Frank Yangs response to Actualized.org

[Adamq8]

 

[Leo Gura]

Cute.

But there is way more. So much more.

He is not Infinitely Conscious even though he got some permanent shift.

Whatever state he is in, it is a state, and there are much higher states. He simply has not yet accessed them yet.

If he was in the highest state he would not be shooting a video. There would be no universe to shoot a video in.

Of course the present moment is God. But that does not mean you are infinitely conscious of it.

I appreciate his kind words in the intro. He sounds like a sweet guy.

But don't confuse the limits of your present state with the limits of consciousness.

Awakening will never be a simple binary switch. Nor even a 10-stage switch.

[Adamq8]

@Leo Gura sounds about right, i think in his case that it is dangerous to think that he reached the end and it can't go any further, if reality is infinite it should be infinite levels of states both permanent and non permanent 

[herghly]

I get confused why people argue it's either psychedelics or not. 

Leo's always advocated both, and there is enough evidence to suggest most major religions also used psychedelics.

[wavydude]

@Leo Gura He says exact sam thing that Ralston said when you asked him if there can be something more than enlightenment that he's not aware of yet. He simply said "No". 

"You can't get more infinite than infinity" They both say that, I'm not enlightened but I think they're right and this is your biggest blindspot Leo.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, wavydude said:

"You can't get more infinite than infinity"

Oh yes you can.

That's the beauty of infinity. It's infinitely infinite.

Stop putting your artificial limits on God.

How do you know it's not their blindspot? Two can play that game. Ralston doesn't even understand Love.

[Rilles]

Woah, this guy has some great vibes, although he feels a bit unstable. I wont judge, were all different. 

[Fran11]

It's all matter of how you dissect it with your mind.

If you draw a distinctiom beetween the formless and form, awakening is an on/off switch that shifts when you make the quantum leap and become concious of the formless.

If you don't draw this distinction, awakinging has infinite levels because even after making that quantun leap, awareness of form (and its relationship to the absolute) can become infinitley more complex.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Fran11

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

If you don't draw this distinction, awakinging has infinite levels because even after making that quantun leap, awareness of form can become infinitley complex.

That's not my claim.

My claim is that consciousness can become infinitely conscious, regardless of form or complexity. So what I am talking about is not merely exploring more of the formed world, like some astral realms. I mean pure consciousness itself becoming infinitely more conscious of itself.

[Fran11]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not my claim.

My claim is that consciousness can become infinitely conscious, regardless of form or complexity.

Concious of what?

Yes, one can realise the formless at many levels and its relationship with form, is that what you mean?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Fran11 said:

Concious of what?

Conscious of itself of course.

Quote

Yes, one can realise the formless at many levels and its relationship with form, is that what you mean?

No

Infinity does not have an end.

[Fran11]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Conscious of itself of course.

But you are saying that by this you don't mean neither infinity complexity of form nor the formless at different levels. 

[mandyjw]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Two can play that game. Ralston doesn't even understand Love.

Nobody does that though. Nobody even even shares a certain perspective. 

[nistake]

I haven't watched the video yet, but if I recall correctly, Leo never said that psychedelics will awaken you permanently (judging by the title of the video).

[wavydude]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh yes you can.

That's the beauty of infinity. It's infinitely infinite.

Stop putting your artificial limits on God.

How do you know it's not their blindspot? Two can play that game. Ralston doesn't even understand Love.

Because to me they seem to be truly awake and speak from experience also also all the other legit teachers that I know of speaks about it in the same way. 
Like I said I speak as non enlightened student so it might be the case that they are all wrong and you are right but it seems highly unlikely to me.

[allislove]

Wow, love this guy, deeply resonates  

[Spiral Wizard]

My intuition tells me that there is something wrong with discrediting meditation the way @Leo Gura did in the past.

He mentioned that the duality between permanent and temporary awakening would be relative and therefore irrelevant but I would always choose permanent shifts over peak experience even if they are not as radical.
It seems more valuable from my perspective... 

To me it feels more right to “attain” full liberation mainly through “natural” means while taking psychedelics along the way as an addition. Kind of like supplements are an addition to food. 
This way you know that you are not deluding yourself. You can be sure that meditation is not a trap but psychedelics can be.

If consciousness is actually infinitely infinite why hurry? Isn't that another rat race? In the end spirituality is not inherently better than business, gaming, drug dealing, or anything else humans are doing/pursuing/working on. 

Why not chase those high levels from a solid foundation (Maslow's pyramid of needs and ego development) and a joyful emotional home (full liberation from the ego and self- or emotional mastery). 
This seems much more wise and healthy to me especially when reading through threads like this:

 

What do you think? What’s your take on this?

[Gesundheit]

Another immature ego thinking that he's God. Just wait for him to lose that state and talk to me then.

[Nahm]

All perspective.

[Enlightenment]

I mostly agree with what he said. Psychedelics will not lead to significant 'permanent' shifts (99,999% chance). Psychedelics don't produce cessations, unlike meditation. Enlightenment to the complete loss of self, no agency mode is binary

But he is deluded if he truly believes he is in the same state as the 5-MeO breakthrough cause as Leo said above, he would not be shooting a video on the 5-MeO breakthrough. 3 years is too long to clearly remember how it was, he needs to do high dose NOW.

BTW Sam Harris is in the same state, notice how different he describes it

Edited October 8, 2020 by Enlightenment