Frank Yangs response to Actualized.org

[electroBeam]

34 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I think sometimes we get absolutely stuck in routine and other times we suffer with a lot out of resistance to putting them in place. Why should meditation be different from teeth brushing? We brush our teeth routinely even when we don't really feel like it, but to be honest I can't remember having resistant feelings arise to brushing my teeth since I was 9 or something. If you ask me, I like having clean teeth, but I don't think about it. 

do whatever works for you, I tried that way and it was terribly effective. I'm a typical adviata vendanta guy where practice doesnt work well for me. 

But on a more broad level, routines work for some things, but doesn't work for other things. Whether routine works depends on your personality type, and the work you're doing. 

In the creative field, we are strongly against micro managing staff and try to give staff room and space to be creative. If we micromanage, in other words set routines that they must follow, then their work becomes uncreative and manufactured. Also they loose interest because creatives don't like routine. On the other end if I was managing construction workers, or factory workers, I would have a very intense micro managing regime, because what's important there is following routine and doing it as quickly and productively as possible. Its easy to measure productivity (timers for each task). 

A very spontaneous personality type (sorts of people with messy rooms) tend to go better without routine, while people who love rules (the managers types and christians) love order and therefore routine makes them feel safe and secure. 

[Shin]

26 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Brushing my teeth didn't make me happy. I give up. I'm highly suspicious of showering now. 

If you're conscious of how conscious you are you ain't conscious. 

I guess you mean being truly awaken, in that sense, I suppose that may be true.

In the other hand, you can, as a self be aware of yourself all the time, and that has huge practical value.

Can't suffer if you have constant distance from your thoughts and emotions, and if you experientially understand that all thoughts and emotions comes from beliefs you hold.

You can let go of anything in a matter of seconds ☺

[The0Self]

He seems to have achieved a type of awakening called arahatship. It comes from balancing insight meditation and Samatha. Jhanas help, and he’s achieved the main 8 (haven’t heard him talk about the last 5, Pure Land Jhanas). It’s pretty lofty as far as awakening goes, an extremely rare achievement. I’ve also noticed he’s described the witness, so he’s done enough self inquiry to get to that state too. No idea if he got the Ramana style goal of self inquiry. Probably did. None of that is liberation. Nobody can get liberation because there isn’t anybody lol.

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Pateedm said:

conscious stomach breathing 24/7, and combining that with letting go in the daily sits is the way to go, more of an intuitive style 

??

@LfcCharlie4

[Virtually]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

So what I am talking about is not merely exploring more of the formed world, like some astral realms. I mean pure consciousness itself becoming infinitely more conscious of itself.

Not just exploring more content, but becoming more conscious, on a structural level, of what consciousness itself is, regardless of the form that consciousness is. Am I getting this right? It's kind of hard to find this distinctions being made elsewhere

[Consilience]

22 hours ago, Fadl said:

There are three types of people who use psychedelics for long times: 

1-People who seek pleasure (these glimpses are better than orgasms).

2- Egoistic people who want to feel they are better than other people, they want to feel they are God, because nothing else will satisfy them.

3- Delusional people.  

                            

You can’t reach God, but you can come closer to him, it is the ultimate eternity journey. 

Wrong. There is most certainly a personality type which is driven by the excitement of exploration, beings who are curious about the unimaginable ways in which consciousness can manifest and want to experience these manifestations for the joy of it no different than how an awakened individual may go on a camping trip in some far out forest or mountain. 

And just to clarify, at times the exploring can be quite painful and arduous. Exploring collective realms of suffering has nothing to do with pleasure states, although the fact of the exploring can be quite joyful. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Consilience

[Fadl]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

 

13 hours ago, KaRzual said:

 

On 8/10/2020 at 11:51 PM, Fadl said:

There are three types of people who use psychedelics for long times: 

1-People who seek pleasure (these glimpses are better than orgasms).

2- Egoistic people who want to feel they are better than other people, they want to feel they are God, because nothing else will satisfy them.

3- Delusional people.  

                            

You can’t reach God, but you can come closer to him, it is the ultimate eternity journey. 

That's pretty harsh. And untrue also. Seems like you project a lot on those people. 

 

Everybody is projecting, everybody talks about his own experience, only a delusional/idiot/egoistic man will claim that his words are the Truth and his way is the Way. 

These people remind me of Trump (which they hate a lot for obvious psychological reasons) he just reminds them about their own ego. 

 

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

Wrong. There is most certainly a personality type which is driven by the excitement of exploration, beings who are curious about the unimaginable ways in which consciousness can manifest and want to experience these manifestations for the joy of it no different than how an awakened individual may go on a camping trip in some far out forest or mountain. 

And just to clarify, at times the exploring can be quite painful and arduous. Exploring collective realms of suffering has nothing to do with pleasure states, although the fact of the exploring can be quite joyful. 

I don’t know man maybe there are people like that, but this “excitement of exploration” you mentioned is just the ego. 

Anyway, I’m not talking about an awakened individual who might go on a camping trip in some far out forest or mountain, I’m talking about the drugs users, they become deluded sooner or later. 
 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Fadl

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Fadl said:

Anyway, I’m not talking about an awakened individual who might go on a camping trip in some far out forest or mountain, I’m talking about the drugs users, they become deluded sooner or later. 
 

Going off to the mountain and taking a dive into altered states of consciousness are equivalent in this example. Just more activity. So in this case Im talking about an enlightened being who feels an authentic call to go exploring but not into the mountains, but into the mind. 

Yeah you’re right, it’s 100% my ego but so is all activity. Every single action is a manipulation of survival and ego. Even meditation or camping. So that point is kind of irrelevant to what Im talking about.

I was simply trying to point out that these altered states have their place. Treating them as sacred explorations into the inner workings of infinite intelligence and consciousness and facing whatever comes up, heaven or hell, with surrender and love is very different than the three listed points. There is an irreplaceable wisdom gained through those explorations that’s difficult to describe. 

[Fadl]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Going off to the mountain and taking a dive into altered states of consciousness are equivalent in this example. Just more activity. So in this case Im talking about an enlightened being who feels an authentic call to go exploring but not into the mountains, but into the mind. 

Yeah you’re right, it’s 100% my ego but so is all activity. Every single action is a manipulation of survival and ego. Even meditation or camping. So that point is kind of irrelevant to what Im talking about.

I was simply trying to point out that these altered states have their place. Treating them as sacred explorations into the inner workings of infinite intelligence and consciousness and facing whatever comes up, heaven or hell, with surrender and love is very different than the three listed points. There is an irreplaceable wisdom gained through those explorations that’s difficult to describe. 

Yeah I understand what you are trying to say it is obvious. But let me give you an example… you feel very horney and you understand that you got 3 options:

1-    Rape somebody.
2-    Marry somebody.
3-    Have a girlfriend for 1-3 years with all this nonsensical oxytocin (a lot of people choose this btw and start acting like they are all about love).

What are you going to choose? 

Again man, I respect the inner realizations, I respect those who are trying to reach the truth, but from my experience people who use drugs will become deluded sooner or later. 

[Ry4n]

This seems to be the point where "meditative" enlightenment and "psychedelic" enlightenment begin to diverge, the meditative path focuses more on seeing God in THIS MOMENT whereas the psychedelic type focuses on reaching higher and higher states of awareness. Both are ultimately good but I think to have one without the other is incomplete. I do believe Frank is correct when he says psychedelics alone cannot "lock in" enlightenment so to speak.  It just isn't good enough in my eyes, you have to actually change the very structure of your own brain alongside the psychedelic awakenings to make things stick, the baseline level of consciousness is where 95% (or more) of your life is spent, so to think spending 5% of your life in an enlightened state equates to actual enlightenment even if some of it sticks is delusional imo. 

It's also important to mention that not EVERYONE feels using psychedelics over other methods is the most useful path for them, I'd argue most people find the combination to be most effective, instead of just smoking 5meo over and over again, that doesn't work for everyone. 

This whole "my way or the highway" attitude surrounding psychedelic enlightenment is bullshit.

 

[TruthHurts]

I think the main difference is speed, drugs have short duration and fast peak  that can take you anywhere, where mediation, deep states can go for days, weeks , even months till you build up, which gives way better control of where you are going and getting used to changes. 

[Ry4n]

Frank: "If you can't lock it in and perceive infinity right here right now 24/7 then what's the point?" 

[Mafortu]

what a fascinating video, a part of me hates that guy because he gives  a very douchy vibe, but hes words are right

[PopoyeSailor]

This seems to confirm Frank Yang's Realisation.

 

 

[PopoyeSailor]

The most important thing Frank Yang mentions in the interview video is that Enlightenment alone does not make you compassionate and moral. Sure it will act as a catalyst and a booster for morality. But, as he mentions, the previous conditioning plays a crucial role in determining the enhanced effect the moral or immoral behavior will have after enlightenment.

This is something I understood by observing different gurus and their behaviors over the years. Ken Wilber has confirmed it for me. Frank yang seem to have knowledge of Ken Wilber's Cleaning Up, Waking Up, Growing Up model for Consciousness work.

Edited October 10, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[Mafortu]

3:14

More interesting and exiting development!

Teal Swan just released this video, at 3:14 she also suggests that enlightenment is not binary as Frank says.

[PopoyeSailor]

My Opinion:

That Non-Duality when everything perceivable is removed, the state that remains after that, which is called as nothingness/emptiness which also acts as an absolute potential for manifesting anything and everything is what is called as enlightenment.

May be this realization itself is attained like a dual switch of ON/OFF. The reason this could be true is because, everyone who attains it says that once you attain it, that reality is never lost or forgotten like other spiritual experiences. The moment it is attained, it becomes permanent and always remains in the background even during intense frustrations in life.

It seems, once the projection is directly seen to be just a projection, it always remains as the projection.(May be psychedelics are not showing this truth deeply enough for it to become permanent?)

Now, the expansion of consciousness and the various infinite different intense states that it can configure itself into must definitely be limitless and infinite. I don't think Frank Yang or any other enlightened person denies it. May be this is the area where psychedelics are helpful in exploring through the infinite states that consciousness can take shape as.

 

Other Possibility:

May be the psychedelics are actually showing the same enlightened states as meditation, but the permanentness of those states are dependent on structure of the  individual body-mind, requiring longer time for adjustment which cannot happen in a small time duration during psychedelic experiences.

 

May be Leo is insisting that the nature of some of the states are so radical that even the initial enlightenment/knowing itself just feels trivial and fades in comparison to those unbelievable states. If this is the case, then all that he needs to say is that "Enlightenment/self-realisation itself feels trivial in comparison to these states". Maybe that's what he's trying to say.

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[Fadl]

2 hours ago, PopoyeSailor said:

May be the psychedelics are actually showing the same enlightened states as meditation, but the permanentness of those states are dependent on structure of the  individual body-mind, requiring longer time for adjustment which cannot happen in a small time duration during psychedelic experiences.

13 hours ago, Ry4n said:

This whole "my way or the highway" attitude surrounding psychedelic enlightenment is bullshit.

 

 

13 hours ago, TruthHurts said:

I think the main difference is speed, drugs have short duration and fast peak  that can take you anywhere, where mediation, deep states can go for days, weeks , even months till you build up, which gives way better control of where you are going and getting used to changes. 

 

13 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Frank: "If you can't lock it in and perceive infinity right here right now 24/7 then what's the point?" 

 

I think I agree. 

[Shin]

Quote

Frank: "If you can't lock it in and perceive infinity right here right now 24/7 then what's the point?" 

Knowing for sure spirituality isn't new age bullshit

[Enlightenment]

On 10/8/2020 at 4:05 PM, Display_Name said:

I doubt Harris is even close to Frank’s liberation. Maybe 2nd path at best.

Harris also lacks 5-MeO experience and got “lost” on his last LSD trip. Great guy though.

On 10/8/2020 at 7:07 PM, Carl-Richard said:

During a podcast he had with his previous meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein, he specifically said that he doesn't consider himself enlightened. He has talked about experiencing temporary states of no self. As far as I know, he has never claimed that he is in a perpetual state, and his trip reports strongly indicate that fact. I would really like to know where you got that information from.

Ok so I did some research and yes it seems like Sam only had temporary experiences of no-self. What he meant is that when he looks for a self, he can't find it. Even in his latest 5g mushroom trip he intentionally tried to 'cut through the sense of self'

This is really surprising for me that 2 years of meditation retreats didn't do it for him, but it only further validates the point that finding your meditation fit is the key