What is mental illness from nondual perspective ?

[Gesundheit]

35 minutes ago, Nahm said:

But it is! The first believed thought it is not is actually delusion. I am not saying “you” are delusional. It’s not an attribute, it’s an appearance.

No!  There is no more ‘knowledge’ than there is a me or a sun.

No.  It’s literally empty! Nothing! 

Perhaps you took my feedback as criticism. Well, it's always up to you how you interpret it. Congrats on the empty head though.

We were just talking ordinarily, and in a blink of an eye, you shift into non-duality. But I guess I could complete the sentence on my own from the many samples I have of you: God is not ordinary. The first believed thought it is is actually delusion. _________. I guess I'll do it as homework.

[IAmReallyImportant]

The question is: "What is mental illness from a nondual perspective?"
In this case, I would suggest, for example, volunteering in a psychiatric hospital and directing your awareness to what is considered "mentally ill" until you finally become so.

I do not think that would feel comfortable. Remember that depression, for example, is also considered a mental illness. Thoughts and discussions would only distract from the actual topic you are having.

Imo the term "mental illness" is a scientific construct to keep society together. Try it and run naked through your neighborhood or city center, dance and hug people in a platonic way, sing songs and tell them about their experiences when you realized that you are God. Some really nice guys in white coats would probably come and ram a syringe into your ass.

[Nahm]

58 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Perhaps you took my feedback as criticism. Well, it's always up to you how you interpret it. Congrats on the empty head though.

That what you said was criticism had not occurred to me until you mentioned it. 

Quote

We were just talking ordinarily, and in a blink of an eye, you shift into non-duality.

Nonduality is not two. How can nonduality be shifted into? This is ‘it’, there is no ‘out of’ not two. This might bring to light a holding of nonduality as apart from something (idk what) else. ‘Ordinary talking’ is nonduality, and is not the ‘other thing’. 

Quote

But I guess I could complete the sentence on my own from the many samples I have of you: God is not ordinary. The first believed thought it is is actually delusion. _________. I guess I'll do it as homework.

God is common sense, unless thought makes it otherwise. 

[Gesundheit]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

That what you said was criticism had not occurred to me until you mentioned it. 

Nonduality is not two. How can nonduality be shifted into? This is ‘it’, there is no ‘out of’ not two. This might bring to light a holding of nonduality as apart from something (idk what) else. ‘Ordinary talking’ is nonduality, and is not the ‘other thing’. 

God is common sense, unless thought makes it otherwise. 

I was hoping that just for once you'd be willing to get off your high horse and just meet me at my level. Sounds like you're not interested. Just letting you know that now it's become disturbing, and it's not welcome anymore, so I'll stop right here and hope that you will reflect on your ways, if not now, at least someday.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Gesundheit
Grammar

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit

I see this as indicative of the topic. There is arguably no more of a “triggering” topic than understanding nonduality and mental illness. It intrinsically  includes the transversing of all that can be said to be disturbing.  I see that you see this as about “me” rather than the topic at hand, and I apologize without exemption for anything I said personally offensive to you. That was not at all the intention. There is no experience ‘at my end’ of you being on a ‘lower level’, nor of a me being on a ‘high horse’. 

 

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Someone here

I hear ya. ?

In a way, What is mental illness from nondual perspective?, is not a short order. Could be said to be the full circle of full circles. A certain actuality, or the transparency of seeing through ‘understanding’ “itself” is in order. Seeing through something, is seeing prior to something, and only ‘direct experience’ is this. But I digress, as I trust I am sounding crazier by the word!

 

Happily Ever Before.

[mandyjw]

@Gesundheit I've been reading Nahm's posts for a year and half now, almost daily. I still have to reeeally slow down and take my time. If one particularly strikes me or if I'm not getting it, I often read them 2, 3, 4 times, and often something shifts when I do. Trust me, it's really, really, really worth your time. 

[Nahm]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Happily Ever Before.

Exactly!

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

 

Imo the term "mental illness" is a scientific construct to keep society together. Try it and run naked through your neighborhood or city center, dance and hug people in a platonic way, sing songs and tell them about their experiences when you realized that you are God. Some really nice guys in white coats would probably come and ram a syringe into your ass.

I agree. it's kinda illegal to be insane no? ?

[mandyjw]

@Someone here I had OCD when I was a kid, I would hear in my head commands to do things that made me really uncomfortable. Sometimes it was to confess things.  I was able to recognize the disorder and stop taking the thoughts seriously by the time I entered high school and it never returned, except a touch of it every once in a while when I was running cross country or my mind was blank. It was gone until about a month or so before my awakening, at age 30. Then I realized that the impulses were leading me straight to what I wanted, but because what I wanted was what I thought was terrifying, I equated the impulses with intense suffering. Now I have with them daily and see them as a kind of sixth sense that doesn't care much about my own limited plans, ideas or schedule, but instead works only for my heart of hearts desires and they've led me to some pretty cool things. 

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Someone here I had OCD when I was a kid, I would hear in my head commands to do things that made me really uncomfortable. Sometimes it was to confess things.  I was able to recognize the disorder and stop taking the thoughts seriously by the time I entered high school and it never returned, except a touch of it every once in a while when I was running cross country or my mind was blank. It was gone until about a month or so before my awakening, at age 30. Then I realized that the impulses were leading me straight to what I wanted, but because what I wanted was what I thought was terrifying, I equated the impulses with intense suffering. Now I have with them daily and see them as a kind of sixth sense that doesn't care much about my own limited plans, ideas or schedule, but instead works only for my heart of hearts desires and they've led me to some pretty cool things. 

That's a nice transition.  I suffered from OCD at some point in My life as well.  And now it has me thinking.. Isn't thinking itself a form of OCD?  You described it as "hearing voices in my head".. We constantly hear voices in our head 24/7 right?  So what distinguishes OCD from normal mental background commentary?.  My point is when I view most of these so called mental disorders.. I see them perfectly "normal" from nondual perspective given how I now understand the self and the mind and how thoughts work. The illusion of "personality" etc. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Someone here

[IAmReallyImportant]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

I agree. it's kinda illegal to be insane no? ?

Is it insane to be happy, singing, dancing, hug people and talk about your experiences? If be people would be more cool they would turn on the music and dance as well I think it's more insane to walk around with an angry or sad face all the time and criticise other people to compensate for low self-esteem like people in Germany e.g. are used to.

If one would add up all the toxicity in at least Western culture it would probably include far more delusion than the sum of all 'mentally ill' persons in the world.

For me, mental illness is more like a degree of delusion, which doesn't allow to function in society or survive - besides the suffering it may includes for oneself.

I am not enlightent, but isnt it the case that a non-dual experience cannot be experienced from a place of falsehood? But mental illness is caused and based upon falsehood. So I guess it's not possible to experience mental illness from a non-dual perspective and therefore see it from that perspective. Experiencing mental illness must include the related feelings + monkey mind etc.. 

[Gesundheit]

19 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Gesundheit

I see this as indicative of the topic. There is arguably no more of a “triggering” topic than understanding nonduality and mental illness. It intrinsically  includes the transversing of all that can be said to be disturbing.  I see that you see this as about “me” rather than the topic at hand, and I apologize without exemption for anything I said personally offensive to you. That was not at all the intention. There is no experience ‘at my end’ of you being on a ‘lower level’, nor of a me being on a ‘high horse’.

Being unaware does not excuse you. You're on a personal development forum. Take feedback, expand your awareness, and learn.

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit

...Huh?

[Nivsch]

On 8.10.2020 at 8:53 PM, Gesundheit said:

Health is a highly subjective matter, especially when it comes to psychology. Who's to say whether a psychopath is mentally ill or just being authentic, and why is authenticity favored over mental illness? Who's to say whether authenticity is a good thing or not? And who's to say whether we should be doing good things or not? In the end, it becomes obvious that all categories must collapse and that none of them is actually true. But we're egos and like to set things the way we like, which is most likely, in accordance to our egoic needs. We're all just egos fighting to spread each one's own narrative. We like life customized to fit us perfectly.

But the suffering invovled in some mental states are too high to not want to change them. 

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But the suffering invovled in some mental states are too high to not want to change them. 

Of course, but who's to say suffering isn't healthy?

[No Self]

From a nondual perspective, almost all of humanity is mentally ill.

Given its genocidal treatment of the animal kingdom, and its grandiose sense of self, would humanity not meet the criterial for narcissistic personality disorder? Given its crimes against humanity, do we not have conduct disorder/antisocial personality disorder? We could go on...

Without the sense of separation (us vs. them), this illness would not manifest. Individuals with particularly acute symptoms will be labelled as mentally ill, but we dare not diagnose the majority.

[Nahm]

@No Self

Absolutely.