Anybody following the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict?

[PurpleTree]

About the disputed region Nagorno-Karabakh. 

 

Pretty crazy. Seems like Turkey put a battery in the back of Azerbaijan to take back the region which has been disputed for decades.

France etc. claimed that there are Jihadists from Syria fighting in the conflict on the side of Azerbaijan.

Russia is a traditional ally of Armenia but apperently isn't so close anymore with the country since the last elections in Armenia.

Armenians are saying the region was always Armenian but was given to Azeris by Soviet leaders to appease Muslims countries at that time.

 

This is a debate from February this year, from before that new escalation.

To me the Armenian president seems like a decent guy who is open for talks etc.

The Azeri president seems less open and more prone to name calling etc.

i could be off here though i don't much much about either country.

[Epikur]

I have some Turkish background so I observe it a bit. Things are quite complicated in this case. Imagine Turkey who wants back Jerusalem and is the enemy of Israel is on the same side that is pro Aserbeidchan.

As you said Russia is also favoring Aserbeidchan. It seems because Aserb. buys a lot of weapons from them all. For Russia it seemed a problem that Armenia went closer to the West. Georgia had a phase like that which resulted in a war with Russia. Russia wants some chaos in that region so the west loses more influence in that region. Turkey is traditonally an enemy of Armenia. Turkey fights Armenia in order not to have to pay reperations in the future because of the genocide.

Erdogan wants to win the election so he tries to get it with some wars is another argument. In this case the Aseris seem to have the law on their side. Normally the Greeks would help the Armenians but they are weak lately because of the economy. 

So basically you have everything in this drama. 




 

[PurpleTree]

Yeah its a mess

There's also the aspect of Islam vs. Christianity.

And the youtube comment section under the news videos is extremely toxic, which is expected.

[PurpleTree]

That seems like a pretty decent report imo

 

Also Russia invites Armenia and Azerbaijan for peace talks today, maybe Putin can calm the boys down a bit (or maybe not who knows whats their agenda)

 

 

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Things aren't complicated, Turkey is acting brain damaged. And the EU isn't acting at all.

The EU doesn't even have an army, what exactly should they do, or are you talking about sanctions etc.

The French which are the strongest army by far in the EU are demanding cease fire etc. and are very critical of Turkey also in the east mediterranean etc.

I mean Turkey is still a NATO partner for strategical reasons.

The US would have to step in or Russia. But let's see how these peace talks in Russia go.

 

Also there might be a UNO resolution since France, US and Russia are all permanent members and are not really pro Turkey on this.

Edited October 9, 2020 by PurpleTree

[Opo]

I liked this little bit more humane perspective from vice. 

It made me think would I go fight if I was in their shoes and I can't find a clear answer. 

What would you guys do and why. 

 

[PurpleTree]

^^Yea that was a decent report, pretty one-sided but that's ok

 

I don't know what i'd do since i've never been in such a situation.

Krishna said something like "If you find yourself in a war (and you're in a position age etc. to fight) you basically fight and fulfill your destiny, just without hate etc. (at least that's what i got out of the Bhagavad Gita)

But with todays weapons if i was Armenian i'd probably leave Nagorno-Karabakh for the moment, because i wouldn't want to be blown to pieces by a sneaky drone for basically nothing.

 

 

Ceasefire takes action

 

[PurpleTree]

the cease fire is already not respected

 

this video explains the conflict decent imo

 

[StarStruck]

It terms of international law Azerbaijan has a good case. Karabakh is recognized as Azeri land which Armenia occupied 30 years ago. As we speak the area is already liberated and the international community couldn't do much for the poor Armenians. They had no foot to stand on. They should have settled for an agreement with Azerbaijan. Now they lost it completely after a complete humiliation of their army. Too sad.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

It terms of international law Azerbaijan has a good case. Karabakh is recognized as Azeri land which Armenia occupied 30 years ago. As we speak the area is already liberated and the international community couldn't do much for the poor Armenians. They had no foot to stand on. They should have settled for an agreement with Azerbaijan. Now they lost it completely after a complete humiliation of their army. Too sad.

"liberated"

apparently nagorno karabakh has always been at least 70 % armenian population.

it was "given" to azerbaijan by the soviets to appease turkey and muslims at that time. 

seems like a huge mistake but yea it was recognized by the international community, so that's that.

then apparently some conflict broke out and armenians came in to "protect" the armenians" in nagrono karabakh in the early 90s, at least that's what the russians said a few days ago. i don't really have a dog in the fight. but it seems this recent war was unfair, azerbaijan is like 3X the population of armenia, they had turkeys help, drones and they imported extremist jihadis from the middle east to fight armenia

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by PurpleTree

[StarStruck]

@PurpleTree i still have to see proof for Syrian jihadists operating in Azerbaijan. 

Other than that Karabakh was mostly Azeri before Armenia unleashed a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide in 1992. 

Only area where Armenians were a majority was around the capital of Karabakh. They will respect Azeri sovereignty and they don't really have a case to do otherwise. If Armenia decides to start another war this time they will lose territory in Armenia proper. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by StarStruck

[PurpleTree]

5 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@PurpleTree i still have to see proof for Syrian jihadists operating in Azerbaijan. 

Other than that Karabakh was mostly Azeri before Armenia unleashed a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide in 1992. 

Only area where Armenians were a majority was around the capital of Karabakh. They will respect Azeri sovereignty and they don't really have a case to do otherwise. If Armenia decides to start another war this time they will lose territory in Armenia proper. 

that's not what i'm seeing, maybe you got the fake news brah

 

December 1-2 1987

A protest by the inhabitants of the Armenian-populated village of Chardakhly against the firing of the head of the village is suppressed by the Azerbaijani police. 

February 13 1988

Protestors in Stepanakert, the centre of the Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (NKAO), demand the re-unification of NKAO with the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic (SSR)

February 20, 1988

An extraordinary session of the Nagorno Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (NKAO) Soviet of People’s Deputies passes a resolution to unify the region with Armenia. No representatives of Azerbaijan attended.

February 26, 1988

A large number of people rally in Yerevan in support of NKAO’s re-unification with the Armenian SSR.

February 27-29, 1988

Armenian population of the Azerbaijani city of Sumgait is forced out during a wave of violence. The causes of the trouble are disputed.

June 15, 1988

The Supreme Soviet of the Armenian SSR gives its consent for NKAO’s inclusion into the Armenian SSR, on the basis of Article 70 of the USSR Constitution. The equivalent body in Azerbaijan responded by rejecting the decision.

July 18, 1988

Th Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR rules that Nagorno Karabakh should remain part of Azerbaijan.

September 21, 1988

Moscow introduces emergency measures to restore order in NKAO.

August 1989

Azerbaijan starts an economic blockade of Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh. Tens of thousands are deplaced from their homes and many thousands die.

January 13-20, 1990

Many members of the Armenian community in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, flee the city as tensions mount. Soviet troops move in and scores die in the ensuing violence

etc.

https://www.euronews.com/2016/04/05/key-dates-and-facts-to-understand-nagorno-karabakh-s-40-year-long-conflict

 

Nearing the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989, the Nagorno-KarabakhAutonomous Oblast boasted a population of 145,593 Armenians (76.4%), 42,871 Azeris (22.4%), and several thousand Kurds, Russians, Greeks, and Assyrians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Artsakh

[Sucuk Ekmek]

A Turk here. Here is what I see; first thing these 3 countries are barely stage blue. From voters perspective it's us vs them.  So I am automatically allied with Azerbaijan our current political situation won't let alternative insight. Doesn't matter if you are right or left.. People are dumb as fuck and emotional.   Popularity war seems to be over. Things are working for Azerbaijan they got some land so things will be stable for their government.   Unfortunately for Armenia they took a heavy price. Turkey got a chance to promote its new military toys. But Russia simply seized the Karabakh. I think we have to wait like 5 years to see what will happen to Karabakh.

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

A Turk here. Here is what I see; first thing these 3 countries are barely stage blue. From voters perspective it's us vs them.  So I am automatically allied with Azerbaijan our current political situation won't let alternative insight. Doesn't matter if you are right or left.. People are dumb as fuck and emotional.   Popularity war seems to be over. Things are working for Azerbaijan they got some land so things will be stable for their government.   Unfortunately for Armenia they took a heavy price. Turkey got a chance to promote its new military toys. But Russia simply seized the Karabakh. I think we have to wait like 5 years to see what will happen to Karabakh.

Yea best thing would be if Karabakh would get independence from Armenia and Azerbaijan i guess, it's very small and probably not very self sufficient though