to you to serve and protect others and you ended the life of another human being.
THe only understanding necessary is the understanding that this has to stop. That's all that we need to understand.

Okay..? I guess that would be the ideal situation. Cops need better training. The way it is now, this is bound to happen, What do you think the protests are about?

13 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

You say you're not, but you are.

C'mon.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Dryas

[Someone here]

Ofcourse try to become a celebrity and see how that works.. Leo must throw away some controversy here and there.. That's how you get attention and stay in the picture. 

[Dodo]

12 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

With this attitude you're going to make yourself into an emotional and an energetic punching bag where you're going to take on other people's emotional patterning and energy, in the name of healing, but the only thing it will do is recycle old patterns, and you will need more toxic people in your life to prove to you how 'well you can heal them', while simultaneously being their victim, instead of saying 'What you're doing is not okay, I am leaving as a way of letting you know that if you want the healing benefit of my light, you first need to find the awareness and self-responsibility to be aware of your own light and never to take out your pain on another being no matter how hurt you are.'

That's where nondual awareness comes in. This would be a problem for me if my identity is tied up with this vessel or some entity within this vessel or controlling this vessel. Lol! There is this nonduality trick where your entire experience is happening to nothingness itself.

Meaning that you can offer your entire experience to g0d, it's God/Nothingness (beyond the labels) doing everything from this nondual state. Shine light, without fearing, because you are not what it appears. If you were something, then I get why you wouldn't want to get all this negative energy... But negative energy cannot stick to emptiness just like water cannot stick to a lotus.

It's all about whether your identity is within the experience, or the empty field surrounding and knowing deeply every experience. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Dodo

[Shin]

@Martin123

[mandyjw]

17 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Light's purpose is to shine on to darkness. The more toxic a place is, the more it needs your lightwork bro. That's why I had a 3am discussion with a satanist on here and managed to put a bunch of light seeds into his mind, even if he doesn't realise it. We are not here to shine light on to light.

Ofcourse Leo and everyone else knows they are not perfect and there is always darkness that needs some light. But the thing about darkness, it is too dark to be seen by itself, so its good to have honest people to point it out.

I do think however that most of the things Leo does on this forum are to create some sort of effect in the student who is following, like a Zen teacher - creating paradoxes and showing detachment from egoic behaviour. Also maybe showing that egoic behaviour is not really egoic behaviour? lol Its too meta for me this one 

 Well, Satan or Lucifer is the angel of light, so light seeds might not help. 

[Fran11]

A common problem is that when you have a perspective which you know is highly concious (like acknowledging systemic racism), then when someone (altough agreeing in the big picture, like Leo with racism) points out micro things which are not conducent to reiforcing that perspective, instead of recognizing it as a broader micro+macro analysis, the mind just tends to misinterpret that as belonging to the opposite pole of your perspective (Leo "neglecting racism" in this case).

That's why it's also so difficult to make a constructive critique of some elements of liberalism without being unthoughfuly taken as a conservative. Which I have experienced.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Fran11

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 Well, Satan or Lucifer is the angel of light, so light seeds might not help. 

Not the light I am talking about I guess  Satanists can twist and turn things, making you think anything. Of course their religion is not about love and light. It's about hatred and darkness and lies.

So if they lied that Satan is an angel of light, its not something they wouldn't do in the name of confusion. You damn well understand that a paedophile that talks about his desires of gaslighting children while they perform sexual favours for him is not someone in touch with love and light, my friend. Please! Never say this again, even if its written in scripture somewhere. Don't trust what a damn book says, you have your own divine connection within. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Dodo

[Fran11]

About arrogance, if one judges that some spiritual teacher or practicioner has these elements, the most conscious and productive thing to do is to use it as a mirror and search for those traits in yourself.

Trying too hard to prove his/her arrogance to that person, or to someone else, can come from one's own ego's desire to show superiority.

If someome really is arrogant, it is more concious not to take it personally, and to show compassion instead, because that person is suffering from a very narrow and limited state of conscience, at least in that moment.

If I am arrogant, I will suffer life's inevitable blows to my self-image much more and my spiritual progress will be limited. It's my loss really.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Fran11

[Thestarguitarist14]

29 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Not the light I am talking about I guess  Satanists can twist and turn things, making you think anything. Of course their religion is not about love and light. It's about hatred and darkness and lies.

So if they lied that Satan is an angel of light, its not something they wouldn't do in the name of confusion. You damn well understand that a paedophile that talks about his desires of gaslighting children while they perform sexual favours for him is not someone in touch with love and light, my friend. Please! Never say this again, even if its written in scripture somewhere. Don't trust what a damn book says, you have your own divine connection within. 

No offense, but you strike me as someone who does a lot of posturing and repeating what you hear instead of feeling deeply into it for yourself.

[meow_meow]

6 hours ago, Martin123 said:

May I also point out that while thankfully this isn't a cult, having a spiritual teacher unwilling to acknowledge his massive blind-spots is extremely unfortunate.

Yes, @Martin123 , I've thought of this more or less similary.

What I've personally noticed is that a lot of people on this forum / Leos followers are instantly negatively judging masculine, financially successful men, examples: Elliott Hulse, Curtis Jackson (50cent).

As soon as something that is popping up about these people, users here are instantly ready to lynch these guys.
I can't find the exact topic but I recall Leo writing something similar like "Macho bullshit, I expected better from Eliott Hulse etc"

50cent wrote a self help book
This is a good example also.

[DocWatts]

Leo's someone who has hundreds of hours of content on a wide range of topics; if you don't end up disagreeing with him on some portion of his ideas or worldview, it means that you're accepting his ideas uncritically, and should probably seek to find and incorporate more outside views in to your lexicon.

Edited October 10, 2020 by DocWatts

[Dodo]

57 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

No offense, but you strike me as someone who does a lot of posturing and repeating what you hear instead of feeling deeply into it for yourself.

@Martin123 look he is using the dynamic also  "No offence" and then proceeds to try to offend  

@Thestarguitarist14 yeah don't worry about me taking offense, my identity is not what you think it is. And I know we've had disagreements in the past, but you have to let it go homie.

I am hoping to offend so that it shows you where your identification is, so you may have the chance to dissolve it. Thanks for doing the same for me <3 

By divine connection I meant that you have your own sense of what is right and what is wrong. And yeah, go ahead and take offense with what I said, but you should be using all this effort to bring light into the world of a satanist instead.

Priorities. But I know you are still hurting from the time I destroyed your idea of what law of attraction is, by using your own definition to prove how it is wrong. That's why you are having this negative reaction to what I am saying, at least that's what I project - that's how hurt egos work. 

You are a follower of the law of attraction and say that everything that happens is your doing - good or bad. This includes my comment right now. I could go find and quote exactly, but I'm paraphrasing. So if you really follow your law, you should not have any resistance to my comment, it is exactly what you've attracted, at least from your worldview. Why are you fighting what you attract? 

I used the same method to destroy the idea the satanist was putting forward : The law of reversal. I said to him, if you apply your law, if you really were a follower of your law, you would reverse all that you are saying  x) So if he really follows his law, he would be a saint. <3 

Sirs, my bullshit detector is ON. Only truth beyond this point  I am not here to show an image. All you know of me is some forum identity. Why would I want to look good in some random person's eyes. I am here only to dispel ignorance and speak for Truth. Because God knows your ignorant laws do not. 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Dodo

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Fran11 said:

A common problem is that when you have a perspective which you know is highly concious (like acknowledging systemic racism), then when someone (altough agreeing in the big picture, like Leo with racism) points out micro things which are not conducent to reiforcing that perspective, instead of recognizing it as a broader micro+macro analysis, the mind just tends to misinterpret that as belonging to the opposite pole of your perspective (Leo "neglecting racism" in this case).

This is part of the challenge of zooming in and zooming out. Each person has an ability range and preference for zooming in and out. It can be difficult of zoom out-ers to communicate with zoom in-ers. When a zoom out-er zooms in - it's important that they use phrases like "x is part of the problem", "x contributes to the problem" etc. For example, we could say "Floyd's fear was a contributing factor in the situation". This is a good balance because we are not getting into the weeds of all the variables in the big picture, yet we are also not dismissing all of those variables. It is very different to say "Floyd's fear caused a self-fulfilling prophecy" because that dismisses all other factors - Zoom out-ers should know better than that. 

Imagine a soccer team loses a game and someone says "we lost because one of our players got injured in the game". That is too far zoomed in. A zoom out-er can see the bigger picture and should frame it as "the injury to our player was a contributing factor to us losing the game" when speaking to someone too far zoomed in. We aren't getting into the complex variables, yet we are also acknowledging that complex variables exist. Zoom out-ers should be mindful not to fall victim to dismissive categorization. 

[_Archangel_]

7 hours ago, Martin123 said:

May I also point out that while thankfully this isn't a cult, having a spiritual teacher unwilling to acknowledge his massive blind-spots is extremely unfortunate.

Leo is usually very honest and frequently speak about his, limitations, flaws and biases, in his videos and in the forum. So this critique doesn't hold ground.

 

7 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Then I found the George Floyd topics, where Leo blatantly started victim shaming the poor guy.

you are over-exagerating. For what i remember He simply pointed out that Floyd resisted authority before his death. Which is true.
If we are to analize the situation, we cannot just remove this factor from the picture, because with correct conduct things could have gone differently.

 

7 hours ago, Martin123 said:

It began with Leo posting a bunch of things in the dating/relationships sub-forum where the quality of the content was that of a 15 year old horny boy, rather than an awakened being.

You might be even Jesus Christ, but if you give dating tips you must play on the ego's ground.
What spiritual advice would you give to a 17yo that doesn't know how to convince his crush to copulate
 

[M4sti]

@Forestluv So your only problem is the language he used or that he did not clarify from which perspective he was making his claim. 

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, M4sti said:

@Forestluv So your only problem is the language he used or that he did not clarify from which perspective he was making his claim. 

In this situation, and in the context of zooming in and zooming out, yes. Yet there are other situations in which a simply binary frame has value. 

[Jacob Morres]

9 hours ago, Martin123 said:

having a spiritual teacher unwilling to acknowledge his massive blind-spots is extremely unfortunate.

In ego development part 3 he does talk about this