No self = no beliefs?

[4201]

Can there be beliefs without a self? Can things be unconciously assumed if there is no "me" that is assuming them?

I once was in a state of no-self. Then a couple of weeks later I found a huge dysfunctional belief I was holding. This sparked the idea of a "me that has beliefs" and I haven't really realized no-self again since then.

Now I care about what beliefs I hold, I'm searching for beliefs and I'm generally blame my unhappiness on the idea that I still hold dysfunctional beliefs or that I struggle to let them go somehow. I want to stop doing that but it's hard to let go of the idea that there are beliefs when I directly experienced beliefs. Perhaps there are beliefs without a self but then who is holding them?

 

[VeganAwake]

No one is holding them...❤

A thought arises within the conditioned Body/Mind organism and a constricted energetic center seems to claim it as "MY" thought.

don't just read these words...LOOK!!

 

[Origins]

You can't type a word on this forum without several hundred beliefs intersecting to the point that leads you to type the words you did.

That's something to unravel for you there. Looking forward to your exposé on belief, give it a great title and go a little overboard, maybe something like:

"Belief, how these webs tie our minds inside out and why we only believe the world to exist".

[No Self]

A belief isn't a belief without first believing in a believer. Why believe that any particular belief, or the believer, is believable? 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Origins said:

You can't type a word on this forum without several hundred beliefs intersecting to the point that leads you to type the words you did.

That's something to unravel for you there. Looking forward to your exposé on belief, give it a great title and go a little overboard, maybe something like:

"Belief, how these webs tie our minds inside out and why we only believe the world to exist".

 

[Origins]

@VeganAwake He probably doesn't understand belief then.

[allislove]

5 hours ago, 4201 said:

Can there be beliefs without a self?

This is exactly how it is. What is a belief? Belief is repeated thought. What is thought? The thought is you. Who are you? You are God, Love, Consciousness. What is self? Self is a belief in separation, an illusion so to speak. To recognize your true nature does not cling to the thought that doesn't feel good. Who is recognizing the true nature? Awareness is aware of itself.

[Origins]

I'm a potato from a vagina Mars mixed with rainbow source from intergalactica force of yellow. 

"I AM LOVE, I AM CONSCIOUSNESS, I AM SELF!!!!"

I am boring.

So now I'm boarding a train to a place more interesting, my brain.

[mandyjw]

Do you believe in unhappiness? What's the difference between belief and doubt? None, it's another duality, but you can feel the difference, right? You have to have a reason for doing something, something you want, some direction even if it's only a fairytale, all the better that it's only a fairytale. If you want to feel better, the good news is you can cut to the chase. 

 

[Origins]

I don't even believe in happiness. An idea meant to delude the masses.

There's zero reason to be unhappy unless you're the equivalent of a hippie vampire that's been strapped to a bed being raped by a ginormous dildo made of thorns.

We have many ideas that spread around culture that are conceptualised so darn poorly, the ego doesn't care if there done poorly though just so long as it "feels good" until it begins to feel the tug of discontent again, being raped by that phantom thorny dildo called life.

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, 4201 said:

Can there be beliefs without a self?
 

I once was in a state of no-self.

Notice that is how ‘its happens’, so to speak..believing the thought about you and a past and a state you were in. You aren’t and object moving through time. ?

[Moksha]

Beliefs are a product of the conditioned mind. To the extent we are able to be, in a state of no-mind, we are free from our beliefs. I still have a lot of beliefs, but I'm slowly getting there.

[VeganAwake]

11 hours ago, Origins said:

You can't type a word on this forum without several hundred beliefs intersecting to the point that leads you to type the words you did.

That's something to unravel for you there. Looking forward to your exposé on belief, give it a great title and go a little overboard, maybe something like:

"Belief, how these webs tie our minds inside out and why we only believe the world to exist".

I get what you're saying really interesting to think about...

[mandyjw]

Believe - give credit to. Creed, Credit, as in credit cards, something that has to come before. BeliEVE, Eve, the mother of all, beli eve, belly of Eve

matrix (n.)

late 14c., matris, matrice, "uterus, womb," from Old French matrice "womb, uterus" and directly from Latin mātrix (genitive mātricis) "pregnant animal," in Late Latin "womb," also "source, origin," from māter (genitive mātris) "mother" (see mother (n.1)).

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by mandyjw

[Moksha]

@mandyjw Interesting that the etymology of matrix points to Source itself 

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

@mandyjw Interesting that the etymology of matrix points to Source itself 

"Your Mom" jokes are even funnier after nonduality. Leo isn't kidding about the rewards of this work. 

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

21 hours ago, No Self said:

A belief isn't a belief without first believing in a believer. Why believe that any particular belief, or the believer, is believable? 

The best thing in the world is a trustable speech. It is indeed very satisfying. 

[The0Self]

There can arise beliefs, but nobody has any clue what they mean.

[Forestluv]

On 10/8/2020 at 1:06 AM, 4201 said:

Perhaps there are beliefs without a self but then who is holding them?

Sometimes it's nice to observe the phenomena.

Imagine there is a happening that arises that we call "the sound of a bird chirp". Is that a belief? Is there a self holding on to the bird chirp appearance?

Imagine there is a happening that arises that we call "a thought of an elephant". Is that a belief? Is there a self holding on to the elephant thought appearance?

Imagine there is a happening that arises that we call "a thought that he is arrogant". Is that a belief? Is there a self holding on to the 'he is arrogant' thought appearance?

Observe the appearance of phenomena like a thought and the relationship to that thought. If the thought "I'm a terrible person" arose in Chinese, it would not be bothersome to me since I don't understand Chinese. If the thought arose in English, the likelihood my body finds it bothersome would increase since I understand English.

[4201]

On 08/10/2020 at 0:48 PM, Nahm said:

Notice that is how ‘its happens’, so to speak..believing the thought about you and a past and a state you were in. You aren’t and object moving through time. ?

I think I do believe there is a body moving through time. But I do admit that the game of keeping track of a self that has realized X in the past and had Y, Z, W beliefs is just another mind game.

On 08/10/2020 at 8:40 AM, mandyjw said:

Do you believe in unhappiness? What's the difference between belief and doubt? None, it's another duality, but you can feel the difference, right? You have to have a reason for doing something, something you want, some direction even if it's only a fairytale, all the better that it's only a fairytale. If you want to feel better, the good news is you can cut to the chase. 

Somehow you found out the real source of pain behind this mind-game I was playing. I struggle with the reason for what I'm doing with life. I am making a video game and it's getting quite close to a success yet I feel selfish for doing that. I imagine I should dedicate my life to others or solve issues people have with their lives. I genuinely think video games do not have a net positive impact on society, just perhaps a neutral one. Yet the success of such a project would bring me income which could allow me to pursue more conscious projects using the resources gathered.

Somehow I still despise this idea because it feels selfish. This is highly contradictory because I don't despise eating even if eating is purely selfish and for survival.

That story aside I do not to see the lack of difference between belief and doubt. To me, doubting is to question, believing is to not question. I haven't really experienced the collapse of dualities to be fair and I think that's something I will have to experience for myself.

22 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Believe - give credit to. Creed, Credit, as in credit cards, something that has to come before. BeliEVE, Eve, the mother of all, beli eve, belly of Eve

matrix (n.)

late 14c., matris, matrice, "uterus, womb," from Old French matrice "womb, uterus" and directly from Latin mātrix (genitive mātricis) "pregnant animal," in Late Latin "womb," also "source, origin," from māter (genitive mātris) "mother" (see mother (n.1)).

 

I like this definition about credits. I may be giving credit to this story about my project. I can see how that might just be a distraction from another greater problem, because a few days ago I was giving credit to the idea that my confusion about beliefs and no-self was the problem. In fact it may all tie back to the deep belief I mentionned I thought I had let go. (Which was the idea that I should be ashamed of myself). Here we go, full circle.

Thank you for the answers. I will continue to contemplate what beliefs are but I will try to not fall into the idea that "I can't be at peace right now because there's beliefs" anymore. Or at least I believe so.

Edited October 9, 2020 by 4201