Why is eating meat "bad" or less evolved lets say?

[integral]

@datamonster Skipped to 1:45:52, the green to yellow transition

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@datamonster

Skipped to 49:42. Conflicting Ideologies. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[Intraplanetary]

10 minutes ago, integral said:

@datamonster

Skipped to 49:42. Conflicting Ideologies. 

Bang! 

[integral]

@datamonster @Intraplanetary Found the solution, The Meta-Vegan

https://flaviomasi.it/en/works/meta-vegan/

Joke.

Really try to imagine what a multi-perspectival vegan would look like? Brain storm the idea. 

How to take veganism into the meta level. The Meta-Veganism movement. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by integral

[Intraplanetary]

25 minutes ago, datamonster said:

This is exactly the kind of herd mentality I was talking about earlier btw.

Just admit man, that was a brilliantly relevant point. You got what you asked 

[integral]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:04 PM, Fran11 said:

If you are gonna contradict or question the most importan and large health organization in the world, which has made this conclussion by looking over lots of controlled scientific studies, you have to at the very least provide some solid non-anecdotal evidence to make your case. Otherwise you are just making shit up.

There is no science happening in this domain, there is just the appearance of science. This is why i was pressuring you to doubt your intuition, but that was not the right method... There are many communities each with a mountain of "evidence' supporting there beliefs, The only way to navigate this is to learn from every perspective and carefully experiment. Pitting evidence against evidence is meaningless, The biology we are trying to navigate is counter-intuitive and the landscape is deeply muddled by financial incentives. 

We can have a discussion about why this case, In short systemic social corruption and the entangled nature of science, culture and social systems. 

[Fran11]

@integral You are over-exaggerating my claim in your mind. I didn't say vegan diets are the best for every person and propouse. 

All I said was that people who really cannot tolerate a proper vegan diet (which is not the same as having an allergy to a particular food, or a bad planned diet) are extremely rare exceptions. 

If you have "mountains of evidence" against this, just provide some.

 

[Intraplanetary]

6 hours ago, datamonster said:

@integral @Intraplanetary Since you only believe it if comes out of Leo's mouth, here's another one for the jukebox 

 

Sorry to break this to you but, you're a devil too   Or you think that being a vegan makes you an angel?  

[integral]

14 hours ago, datamonster said:

This is exactly the kind of herd mentality I was talking about earlier btw.

We are not high-fiving each other in celebration of a victory. This is not us attacking or beating you up. Its all just how your experiencing it.

This is about learning not winning. 

This is not a competition. This is not our mind against your mind. 

 

[integral]

15 hours ago, Fran11 said:

If you have "mountains of evidence" against this, just provide some.

Its all the same evidence. Every community interprets the evidence from there perspective. The conclusions written at the end of studies are interpretations. Would you like doctors to explain the data from there perspective? 

15 hours ago, Fran11 said:

All I said was that people who really cannot tolerate a proper vegan diet (which is not the same as having an allergy to a particular food, or a bad planned diet) are extremely rare exceptions. 

They all have issues. The damaging effects of stress express themselves differently, most of which is unnoticed or deceptive like simply aging at a faster rate. Just because its unnoticed does not make it minor. People quickly adapt to a new "normal" baseline, especially as changes build slowly and they are told by culture everything that is happening to them is "normal" with age. Its not. For all we know, we are built for near immortality where the person remains in perfect youth until they reach the dividing limit of there cells. Your skin is not suppose to wrinkle, your hair is not supposed to fall out or turn white. These are the symptoms of people who sabotage there body for 60 years. but we are conditioned into believing this is normal because its common. A false pattern. 

The blood sugar roller coaster that a vegan diet comes with hammers the body. But that stress will be confused for other issues. 

It should be clear that there is no evidence. Its about understanding the ground we are walking on. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by integral

[Fran11]

20 minutes ago, integral said:

Its all the same evidence. Every community interprets the evidence from there perspective. The conclusions written at the end of studies are interpretations. Would you like doctors to explain the data from there perspective? 

Ok, then show me a resonable study interpretation which claims that a well planned vegan diet is harmful.

You think you are being multiperspectival and meta, but you are just denying the validity of the evidence and making unjustified claims.

[integral]

9 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Ok, then show me a resonable study interpretation which claims that a well planned vegan diet is harmful.

Never made this claim. Each community makes claims for them-self, they do not spend energy proving other diet are bad. They indirectly do. 

10 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

You think you are being multiperspectival and meta, but you are just denying the validity of the evidence and making unjustified claims.

You looked at your own evidence? 

[integral]

10 minutes ago, datamonster said:

What we should be interested in is the current scientific consensus. I posted the positions of major global health organizations above. These give you an idea.

They are worthless, you do not understand the ground we are standing on. You do not understand society. 

[Fran11]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Never made this claim. Each community makes claims for them-self, they do not spend energy proving other diet are bad. They indirectly do. 

Yes that's why processed meats are classified Group 1 carcinogen LOL

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Fran11

[integral]

@Fran11 How is this possible? All of your content on actualized.org that ive read is exceptional. Except for this??? Where you have unshakable faith in science and consense. 

[Fran11]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

@Fran11 How is this possible? All of your content on actualized.org that ive read is exceptional. Except for this??? Where you have unshakable faith in science and consense. 

We're not talking about methapysics or spirituality here.

The fact that science is very limited and biased regarding those subjects, doesn't mean it isn't useful for judging a freaking diet.

That's a distinction you have to draw. You can't just indiscriminately throw all of science out the window, that's nonsense.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Fran11

[integral]

@Fran11 Its possible to just entertain the ideas with out preconceptions to see where it goes. To see what you can learn from it. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@Fran11 @datamonster Heres some random doctors who do carnivore, talking science. This is what you wanted... 

Overall nutrition science talk (its all interpretation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_ARV4RN1aw

Cholesterol Controversy (its healthy from this perspective) 

 

[Fran11]

@integral Again, I never said vegan diets are the best for every person and propouse, sure there are benefits to many kinds of diets.

But this conversation is just going in circles...

Edited October 20, 2020 by Fran11

[integral]

@Fran11 They are talking science, explaining studies, from there interpretation off the studies. I cant post studies to "prove" things, i need to post perspectives.