Proof of Free Will: Why Compatibilism is Correct!

[r0ckyreed]

So I have been studying existentialism, and the basic idea is that we cannot control what happens to us.  The only thing we can control is how we respond.  Even though, the ego is an illusion, which would be considered the chooser of a choice, choice is what a product of God.  Since God is experiencing a human, God has free will that is limited to human experience.  Sure, there are neurodevelopmental disorders and all kinds of things that can impair our choices, but we still have the ability to respond to life.  

We can respond rather than react.  Determinism is all about cause and effect.  It is very materialistic, and claims that there is no choice being made.  But, the Universe to me is not like a clock, but rather like an Intelligent Mind.  If the Universe is Infinite, that means it can do anything it wants and does not want.  There is no cause and effect or rules because all of those happen within the Subjectivity of Mind or God.

I think there is an experiential way of verifying Free Will.  Alan Watts describes free will and determinism as related to the process of breathing.  Breathing is both something that we do and also some that happens to us.  There are two perspectives on this.  1. Everything is happening to us and I am like a puppet.  Or 2. I am God and I am controlling the entire Universe.  Both perspectives are true because Voluntary and Involuntary are one.  Free will and determinism collapse at the absolute perspective.  There is no boundary that separates what is voluntary action and involuntary.

So what is a choice?  A choice is our ability to respond rather than react to life.  A choice can be thinking about different things, which is produced by involuntary things like neurons in brain.  But choice is also not just thinking about different options, but the ability to Act on them too.  So I guess, no choice is totally "free" of external influences, but the whole idea is that it is not just Free Will or Determinism, it is rather that both exist and are inseparable since everything is One.  We cannot have voluntary action without involuntary, and we cannot have involuntary without voluntary.  

We can increase our Free Will or our ability to respond, but the level of Consciousness that we are at.  For instance, if I am at low consciousness, I may be more reactive.  If someone tells me to think of a purple elephant, I will think of it, but if I meditate and gain discipline over the mind, I will be able to control it.  Also when people insult me, if I am low consciousness, I will react and not really have free will.  It will be almost like a reflex, but if I meditate and evolve myself and realize that I don't have to play their social game (meta skill), then I can choose to be offended or peaceful.

There it is! Please let me know what you think.  This is a tough question because I did consider the possibility that since ego is illusion, choice may also be illusion because there is nobody choosing, but at the same time, there is no difference between illusion and reality.  So to say that everything is an illusion is also to say that everything is real.  Right?  What does it mean to say that something exists or is an illusion?  Is there really any difference?  I mean isn't that what an illusion is?  That something appears to exist, which everything does appear and disappear through the law of impermanence.  So I guess there really are no objects in the entire universe that could exist?

 

Thank you sorry for the rambling, I was contemplating as I was typing.  Please let me know your thoughts!

 

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

If someone tells me to think of a purple elephant, I will think of it, but if I meditate and gain discipline over the mind, I will be able to control it.  

Do NOT think of a pink elephant.. 

 

If you did... Free will debunked. 

If you didn't.. Free will debunked. 

?

Ya see it's not "you" who thinks or not think.  For whom is the free will?

Try to Rewrite your post without using the words "I".. "me" or "we".

[Opaltri]

What if awareness comes from free will, so you can't see your free will? 

[VincentArogya]

If you had free will, you should be able to control the functions of your body, your sexual arousals, all your emotions, secretions of your glands, and basically all bodily sensations. However, since we have a little control over actions like being conscious of where we go, who we talk to, what we eat, we think that we have free will and choice. 

Try to see if you are really in control of your thoughts (which includes choice and free will) and if you think that you are, you should be able to stop your thoughts too. 

If you realize that you can't stop your thoughts, the question of free will and choice will disappear automatically.

And choice is also an interesting concept, which suggests choosing one over the other. There's is no other. There is just one single being. Therefore, all choices made is fundamentally free will.

[NoSelfSelf]

You dont have a choice even how you will respond...who will choose the exact reaction you want its all govern by the conciousness/mind that you think you control you can only give life to the experience...

[r0ckyreed]

Remember, there is no separation between choice and happening, voluntary and involuntary, God and ego, or reality and illusion. They go together. Choice is happening. Voluntary action is involuntary. God is ego. Reality is illusion. Limitations are what define reality and make choice a possibility. Seeing and breathing are both happening to me and I as God am choosing to see and breathe. There is no separation between what you do and what happens to you. They all go together.Right?

The essence of who I am seems to be Consciousness. It is the no-mind that can be reached when you silence thoughts. It is interesting how people say that you are not your thoughts, but if you are not your thoughts, you are creating a duality. If you are not your thoughts, then how is it possible that you can silence what is not you?

By you, I mean I don’t mean The Wizard of OZ of your mind, I mean The Pure Awareness that has always been there. Since you are The Infinite, you also have free will! If the Infinite didn’t have free will, what would control the Infinite??

Edited October 7, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Try to Rewrite your post without using the words... "you”, “your”, “not you”, or “whom”. 

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Someone here

Try to Rewrite your post without using the words... "you”, “your”, “not you”, or “whom”. 

22 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

If someone tells me to think of a purple elephant, I will think of it, but if I meditate and gain discipline over the mind, I will be able to control it.  

Do NOT think of a pink elephant.. 

 

If thinking happens..  Free will debunked. 

If thinking didn't happen.. . Free will debunked. 

 

see its not a "thinker "who thinks or not think.  For" what " is the free will? 

Try to Rewrite the post without using the words "I".. "me" or "we".

? 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

‘Free will’ is thinking, like ‘the finite mind is a concept’, is thinking. Or, a thought, rather. 

[Someone here]

32 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Someone here

‘Free will’ is thinking. 

Yes sir.  Now you just took it to a whole new level lol. 

[Brittany]

On 10/7/2020 at 4:41 AM, VincentArogya said:

And choice is also an interesting concept, which suggests choosing one over the other. There's is no other. There is just one single being. 

I love this.

[LastThursday]

On 07/10/2020 at 5:13 AM, r0ckyreed said:

choice may also be illusion because there is nobody choosing

Choice is too vague a thing to argue about. At which point is a choice made? Is it:

• When it arises in awareness?
• When you commit mentally to do one thing or another?
• When the physical action starts to take place?
• When the physical action finishes?

Is a choice without a resultant action really a choice at all?

Can an action take place without a choice? For example breathing?

Do all actions happen as a result of a choice made either consciously or unconciously?

Or does stuff just happen and we pretend that I made a choice after the fact? because all action requires agency by a sentient being?

Dunno. Questions questions.

[Nahm]

@LastThursday

Ever moved? 

[zeroISinfinity]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@LastThursday

Ever moved? 

Oh you Absolutist. 

Hmm questioned how @VeganAwakerelates to his wife. But to consider you is serious philosophical question. 

[Nahm]

@zeroISinfinity

Funny you mention wives. Went for a walk, just got home, said “I’m back”...wife said “you think so huh?”. Lol. Gd absolutists. 

( Also, didn’t mean prior post as a ‘topper’ or ‘absolutist’, or even ‘in addition’, but inquisitively applicable to what was said prior. Sorry to out you as the true absolutist. It’s just something that happens.)

[zeroISinfinity]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@zeroISinfinity

Funny you mention wives. Went for a walk, just got home, said “I’m back”...wife said “you think so huh?”. Lol. Gd absolutists. 

Not in mood for talk about wives and for sure agressive best man. Hey you'll get sliwowica, no worries. Not really liking where all this is heading. 

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

( Also, didn’t mean prior post as a ‘topper’ or ‘absolutist’, or even ‘in addition’, but inquisitively applicable to what was said prior.

Yada yada yada non dual talk. Let go, relax, drink coffee like me. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Sorry to out you as the true absolutist.

Pls don't expose me. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

It’s just something that happens.)

Yes neo advaita ftw.

Love you, wish you well and prepare for yet another psychotic breakdown. 

[Nahm]

1 minute ago, zeroISinfinity said:

ftw

?

[zeroISinfinity]

58 minutes ago, Nahm said:

?

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[SpiritualAwakening]

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Choice is too vague a thing to argue about. At which point is a choice made? Is it:

• When it arises in awareness?
• When you commit mentally to do one thing or another?
• When the physical action starts to take place?
• When the physical action finishes?

Is a choice without a resultant action really a choice at all?

Can an action take place without a choice? For example breathing?

Do all actions happen as a result of a choice made either consciously or unconciously?

Or does stuff just happen and we pretend that I made a choice after the fact? because all action requires agency by a sentient being?

Dunno. Questions questions.

 

Choice is eternal and can happen at any moment and anywhere within and outside of time and space. Choice is made by consciousness, yet Which choice is made is limited and dependent on the experience of that consciousness

Breathing happens because of the choice of consciousness dependent on the amount of experience of that consciousness, it wants to experience, but one who has a more compact consciousness for example might agree with the thought that it could end its experience by ending it's life. Therefore choices are dependent on consciousness

In breathing we have choice and have no choice

because one could choose to end life and therefore end the breathing process. The choice of that action is valid in that moment But the action of ending its life in the end is an illusion. So until the moment consciousness realizes it's an illusion. It will stay valid. Therefore the Truth to this matter to each individual is dependent of perception. 

To the breathing process in itself there is no choice to it, it's automated by the attraction and repulsion of the universe. For example a baby is not aware of breathing  it just does. If you sleep you are not aware if you're breathing or not because your consciousness is not here but somewhere else.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by SpiritualAwakening

[Carl-Richard]

On 7.10.2020 at 6:13 AM, r0ckyreed said:

If someone tells me to think of a purple elephant, I will think of it, but if I meditate and gain discipline over the mind, I will be able to control it.

Meditation is about discovering that you're not in control and never will be, and in giving up the need to control, you actually gain control. If there is nothing you need to control, then you're actually fully in control. The idea that you have to do something in order to gain control already assumes that you're not already in control. There is nothing you need to do: you're in control.