Why is eating meat "bad" or less evolved lets say?

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@Parththakkar12 this is what digestive problems looks like

https://www.actualized.org/insights/my-health-situation

I've watched 26 minutes of it. He starts talking about 'healthy fruits and vegetables making it worse' somewhere around 25 minutes.

What Leo was talking about sounded more like emotional starvation. I've experienced the exact same thing. When I looked into it (with the help of this absolute genius Teal Swan), it turned out to be unresolved childhood trauma and relationship issues. I was lonely and I needed to find a way to a connected relationship. Especially when he said he felt like it was a 'cascade of toxic chemicals' which drained him, that's what it reminded me of.

He said that fruits and vegetables made it worse, right? I'll tell you what I think happened there - when you eat fruits and vegetables, your life becomes more organic and natural. Which means, you have lost resources to cope with your existing emotional dysfunctions. When you eat meat, dairy, junk and processed foods, one of the reasons it's so appealing is that it gives you the ability to cope with emotional dysfunctions. This is why you can stay in your rational mind (which is not natural for humans) and be a work-machine like you do! Maybe Leo actually just needed some rest and he needed to stop pushing himself so hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cjo9YwMkTg

This is an interesting perspective on chronic fatigue! I hope this helps.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Village]

@neutralempty

4 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

There is no argument to be made. You made a bunch of untrue statements.

When I hit the 10 year mark, I will post my blood result here. If everything is alright, you go vegan on the spot, deal !

Better yet, post before and after pictures. Without makeup

[integral]

28 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@integral When did you stop murdering your neighbours children? Or did you actually never do it and did not try anything else? Just went straight for being a lawful citizen?

I like everyone else went strait to being a lawful citizen untill i realized i was a child eating monster, so i accepted my self and started cracking open the skulls of babys. 

[Proserpina]

22 minutes ago, integral said:

@Village Its going to be a mindfuck when they realize the carnivores put hard work into this and are not pleasure seeking immoral devils.    

Lol. 

[integral]

@Parththakkar12

7 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I've watched 26 minutes of it. He starts talking about 'healthy fruits and vegetables making it worse' somewhere around 25 minutes.

What Leo was talking about sounded more like emotional starvation. I've experienced the exact same thing. When I looked into it (with the help of this absolute genius Teal Swan), it turned out to be unresolved childhood trauma and relationship issues. I was lonely and I needed to find a way to a connected relationship. Especially when he said he felt like it was a 'cascade of toxic chemicals' which drained him, that's what it reminded me of.

He said that fruits and vegetables made it worse, right? I'll tell you what I think happened there - when you eat fruits and vegetables, your life becomes more organic and natural. Which means, you have lost resources to cope with your existing emotional dysfunctions. When you eat meat, dairy, junk and processed foods, one of the reasons it's so appealing is that it gives you the ability to cope with emotional dysfunctions. This is why you can stay in your rational mind (which is not natural for humans) and be a work-machine like you do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cjo9YwMkTg

This is an interesting perspective on chronic fatigue! I hope this helps.

Thank you for this, very interesting perspective, going to look into this further. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by integral

[PurpleTree]

I tried the carnivore diet for a month for "health reasons" once.

Was generally a bit more relaxed and had less gut issues than usually, might have had a bit more energy in the beginning then usually but in the end of the month i felt kind of tired.

I liked the relaxed factor because usually i'm a bit anxious and also easily stressed and this was even during some exams which would make me more stressed probably.

 

But the diet is also far too boring for me i really like veggies and fruits etc. too.

I've also tried vegetarian diets, my longest one was about 6 months.

Edited October 10, 2020 by PurpleTree

[Village]

6 minutes ago, datamonster said:

The wolf has to do it in order to survive, you don't!

I do, we've established that with your buddy.

[PurpleTree]

32 minutes ago, datamonster said:

No, not all. You keep talking about veganism as tough it was a diet, which it isn't. When somebody claims to be a vegan that tells you nothing about his actual diet. 

For me diet is quite simple. I just look towards the people that live longest and healthiest today and try to eat like them. These people live in the so-called blue zones and they have been studied quite well.

And they just so happen to eat a predominantly whole foods plant-based diet, which also happens to be the most environmentally friendly, sustainable and ethical diet.

I've been doing that for the past 7 years, get my blood checked regularly and I'm still happy, strong and healthy. So, please tell me why should I change that?

They do generally eat some meat, dairy, eggs etc. in the blue zones though.

But around 95% plants.

[Yog]

This was a good watch.

Idk what to make out of it.
Maybe I'll try it out to some degree.
 

 

[BlackMaze]

10 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Why did you go back to chicken every 2 months, after being vegan? Did you feel healthy on a vegan diet? Also why don't you go to a farmer and try to kill a chicken if you think about that a lot?

Because of a social gathering where there was bbq involved and i decided to eat meat, after 6 months of no consumption of animal products, to see what it's like and after alot of social pressure of course. Chicken was the only meat that tasted good to me. Because of a health condition i started eating fish maybe once per week and 2 eggs per week because there are supposed to be helpful for me specifically. I have friends that really strive on a completely vegan diet also with serious health conditions. The main reasons i decided to go vegan at that time were ethical ones and health (after learning that i have a chronic conditition i wanted to clean my diet). The amount of garbage food i eliminated from my diet since then it's amazing. I definetely saw a difference in my well being after stopping eating all animal foods. Why do i sometimes eat chicken you ask? I don't need to eat it but i can't completely let go of the amazing taste. Other than that it seems that chicken works well with me and i feel better after eating it. I believe that it would be impossible for me to kill that chicken if it wasn't necessary. I think that is ethically wrong to kill that chicken or pretend that it never happened when i just buy it but on the other hand health is my top value even if i lived unhealthy for many years. If it means that i will be healthier i will eat chicken more often. But it's just wrong to just ignore the killing of the chicken when you can't do it yourself. I don't criticise anyone for their food choices. I  just want somebody to raise and kill this animal and just sell it to me in order for me to not have to ever think about this. But exactly there is the problem, 99% of people that eat meat don't ever think about the process that led this piece of meat to land on their plates. And when they learn about it and the problems it causes maybe they'll even become vegan. Btw when i was 5 i saw my grandpa slaughtering many chickens and sheep so i knew from a young age how its traditionally done.

 

[blankisomeone]

It’s not.

[Scholar]

The reason why it is less evolved is very simply because of the fact that evolution will exterminate consumption of animals in the human context in an optimal future.

There are a few reasons for why this will inevitably happen:

• Environmental factors will force us to adjust our consumption significantly
• As society grows more mature, it becomes more compassionate in general, leading to an inability to accept the suffering and death we are causing to others
• Technological progress will render it inefficient to grow entire animals for specific parts

 

So the reason for why it is less evolved is because evolution will evolve away from it, much like within the human context it is evolving away from things like rape, murder and war. It's a necessary consequence of higher complexity, atleast on this planet.

 

I don't quite understand what you mean by "spiritual standpoint". There is no such thing as a spiritual standpoint. And if there is, the spiritual standpoint is fine with war, rape, murder, torture, pedophelia, holocausts and everything else that you can imagine. I would not make an appeal to spirituality for moral issues.

[PurpleTree]

39 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't quite understand what you mean by "spiritual standpoint". There is no such thing as a spiritual standpoint. And if there is, the spiritual standpoint is fine with war, rape, murder, torture, pedophelia, holocausts and everything else that you can imagine. I would not make an appeal to spirituality for moral issues.

Yea it's not the greatest term. What i kind of mostly meant is, if we look at the universe as one and we are that universe and are mostly conscious of that through meditation or whatever. And the universe keeps on creating and devouring itself and wants to explore all facets. Like this is all just Maya basically. Is it wrong from that standpoint?

Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita (if i remember correctly) that he shouldn't be afraid to die and also not afraid to kill somebody in that war, because there is really no death.

But on another (lower, non "spiritual") level we are humans and many of us don't want to hurt other people or even animals. So do you think it's less evolved because on that "lower" level it inflicts pain and suffering on those animals and that's just a thing about being empathetic toward animals etc.?

Or is it also less evolved on the "higher" (what i called spiritual) level too because ultimately we don't wan't to hurt ourselves? (the universe) Even though he universe wants to explore all facets and there is really no death.

[Scholar]

32 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea it's not the greatest term. What i kind of mostly meant is, if we look at the universe as one and we are that universe and are mostly conscious of that through meditation or whatever. And the universe keeps on creating and devouring itself and wants to explore all facets. Like this is all just Maya basically. Is it wrong from that standpoint?

Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita (if i remember correctly) that he shouldn't be afraid to die and also not afraid to kill somebody in that war, because there is really no death.

But on another (lower, non "spiritual") level we are humans and many of us don't want to hurt other people or even animals. So do you think it's less evolved because on that "lower" level it inflicts pain and suffering on those animals and that's just a thing about being empathetic toward animals etc.?

Or is it also less evolved on the "higher" (what i called spiritual) level too because ultimately we don't wan't to hurt ourselves? (the universe) Even though he universe wants to explore all facets and there is really no death.

I don't know what you mean by wrong. You are not actually conscious of the standpoint of the universe, you are conscious of a story you tell about the universe.

 

It's easy to tell that this is not coming from a place of "higher consciousness". This is all your ego talking, making excuses to justify itself. If this was an honest question, you wouldn't be questioning whether it's fine to consume animals. You would ask yourself if it's fine to rape children. Sit down and ask yourself the very same questions about raping and torturing little children.

 

Less evolved simply means that evolution towards higher complexity tends to remove that certain state of affairs. The Spiritual Level is a Level of Isness. The prescription you are seeking are part of that Isness. Me not wanting you to consume meat is as much part of Existence as you wanting to continue to consume your meat.

 

Stop asking moral question to the Great Eye of Isness. The Great Eye of Isness will simply show you what is. And everything Is, including all moral propositions. Pedophelia Is. Pedophelia resistance is. The only question you have to ask yourself is what the world is.

 

 

You are still looking at this as if it was a story. There is no answer for why it is less evolved. It is less evolved because the very fabric of the Being has determined it so. That's all. Why is Redness red? Because it is. End of story.

 

Look at the world for what it is. If you see that, you will be able to see where it is going, what it is growing towards. If you then happen to seek to do so, you can consciously contribute to that. You are contributing to it right now, merely in an unconscious way. Contribution is all there is.

 

 

In the end, what is, is that given the choice to save the pig, I would accept killing you for the pig. And what is, is that you would resist that. And then evolution would come to conclude what the Truth is. The Truth will always be what is.

 

I made a thread on this particular issue, maybe it can help you:

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Scholar

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It's easy to tell that this is not coming from a place of "higher consciousness". This is all your ego talking, making excuses to justify itself.

 

I'm not really making excuses or claim to speak from a higher consciousness, i'm just asking questions.

But the way you answered made me think a bit that it's mostly your ego replying and not a reply from a "higher consciousness"

Thanks anyway, i'll check your topic out.

[integral]

14 minutes ago, Scholar said:

In the end, what is, is that given the choice to save the pig, I would accept killing you for the pig. And what is, is that you would resist that. And then evolution would come to conclude what the Truth is. The Truth will always be what is.

 

Isnt this a bias towards the pig? 

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

I'm not really making excuses or claim to speak from a higher consciousness, i'm just asking questions.

But the way you answered made me think a bit that it's mostly your ego replying and not a reply from a "higher consciousness"

Thanks anyway, i'll check your topic out.

Whether it is my ego replying to you or not is irrelevant to what I said.

 

Just now, integral said:

Isnt this a bias towards the pig? 

It is a bias towards the innocent. If it was a pig about to kill a human so that he could eat it, if he instead could choose to consume something else, I would kill the pig.

[integral]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It is a bias towards the innocent. If it was a pig about to kill a human so that he could eat it, if he instead could choose to consume something else, I would kill the pig.

Why not do nothing? 

Edited October 12, 2020 by integral

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

Whether it is my ego replying to you or not is irrelevant to what I said.

Well there were a lot of assumptions etc. in your text so it's actually relevant imo

[Scholar]

Just now, integral said:

Why not do nothing? 

Because that's not what Is.