Why is eating meat "bad" or less evolved lets say?

[Village]

16 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Also if i could stop mass animal factory farming today then i would, i think that's overdoing it by a long shot.

 

But also some things like Avocados which most vegans love are environmentally very problematic for the "carbon footprint" etc. they consume masses of water and need to be imported to Europe for example. Woodlands and forests get cut down to grow them etc.

Agriculture as a whole is very destructive to the environment, and ironically kills more animals than any slaughterhouse.

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

That's generally a problem for most Tier 1 stages on spiral dynamics. Stage blue people will have different morals than a stage green person for example. Your morals start adapting as you climb up the spiral. A culture which is based on stage blue will have different morals than a culture which is based on stage orange for example.

I don't know much about spiral dynamics but it does have something to do with "stages of development" right?

So you do think people who aren't eating meat are more evolved if they have a higher stage of morals?

[shallotsometimes]

@PurpleTree Yes, there is absolutely no need for factory farming. At the same time, we would not be able to feed meat to all the meat-eaters on the planet if animals were all raised on pastures. Takes up too much land.

We're also overfishing our oceans which is screwing with the entire ecosystem. And I think everyone knows how terrible beef is for the environment with all of the methane released and water used up... Stop eating beef at least please yall.

Also, have you guys heard of pig shit lagoons? Fucking gross. Pigs poop 8-10x more than humans on a daily basis. And of course these lagoons are negatively affecting POC communities.

[commie]

25 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I agree that morals and culture aren't the same thing, I wasn't talking for myself. But it's true for most average people.

In my experience, most people do not have the morals of their culture. They more pretend to, more or less effectively and more or less artfully.

The problem with moral relativism is simply that it denies the self-evident moral absolute: your morals.

[Parththakkar12]

32 minutes ago, integral said:

what do you eat? 

I'm Indian. Here in India, it's very easy to be vegan! It's very easy to make good Indian food that's vegan. Will have all the nutrients you need.

There's a lot of Hindu religious traditions here that are heavily identified with being vegetarian. Cow-worshipping is a thing here because of which beef either is illegal or was illegal here. I wanted beef to be legal when I was a meat-eater!

Edited October 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Village]

5 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@Village

What case, you're the one who stated imaginary nutrient depletion after 10 years in vegans. Do you have any scientific logic behind it? Any research? Don't give me garbage articles. Explain the nutrients and their metabolizing process and how that would lead to deficiency after 10 years.

Do you even understand that there are people who have been vegan for more than 10 years or is that are conspiracy in your mind?

I already listed the nutrients: Vitamins A, D, K2, B12; EPA, DHA; creatine, carnitine, carnosine, taurine; heme-iron, CLA, CoQ10; cholesterol. Also check out the toxins which veganism does not lack: Phytic acid in grains, nuts and seeds; oxalates in leafy greens; lectins in beans; sugar.

All the years prior to veganism you'd been storing fat-soluble vitamins (shocker) in your fat, and in your liver. Only water-soluble vitamins must be consumed on a daily basis as your body doesn't store them.

I know there are 10-year vegans - my sister is one - I said that those are statistically rare because most don't survive so long on starvation diet and go back to eating animal products.

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I'm Indian. Here in India, it's very easy to be vegan! It's very easy to make good Indian food that's vegan.

India has some delicious vegetarian and vegan food for sure. Italy has great vegetarian food too.

[integral]

@PurpleTree Spiral dynamics playlist

@commie

 

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

The biggest issue i have towards ending my meat consumption, is that im afraid vegetarian diet would malnourish the body since i enjoy exercise such as calisthenics, running and sports in general.

I've been meaning to research this for a while now, since i am being more and more drawn towards limiting the meat consumption. But like i've said, my hesitation stems from fear of malnutrition.

Does anyone have any knowledge or resources to share in regards to this?

[Village]

1 minute ago, Jaka Pirs Hanzic said:

The biggest issue i have towards ending my meat consumption, is that im afraid vegetarian diet would malnourish the body since i enjoy exercise such as calisthenics, running and sports in general.

I've been meaning to research this for a while now, since i am being more and more drawn towards limiting the meat consumption. But like i've said, my hesitation stems from fear of malnutrition.

Does anyone have any knowledge or resources to share in regards to this?

Read my comments above.

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Jaka Pirs Hanzic said:

The biggest issue i have towards ending my meat consumption, is that im afraid vegetarian diet would malnourish the body since i enjoy exercise such as calisthenics, running and sports in general.

I've been meaning to research this for a while now, since i am being more and more drawn towards limiting the meat consumption. But like i've said, my hesitation stems from fear of malnutrition.

Does anyone have any knowledge or resources to share in regards to this?

If that's the only issue you can give the vegetarian or vegan diet a try and as soon as you're feeling worse you can go back to meat.

[integral]

@Parththakkar12 this is what digestive problems looks like

https://www.actualized.org/insights/my-health-situation

[Village]

2 minutes ago, datamonster said:

@Village Don't forget that most people in general are not exactly healthy, not just vegans. 

The thing with veganism is that it's not a diet, it's an ethic. Therefore, most vegans don't care about nutrition. They just don't want to support animal abuse. 

I encourage you to distinguish between veganism and eating a whole foods plant based diet, which are two completely different things.

Most people already eat a plant-based diet with some low quality fried meat here and there.

Agriculture kills more animals than any slaughterhouse. Not caring for nutrition means they don't love themselves, hence they'll struggle in loving others too. The role veganism plays here is merely egoistical, it gives one an imaginary moral pedestal through the façade of compassion, while in reality they're hungry and angry people. It's too sad and too funny.

[integral]

@datamonster @neutralempty When you guys did the experiment of eating nothing but meat and salt for a month, how did you feel? 

[integral]

@neutralempty I guess this means it didnt happen. There was no trial and error. No scientific method. A switch to veganism took place at the beginning of your health journey and nothing else was attempted? 

[Village]

@neutralempty

30 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Half of it are non-essential nutrients which your body creates yourself, the other ones are found in plants.  With the exception of B12, which can be easily supplemented.

 

You produce enough cholesterol to survive, but not enough to generate any significant amount of vitamin D from sunlight (cholesterol is the hormone precursor), or any decent amount of testosterone, hence the soy voice.

Vitamin A: Beta-carotene to retinol (actual vitamin A) conversion rate is poor and declines as you age, and some populations cannot make the conversion at all.

Vitamin D: Touched on that above.

Vitamin K2 (MK-4 form): None. Supposedly generated by your gut, but not in a sufficient quantity for optimal health, as with the other non-essential nutrients. Otherwise you'd never in a hundred years have tooth decay or calcification of the arteries. Highly missing not only in vegans btw.

EPA & DHA: Nada. Do you know the ALA conversion rate? 1-5% to EPA, 0-0.5% to DHA. By eating so many nuts you'd reach the hospital long before you reach the recommended daily amount. And seeds are indigestible anyway.

B12: By taking supplements you basically prove that veganism is malnutrition.

30 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

People that take psychedelics are statistically rare, therefore psychedelics are poisons!

Have you actually ever listened to ex-vegans about why they quit? There are THOUSANDS of ex-vegan stories available on Youtube. It wrecks their health.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Village

[Village]

20 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Did it ever occur to your mind that these slaughterhouse animals have also been raised via plant agriculture?

 

11 minutes ago, datamonster said:

No not at all. The standard American diet is not even close to being whole or plant based.

This is getting a little bit ridiculous now. What do you think are most of crops we grow used for? 

You don't have to buy factory-farmed meat. Actual farms do exist, y'know?

I don't see how a chunk of meat fried in vegetable oil squashed by two large chunks of bread and some veggies, with a side of fried potatoes is not plant-based.

[integral]

@neutralempty I thoroughly experimented not murdering children. Aka "Veganism". 

@datamonster @neutralempty There is more then morality involved in making sense of the world. Eating nothing but meat for a month, take notice of how the body feels/energy levels/cognitive function. Then your beliefs will have some foundation. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@Village Its going to be a mindfuck when they realize the carnivores put hard work into this and are not pleasure seeking immoral devils.    

[Village]

@datamonster @neutralempty

19 minutes ago, datamonster said:

What are you trying to say? Farm animals like to be forcefully impregnated and murdered, or what?

Yeah, such as love and compassion for your fellow earthlings.

Nor do they like getting eaten by a wolf. Don't try to "fix" nature.

18 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

1) Not true.

2) Not true either

3) Not true either

4) Not true as well, the conversion rate increases the less EPA & DHA you intake, plus a high conversion rate is not necessary. You get enough.

5) How?

Sure. And I have also listened to non-ex-vegans. And also to nutritionists and also have been vegan for 8 years.

God, provide one argument, lol.

4) Do you have the ALA numbers for me? And what about the horrible omega-6 to omega-3 ratio? Are you aware of the health consequences of that?

5) Because you admit your "healthy diet" lacks essential nutrients. It's so healthy that you now have to pop pills, which as far as I remember, sick people do.

@integral I give neutralempty a couple more years max, after that he'll come back to say thanks

Edited October 10, 2020 by Village