Why is eating meat "bad" or less evolved lets say?

[integral]

9 minutes ago, datamonster said:

If you can swing your pendulum from vegan straight to carnivore, you were never vegan.

Veganism is an ethic. It's about your values and sharing the recognition that animals are sentient beings that want to live as much as we do. This is your core value. Core values are not something you change like your underwear.

What your saying sounds like you're just jumping on whatever is trendy right now. Today it's veganism, tomorrow carnivore diet.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again: Since veganism is an ethic and not a diet, it is utterly absurd to talk about it in terms of health. When someone says he is a vegan that tells you nothing about his actual diet. He could be eating nothing but french fries and Oreos all day and he'd still be vegan.

 

When you experience the worst suffering of your life, complete despair, bed ridden for years, a whole new ethical code will be born. 

[integral]

13 minutes ago, datamonster said:

What your saying sounds like you're just jumping on whatever is trendy right now. Today it's veganism, tomorrow carnivore diet.

 

This is experimentation, trail and error with detailed notes. 

[integral]

List all the ways this can be interpreted? hahah

Edited October 13, 2020 by integral

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@PurpleTree Took a month for most of my life to return while carnivore, but it took a few years of testing and experimenting to figure out what was causing the food intolerances and how to resolve it. Misinformation...

Can you elaborate a little bit on what you had to elimante and what are staples in your diet? I'm interested because i have some gut issues too sometimes.

[integral]

@PurpleTree Make a post in the health channel, there are alot of people that will help/give good advice. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by integral

[PurpleTree]

^ eh probly not, i've already read enough about food sensitivities and diets in general imo on the internets, reddit, articles etc.

was just wondering about your experience but it's cool

 

 

back to the arguments boysss 

[integral]

@PurpleTree ah thats a different situation. 

 

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Can you elaborate a little bit on what you had to elimante and what are staples in your diet? I'm interested because i have some gut issues too sometimes.

Had to eliminate everything at first except beef and salt. This is base line. The start of the elimination diet. After eating beef for 2-3 days, pick a food that is suspected to be an issue and add it, notice any changes in digestion, mood, energy levels, sleep...

Take notes of results. In general doe, increase bodily mind connection/awareness, when ever digestives issues come up take notice and try to figure out what was eaten that caused it.

Current staples in my diet are: beef, liver, heart, kidney, brain, bone marrow... the entire animal.

Liver and kidney no more then once a week (excessive vitamins).

https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulSaladinoMD/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/KenDBerryMD/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/NutritionalHealingA2Center/videos

Check these guys out.

Also exercise, sleep hygiene, meditation/stress levels play a huge role in digestion. The combination of this is more important that what is actually being eaten. 

Get a hair mineral analysis test asap, there are more test in other posts that are also great.

[Tarzan]

@integral Ah, gut issues, not as familiar as I'd like to be (I'm not a professional nutritionist, a professional youtube nutrition enthusiast lol, as related to plant-based and exercise-nutrition). Have you checked out gojiman? Or Vegetable Police? They seemed to have similar issues.

[Scholar]

It is very interesting that the devil always has to justify his current behaviour. You don't see a carnivore who thinks it would be better to eat lab grown meat, 99% of them have constructed an ideology out of their survival problems.

The same was true for past societies. Survival was threatened to such a degree that they accepted things like slavery. Yet, they didn't simply accept it is some sort of sad but necessary consequence. They instead created an ideology that fully justifies slavery, that makes slavery good.

 

This is a hallmark of lower stages. At higher stages we might accept the evil we are causing for self-preserverence, yet we lack the necessity to create an ideology that justifies it beyond our own selfishness. We can see our selfishness and accept it.

We wouldn't need to say that veganism is unhealthy for all people, simply that it happened to be unhealthy for us. We wouldn't need to say that it's fine to kill all animals, we could say it that we are willing to kill the least problematic beings for our health. We wouldn't need to deny science and create a contrarian position that deems a plant based diet to be invalid. We could in general support veganism, we could encourage everyone to adopt it while recognizing that our issues are unique.

 

But all of this is not the case in the carnivore movement. They are dogmatic, in their way to preserve their self-image, they are willing to go any length. Infact, what is so clearly a dysfunction within them, they now accept as some sort of noble norm. That they can't consume plants because humans are not made to consume plants. It is not because they are incapable of consuming them for some reason like gut issues, no, humans are carnivores and everyone ought to be a  carnivore if they want to thrive.

 

All of it a play of identity. Nothing new.

[StephenK]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

We wouldn't need to say that veganism is unhealthy for all people, simply that it happened to be unhealthy for us. We wouldn't need to say that it's fine to kill all animals, we could say it that we are willing to kill the least problematic beings for our health. We wouldn't need to deny science and create a contrarian position that deems a plant based diet to be invalid. We could in general support veganism, we could encourage everyone to adopt it while recognizing that our issues are unique.

This is a good point. One thing that seems to be missing from the entire debate around diet is that we may each have unique physiological responses to food, based on our genetics. I suppose we could get to the point in the future where we have diets based on our DNA which would allow us to more easily navigate the ethical territory pertaining to meat consumption. 

[Scholar]

39 minutes ago, StephenK said:

This is a good point. One thing that seems to be missing from the entire debate around diet is that we may each have unique physiological responses to food, based on our genetics. I suppose we could get to the point in the future where we have diets based on our DNA which would allow us to more easily navigate the ethical territory pertaining to meat consumption. 

It seems like the people who claim they have such unique genetics are unwilling to consume what primates are designed to consume, namely insects. You don't see any insectovore communities, despite the fact that primates do consume insects, and do not consume for example mammals in most instances.

People consume cows instead of mealworms, this tells you everything you need to know.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

It seems like the people who claim they have such unique genetics are unwilling to consume what primates are designed to consume, namely insects. You don't see any insectovore communities, despite the fact that primates do consume insects, and do not consume for example mammals in most instances.

People consume cows instead of mealworms, this tells you everything you need to know.

Tried insects, they had a really bad aftertaste, maybe it was just that certain product which was bad.

I'll try them again.

 

 

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Tried insects, they had a really bad aftertaste, maybe it was just that certain product which was bad.

I'll try them again.

If it is because of taste, then the reason why you kill the cow is because of taste, not any of the other reasons you have given. If maturity is achieved, this will be recognized and accepted. And once it is accepted, your mind can start to resolve this problem if it remains a problem to you.

[PurpleTree]

55 minutes ago, Scholar said:

If it is because of taste, then the reason why you kill the cow is because of taste, not any of the other reasons you have given. If maturity is achieved, this will be recognized and accepted. And once it is accepted, your mind can start to resolve this problem if it remains a problem to you.

It has to taste decent at least for me, those crickets were unfortunately not really edible for me at that point.

I do eat some "meat alternatives" sometimes like quorn which isn't bad at all taste wise.

i'd also try lab meat if it's tested and "safe"

 

 

ah thats a different situation. 

 

Had to eliminate everything at first except beef and salt. This is base line. The start of the elimination diet. After eating beef for 2-3 days, pick a food that is suspected to be an issue and add it, notice any changes in digestion, mood, energy levels, sleep...

Take notes of results. In general doe, increase bodily mind connection/awareness, when ever digestives issues come up take notice and try to figure out what was eaten that caused it.

Current staples in my diet are: beef, liver, heart, kidney, brain, bone marrow... the entire animal.

Liver and kidney no more then once a week (excessive vitamins).

https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulSaladinoMD/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/KenDBerryMD/videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/NutritionalHealingA2Center/videos

Check these guys out.

Also exercise, sleep hygiene, meditation/stress levels play a huge role in digestion. The combination of this is more important that what is actually being eaten. 

Get a hair mineral analysis test asap, there are more test in other posts that are also great.

 

 

thnx btw, will check it out.

Edited October 14, 2020 by PurpleTree

[integral]

10 hours ago, Tarzan said:

@integral Ah, gut issues, not as familiar as I'd like to be (I'm not a professional nutritionist, a professional youtube nutrition enthusiast lol, as related to plant-based and exercise-nutrition). Have you checked out gojiman? Or Vegetable Police? They seemed to have similar issues.

Yes! subscribed to everyone, its interesting comparing all the conflicting ideas between channels. Start to notice they all have unique insights that the others did not have yet, or are blind to, Seeing different parts of the same puzzle. 

Check this guy out: https://www.youtube.com/c/nabilinho/videos

unique take, not to worry hes not carnivore

 

Check this perspective. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by integral

[integral]

3 hours ago, Scholar said:

But all of this is not the case in the carnivore movement. They are dogmatic, in their way to preserve their self-image, they are willing to go any length. Infact, what is so clearly a dysfunction within them, they now accept as some sort of noble norm. That they can't consume plants because humans are not made to consume plants. It is not because they are incapable of consuming them for some reason like gut issues, no, humans are carnivores and everyone ought to be a  carnivore if they want to thrive.

 

Are you sure? What if the carnivores cared more? What if they where taking even more responsibility? 

Edited October 14, 2020 by integral

[Village]

6 hours ago, Scholar said:

It is very interesting that the devil always has to justify his current behaviour. You don't see a carnivore who thinks it would be better to eat lab grown meat, 99% of them have constructed an ideology out of their survival problems.

The same was true for past societies. Survival was threatened to such a degree that they accepted things like slavery. Yet, they didn't simply accept it is some sort of sad but necessary consequence. They instead created an ideology that fully justifies slavery, that makes slavery good.

 

This is a hallmark of lower stages. At higher stages we might accept the evil we are causing for self-preserverence, yet we lack the necessity to create an ideology that justifies it beyond our own selfishness. We can see our selfishness and accept it.

We wouldn't need to say that veganism is unhealthy for all people, simply that it happened to be unhealthy for us. We wouldn't need to say that it's fine to kill all animals, we could say it that we are willing to kill the least problematic beings for our health. We wouldn't need to deny science and create a contrarian position that deems a plant based diet to be invalid. We could in general support veganism, we could encourage everyone to adopt it while recognizing that our issues are unique.

 

But all of this is not the case in the carnivore movement. They are dogmatic, in their way to preserve their self-image, they are willing to go any length. Infact, what is so clearly a dysfunction within them, they now accept as some sort of noble norm. That they can't consume plants because humans are not made to consume plants. It is not because they are incapable of consuming them for some reason like gut issues, no, humans are carnivores and everyone ought to be a  carnivore if they want to thrive.

 

All of it a play of identity. Nothing new.

Why would anyone want to eat anything that was made in a lab? If you wish to - bon apetite. But don't bash other humans for eating human food.

I wouldn't call viewing nature as evil a "high stage". If you think eating another animal is evil, you don't understand love.

If you think veganism can be healthy, you don't understand nutrition. I already went over this above. If you actually cared for human health and not spiritual ego, you wouldn't support veganism either. You'd pay some attention to the MILLIONS of ex-vegans who quit due to health issues, and to the MILLIONS of vegans who currently suffer from anemia, ruined gut and various other issues. And it's not good for the environment, for god's sake, just look up monocrops. You kill more animals as a vegan than I do as a carnivore and you destroy the earth.

A play of identity indeed. How does it feel to have a moral pedestal to us low stage flesh eaters? I'm sure your spiritual ego loves it.

[PurpleTree]

Why is this turning into a carnivore vs vegan thing?

Why do extremists tend to take over discussions?

We need a strong center not these extremes  

[integral]

1 hour ago, datamonster said:

Word.

What if Hitler was actually the good guy?

Where would we with out hitler? What if hitler indirectly prevented world war 3? 

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Village said:

Why would anyone want to eat anything that was made in a lab? If you wish to - bon apetite. But don't bash other humans for eating human food.

I wouldn't call viewing nature as evil a "high stage". If you think eating another animal is evil, you don't understand love.

If you think veganism can be healthy, you don't understand nutrition. I already went over this above. If you actually cared for human health and not spiritual ego, you wouldn't support veganism either. You'd pay some attention to the MILLIONS of ex-vegans who quit due to health issues, and to the MILLIONS of vegans who currently suffer from anemia, ruined gut and various other issues. And it's not good for the environment, for god's sake, just look up monocrops. You kill more animals as a vegan than I do as a carnivore and you destroy the earth.

A play of identity indeed. How does it feel to have a moral pedestal to us low stage flesh eaters? I'm sure your spiritual ego loves it.

lol

• Growing lab grown meat would be more compassionate and ethical.
• It would be most certainly healthier due to us being able to control for factors like cholesterol.
• Antibiotic resistant bacteria would not be a problem anymore because we wouldn't be using antibiotics on animals anymore, which is actually a serious problem we currently have. There is a possible future in which anti-biotics are completely useless, in which human beings die from basic infections as they did 200 years ago.
• It would stop one of the most significant drivers of environmental destruction. A significant amount of your so called monocrops are being fed to factory farmed animals. Infact, animal agriculture makes it impossible for us to adopt any other means of crop production but monocrops. Demand is too high for us to do any healthy kind of agriculture. Infact, if demand in Asia keeps rising and meet western standards, we will need multiple planets just so we can grow the crops to feed the animals. With grazing animals this becomes even worse, infact we would require multiple planets to meet the already present demand. Why do you think are the amazon forests being burned? They are making room for the cows so they can export them to China. If this continues, there will be no significant forest left on this planet in the next 100 years.
• It would not necessitate to put human beings in the position of having to kill other sentient beings as a job, preventing them from experiencing terrible PTSD very similar to what war veterans experience. Having to kill hundreds of animals every day while expecting these people to remain psychologically intact and treat the animals respectfully is absurd.
• There is no evidence that millions of vegans are anemic, have a ruined gut and therefore cannot continue to be vegan. All the studies we have seen so far indicate the opposite.

 

 

I don't know, how does it feel to have a moral pedestal to those low stage slave owners? I'm sure that is all just spiritual ego. "If you think raping and killing humans is evil, you don't understand Love." There is no point in bringing Love into any of this, other than you attempting to justify your own identity with your spiritual beliefs.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Scholar