Frank Yangs response to Actualized.org

[Fran11]

5 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@Leo Gura

Would you prefer to be relieved of your health issues temporarily or healed permanently? 

Chronic health issues cause a lot of suffering, it's a very delicate thing to be used in order to win an argument, show some love man.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Javfly33 Adya meditated for 7 years, Zen style, before his first awakening. I think you’re getting him confused with someone like Eckhart Tolle or Ramana. 

@LfcCharlie4 Oh no, I'm not referring to his Enlightement or Awakening.

I mean mystical experiences, or at least mystical glimpses. He declared in one video he would get them when he was as young as when he was in primary school.

I can't recall what exactly he experienced but it looked it was kind of some high awareness state when he would be the "observer" for the whole day. With 8 years old. Yeah, that's why I think using an example of someone who has awakened through meditation as a point to prove Psychedelics are not neccesarary is naive. Maybe the one who awakened thorough meditation had a very particular brain chemistry than most people brains don't.

[mandyjw]

52 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m finding that to be unequivocally false more and more each day. 

method (n.)

early 15c., "regular, systematic treatment of disease," from Latin methodus "way of teaching or going," from Greek methodos "scientific inquiry, method of inquiry, investigation," originally "pursuit, a following after," from meta "in pursuit or quest of" (see meta-) + hodos "a method, system; a way or manner" (of doing, saying, etc.), also "a traveling, journey," literally "a path, track, road," a word of uncertain origin (see Exodus). https://www.etymonline.com/word/method

Genesis, Exodus, Revelations!!! Oh Jesus. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by mandyjw

[Someone here]

What is enlightenment? 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw

In deed. ♥️

[Dodo]

@Adamq8

5 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

 

YEAH Enlightenment is not a peak experience. I have also been trying to scream about the power of this present as the best practice for awakening/enlightenment, to see the entire experience as an offering to the perfect pure location less now. No need for any object to get you there, just look inwards.

But any object within is also not excluded. All that matters is to not keep identification in the body, but on the true self now. The rest will fall into place . IF that means taking 5meo it will happen, if not, it wont happen. It doesnt need to. 

Enlightenment is not a goal, it is the beginning and the end. Then you are not on a path anymore and not seeking enlightenment further, you are Being and you just observe the fruits of being. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Dodo

[Scholar]

2 hours ago, Display_Name said:

Well, the latter IS Frank.

Thats what makes him so special.

He’s the only one we know of that attained full buddhist Liberation (4 Paths model) AND has 5-MeO experience, so he dodges the common (and justified) “yes but he doesn’t know 5-MeO” criticism.

Adyashanti also recently had 5g shrooms and said it didn’t really change much. Getting him on 25mg 5-MeO would be interesting.

In any case, it’s quite clear to me that Leo may have gone  deeper on peaks, but Frank is far more liberated. In his words, quantum leaps. His 5-MeO trips give him more credibility than all other enlightened people imo.

I can imagine that Leo would say one 5-MeO experience is not enough, or that it had to be done in a certain way with a certain dosage etc. so I don't exactly if that singular experience is sufficient. Do people usually realize Love when taking 5-MeO-DMT once?

I don't think they agree about Infintie Depth. Conceptually I think Frank used a good analogy. When you have a Fractal Zoom in, the zooming itself is the state of recognition, or enlightenment. Infinity is revealed, as it is the process of endless expansion. It can expand and expand forever, but what is not important is the amount or degree of expansion, but the very process of expansion itself. That is what Infinity is.

 

So to Frank enlightenment is to have a constant and clear awareness of the expansion itself. Once that is achieved, any point of expansion is just a point of expansion.

 

It seems however that Leo disagrees about something more fundamental than who is more expanded or not. He seems to claim that expansion itself is Love, and that that particular insight is of a different category that the mere recognition of Expansion or Infinity.

 

 

Traditional Enlightenment would be the recogition of Empty Expansion, and Leo's claim is that of recognizing what that Emptiness is, which he claims is Love.

[Display_Name]

9 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't think they agree about Infintie Depth. Conceptually I think Frank used a good analogy. When you have a Fractal Zoom in, the zooming itself is the state of recognition, or enlightenment. Infinity is revealed, as it is the process of endless expansion. It can expand and expand forever, but what is not important is the amount or degree of expansion, but the very process of expansion itself. That is what Infinity is.

So to Frank enlightenment is to have a constant and clear awareness of the expansion itself. Once that is achieved, any point of expansion is just a point of expansion.

It seems however that Leo disagrees about something more fundamental than who is more expanded or not. He seems to claim that expansion itself is Love, and that that particular insight is of a different category that the mere recognition of Expansion or Infinity.

Traditional Enlightenment would be the recogition of Empty Expansion, and Leo's claim is that of recognizing what that Emptiness is, which he claims is Love.

Dude, you put it perfectly.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m finding that to be unequivocally false more and more each day. 

Maybe you're not using the "right" methods lol.

And P.S. there's nothing wrong about being argumentative.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

I don't remember the exact podcast but Sam Harris said he doesn't have any center to experience since he had his breakthrough on a retreat years ago, no-self and also this whole topic of no free will he is engaged in was by large motivated by the discovery of no sense of agency by him through meditation - sounds exactly like location 4 to me of course, I can't be 100% sure

He has spent 2 years on silent retreats so it's very likely 

During a podcast he had with his previous meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein, he specifically said that he doesn't consider himself enlightened. He has talked about experiencing temporary states of no self. As far as I know, he has never claimed that he is in a perpetual state, and his trip reports strongly indicate that fact. I would really like to know where you got that information from.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is enlightenment? 

Liberation. Fearlessness. Faith.

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Liberation. Fearlessness. Faith.

That's your definition?  But I have a different definition.. Which one is true? And who's to say?   Ofcourse mine is the true And I get to say. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Someone here

[RedLine]

22 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

Dude, you put it perfectly.

No.

 

All the traditions recognize that the Absolute=Good/Love, it is so obvious that they don't even mention it. You can perceive the ethical component of enlightenment through their behavior and their phisiology. If a master describes the Absolute as Emptiness or Love depends on their personality. In the same way somebody doesn't necessarily show you that she/he loves you saying it but through their behavior.

 

For me, it was so obvious all of it was about compassion/love since the beginning and I am still not 1% consciusness as that people are haha. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by RedLine

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's your definition?

Yes.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But I have a different definition..

You shouldn't.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Which one is true?

Mine, of course.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And who's to say?

Me, of course. Because you were asking and I was answering. In this scenario, I'm the teacher and you're the student. In this scenario, I know and you don't know.

Obey, or otherwise don't ask questions, jk lol.

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's your definition?  But I have a different definition.. Which one is true? And who's to say?   Ofcourse mine is the true And I get to say. 

 

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Yes.

You shouldn't.

Mine, of course.

Me, of course. Because you were asking and I was answering. In this scenario, I'm the teacher and you're the student. In this scenario, I know and you don't know.

Obey, or otherwise don't ask questions, jk lol.

This summarizes the whole game that's going on here. 

[Gesundheit]

Just now, Someone here said:

This summarizes the whole game that's going on here. 

That's your definition? But I have a different definition.. Which one is true? And who's to say? Ofcourse mine is the true And I get to say. 

[Someone here]

@GesundheitLOL 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Someone here

[wavydude]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m finding that to be unequivocally false more and more each day. 

Could you please elaborate some more on that ? Do you think meditation is a solid "method" ?

[Nahm]

12 minutes ago, wavydude said:

Could you please elaborate some more on that ? Do you think meditation is a solid "method" ?

That’s the best question imo. Imagine what our experience of this place would be like if everyone meditated daily. I feel it’s important to recognize that nothing can be said of meditation, and that is why it’s such a great question, and points to why meditation is so effective. It could be said to strike at the heart of collective attachment gone wild. I feel it could easily be said to be more effective than Judgment, name calling, labelling and projecting identities & separate self -dome. Meditation, imo, can’t be said to be a method, but is distinct in a methodized world as meditation is not-a-method, or, the letting go of All, which includes methods.

[wavydude]

@Nahm By meditation you mean just sitting and experiencing whatever is arising or any other specific method  ?