Why is consciousness not an illusion

[zeroISinfinity]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness is nothing.

Nothing is real.

Nothing is Love, Nothing is God. Love is real and it's everything and you are it. 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Nahm]

This ain’t the twoniverse. 

[Gesundheit]

You got it right my friend. Although you can deepen your understanding. But anyway, ideologues will not be able to understand what you said. They will pour in all of their ego and dogmas onto you trying to convince you that consciousness is real. It's a complex problem that I understand but don't have the capacity to talk about, but yes, you're on the right track.

[Adamq8]

@Gesundheit How have you come to this conclusion?

[Gesundheit]

1 minute ago, Adamq8 said:

@Gesundheit How have you come to this conclusion?

Which one?

[Adamq8]

@Gesundheit that conciousness is an illusion, curious to hear 

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

@Gesundheit that conciousness is an illusion, curious to hear 

Well, what is this thing called "consciousness"? Where is it? Can you point to it? Generally, the word "consciousness" refers to a certain phenomenon that is attributed to living creatures. If this is the case here, then clearly consciousness is not universal because, for example, rocks aren't living/conscious beings.

Alternative answer: from the paradigm of "consciousness is everything", our tool of measurement here is consciousness itself (the phenomenon). It is the thing we're using to make this conclusion. Therefore this conclusion inherently biased and not at all even remotely true.

Wanted to elaborate more but unfortunately I don't have the capacity to talk in depth very easily.

[Adamq8]

@Gesundheit  thank you for your explanation

No i would say that you can't point to conciousness, what is being aware of being aware? You can never point to it cause it is prior to everything somehow, if you take away all senses what is it left then?

An awareness of existing, put somehow it can't turn around and point to itself, sometimes i feel like iam just a dot in the head, but what can then be aware of it? It is just a strange endless loop somehow.

 

 But i am not sure that consciousness is all that there is, it might as well been from evolution and we live in a finite universe and all will return to the blackness, the entire universe and nothing will remain.

But it becomes really questionable after a real deep psychedelic trip, why does it feel like i am GOD? How can i get so profoundly deep insights into what conciousness really is? Or what reality is?  Like it was preprogrammed in the mind.

That makes you lean towards that consciousness is all that there is and it is infinite,  but after a while your back to ego self and the finite feeling comes back, it might be a survival thing cause deep down we know we are finite or it might be that deep down we know we are infinite and we have always been here but it is fucked up to be infinite and never die and be one being in "existence"  so we want to experience how it feels to die. 

Anyway thats where i am at ?

Edited October 7, 2020 by Adamq8

[lmfao]

@arlin It could be an illusion. A distinction between consciousness and not-consciousness has been made. 

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Well, what is this thing called "consciousness"? Where is it? Can you point to it? Generally, the word "consciousness" refers to a certain phenomenon that is attributed to living creatures. If this is the case here, then clearly consciousness is not universal because, for example, rocks aren't living/conscious beings.

Alternative answer: from the paradigm of "consciousness is everything", our tool of measurement here is consciousness itself (the phenomenon). It is the thing we're using to make this conclusion. Therefore this conclusion inherently biased and not at all even remotely true.

Wanted to elaborate more but unfortunately I don't have the capacity to talk in depth very easily.

These are some interesting conclusions but surely not “conclusive”, not coming from a man of your standards and broad reasonable analysis, no?

 unless of course you assume your conclusions are more valid than those you’ve said aren’t?

but that would be very double standard and hypocritical and a man of your standard is not ?

what would happen if you actually didn’t know either way, and lived from that blank slate. 

[Mu_]

@arlin you’ve gotten a lot of good answers however if you feel like it’s what actually is, then stand by it. 

Or do you not actually know?  

Stand by what is most true for you even if it means you have no idea. Which honestly is a great place to be. It may not be easy because your then left with being alone with yourself while others are saying otherwise about the world and it’s affairs, but this is where a wise man becomes. 

[Shin]

@arlin

Technically speaking, there is no way to know if anything has consciousness (from the scientific paradigm we live in).

How would you know if a rock has consciousness or not ? You could say "it hasn't a brain, so it just can't", that would be assuming consciousness comes from the brain (what about animals without brain ?). This is an assumption that comes from science telling us that consciousness must come from the brain, even though they can't prove anything about it, and still struggle to even define what consciousness is.

Do you ever had a dream where you weren't anything in particular ? Where you where just spectator of experiences happening ? Or perhaps a dream where you could be a woman one second, then the man you were fucking the next moment ? What about the one where you were nothing in particular, then realized you were an object ?

Not drawing any conclusions here, but maybe consciousness is something that isn't really anything in particular, or maybe it is something that encompass everything in itself.

Can be a lot of things if you're open to it and just sit silently without trying to "get it" in your head, but just really open to what the answer might be.
If you really want to be open to the truth, whatever it might be, that implies that you really don't know the answer yet, as in really have no clue whatsoever.

Would the answer of your question even be an answer if "consciousness" is something that transcend everything (even your own mind) ?
Or could it be something you're already experiencing right now but aren't paying attention to it, because it is too obvious and mundain ?

Don't try to "get it" with your head, just read those questions and sit silently.

You'd be surprised how much you can discover by doing nothing at all

 

 

[SpiritualAwakening]

Basically everything within the paradigm (time and space) is an illusion, except for Love. Now, each individual perception of this Love may differ in depth and broadness. Not to mention those who cannot differentiate between Mind and Heart (thoughts and feel). Outside the paradigm (So through perception) there is only consciousness stripped from it's illusions constructed by itself.

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Well, what is this thing called "consciousness"? Where is it? Can you point to it? Generally, the word "consciousness" refers to a certain phenomenon that is attributed to living creatures. If this is the case here, then clearly consciousness is not universal because, for example, rocks aren't living/conscious beings.

Alternative answer: from the paradigm of "consciousness is everything", our tool of measurement here is consciousness itself (the phenomenon). It is the thing we're using to make this conclusion. Therefore this conclusion inherently biased and not at all even remotely true.

Wanted to elaborate more but unfortunately I don't have the capacity to talk in depth very easily.

As long as one attaches to the illusion of thought, one can never be freed of this conditioning and therefore can never be free of this notion of 'past'. only through the experience within the present moment can consciousness observe itself and therefore realize the observer is the observed. Then it Sees the totality of life.

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

As long as one attaches to the illusion of thought, 

There is no ONE that attaches to thought.

The One that is or isn't attached, is the illusion...?

I get what you're saying though ❤

 

[Origins]

There's too many assumptions embedded in the notion of "to be conscious of", we have no reference frame for comparing this and because most researchers and intellectuals that talk about it never consider adding in contrast to their perception of consciousness they turn consciousness into way more than a big deal than it likely really is.

This then creates a whole culture about "consciousness" and "higher consciousness" and so on when in reality most of these people have literally no idea what they're talking about, it just feels good to them to feel like they do and they justify it with the contrast embedded in their social reference frame where they compare their actions relative to their consciousness with the rest of the social environment and how it seems other people experience and interact with their consciousness.

The whole culture of consciousness is wrought with delusion.

My interpretations change depending on the context of my use of the word but in the practical sense, consciousness has no words, it's just an action. Give it words and you've lost consciousness. The thing you're conscious of is the bias that you're conscious, its simply like blood flow around the body, from afar Earth has created beings who self-referentially refer to themselves through their reward centre when their intelligence perceives an object. That's not consciousness, that's mis-wiring. To be conscious, we must somehow be separate to the thing that enables us to be conscious (not possible), otherwise we're simply the thing that enabled us to be conscious, thus we're a byproduct of a byproduct that produces byproducts. To be "conscious" then is just like an airport waiting for passengers/thoughts/feelings to take them somewhere just as an inner/outer action does. 

That "conscious" aspect is just us as an airport, and an airport is merely an action that facilitates actions in transition from the highest intersection, which in our case is the world adjacent within us where actions can be either expressed/suppressed inwardly/outwardly.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Origins

[VeganAwake]

Maybe the feeling that there's something that needs to change is the corporate for this seemingly unnecessary longing for things to be other than what they are.

[Origins]

So for me, I'd totally remove the word consciousness and just have intelligence there. 

The whole thing is total hogwash to me. It's created a ruinous (very unhealthy) culture.

Thus from now on that's how I'll be personally conceptualising myself, we're just a system of intelligence wrapped up in various structures that enable that intelligence to unfold, much like pollen in a flower and what it smells like. We're only ever conscious of something relative to already expressed parameters that we've already given a name to, we've called it intelligence. To be conscious of something is to be cognisant.

Intelligence gives us a place to go, a proper utility, its the recognition of us as a continuous feedback loop as opposed to consciousness which somehow assumes a stationary place in a continuous dynamic loop. Intelligence has many things to it, social, emotional, pattern based, and more, along with many overlaps with processing speed and more. 

We're giving a name to a thing that already has a name, worse than that, we're describing it in such a way that lends to meanings that have no value in the real world, for it to have real value in the real world it would have to have applicability to a tangible measure. It doesn't even have real value to the mental world because its less descriptive and has less meaning to being just the subsidiary (it comes after some aspects of intelligence) and preliminary (it comes before some aspects of intelligence) components to intelligence. 

We all have a unique responsibility when it comes clearing up not just the trash around the environment but the trash around our use of words and their meanings. It becomes a huge problem of course when we've created a culture about nothing because then there's still all those people that will continue that bandwagon effect, like trying to get people to buy electric vehicles as opposed to those that run on gasoline, its a nightmare trying to get people to wakeup haha.

[VeganAwake]

Maybe words that confuse the mind are beneficial?

There's no individual unique responsibility.... that's just a conditioned preconceived notion... that there's something that needs to be done.

Nothing really needs to be done, only a conditioned thought would say otherwise.

Everything is perfect just the way it is because it is what it is.

But that doesn't mean you can't go out to change the world, if that's what happens then that's what's happening.

That's how free it is ❤

Edited October 8, 2020 by VeganAwake

[zeroISinfinity]

36 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Maybe words that confuse the mind are beneficial?

There's no individual unique responsibility.... that's just a conditioned preconceived notion... that there's something that needs to be done.

Nothing really needs to be done, only a conditioned thought would say otherwise.

Everything is perfect just the way it is because it is what it is.

But that doesn't mean you can't go out to change the world, if that's what happens then that's what's happening.

That's how free it is ❤

You do indeed speak with your wife in this way? 

It’s funny because it's true. 

Not surprised. 

She will leave you if you don't add some Love talk from time to time . 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by zeroISinfinity