Why doesn't girls understand the challanges guys face when trying to attract a girl?

[SamC]

 

Everytime I bring up the challenges for guys in daiting to my female friends, they are unable to understand my point of view. They either say I am wrong, that it is the woman that is always is the one that is left or that I am participating in this egoistic game when I explain to them how to attract a female. They can't understand that guys struggle too,  they only see the guy they are in love with but leave them.

My question is therefor, why is that woman seems to be blind to the the challenges that guys face? Is it because woman haven't learned to sympathize to the guys that struggle with this or are they stuck in there own self biases? Could it be that It even is biological and if so - is it ever possible for a woman to learn to step out from her perspective and into a man's perspective? What do you think?

*** NOTE ****

 I am not saying men are victims to womans lack of understanding at all, it is what it is. How Attraction and the interaction between the sexes works, is fine. All I am wondering is, if it's ever possible for females to understand men's struggles, or if its by design impossible.  

 

 

@Leo Gura

Edited October 6, 2020 by SamC

[Origins]

One of the underlying things here, and it relates to many different kinds of social conflicts and separations.

Experiential gap.

They cannot imagine where you are coming from, and maybe to an extent, you can't imagine where they're coming from. 

Think of the situation involving racism for example, racism exists simply because in the exact moment of racism the perpetrator is simply unable to imagine what it's like being the person of a different race.

The same thing happens between the sexes or just anyone of any meaningful variation from social class to social status, etc.

I recently a couple of comments ago made a response to "criticisms about Leo", not that most persons are capable of adequately doing so, how many people do you wonder have placed themselves in Leo's experience and truly contemplated his position? That's often the best strategy when we're experiencing that kind of conflict, if we notice that the other party isn't doing this, we should do it and strategise accordingly. Like if someone is being racist to me, I will mentally try to close that experiential gap and adapt accordingly relative to the best strategy I've discerned. The benefit this will give you is that it'll enable you to both be empathic and boundaried at the same time. 

 

[JosephKnecht]

5 hours ago, SamC said:

I am participating in this egoistic game when I explain to them how to attract a female.

You can't rationalize attraction. While you are explaining to them, you are trying to rationalize attraction.

Attraction works on a subconscious level. When you desire a woman, you are attracted by her presence, but you don't understand the reason for the attraction. Attraction comes first, rationalization of the attraction comes after the fact. 

5 hours ago, SamC said:

My question is therefor, why is that woman seems to be blind to the the challenges that guys face?

Maybe you are blind to the challenges women face... 

As a man, it is your duty to approach, to improve, to learn, and to grow. You can take your pick among all the women and approach and date whomever you want.

As a girl, socially you are only allowed to accept and submit to the attention of the guys who showed interested in you. Therefore, you have less choice. 

If you were born again, would you rather be born a man or a woman?

[Origins]

Just to follow up on my previous comment I've now just come up with the idea of thinking of the experiential gap as a creative tool that can be applied towards both oneself (all forms of self in the context of time - past, future, etc), another and literally all life. 

I've synthesised it into being encapsulated in the form of a 360 degree experiential gap ring.

So right now I'm probably at about 20 degrees of its capability, but yeah, its amazing actually if you have this ability (which can be improved). Test it out on yourself not just others as I initially noted by whenever you experience any kind of negative stimulus, just imagine a clone of yourself for example experiencing that negative stimulus/experience and then try to bridge that experiential gap, you notice a completely fresh understanding of that experience emerge. 

My goal is to now maximise not just my knowledge of the 360 degree experiential gap but be able to reach its limits as much as possible at all times. 

Because it doesn't just have various qualitative reference frames it also has quantitative reference frames as well, like how many reference frames of the same qualitative one or number of qualitative frames in general. 

This is an advanced tool for anyone looking to further their self awareness and empathy in general. It's a little more complicated than regular empathy, something which I think scientists have still only barely understood at least as its reflected in the scientific literature.

[SamC]

43 minutes ago, Origins said:

One of the underlying things here, and it relates to many different kinds of social conflicts and separations.

Experiential gap.

They cannot imagine where you are coming from, and maybe to an extent, you can't imagine where they're coming from. 

Think of the situation involving racism for example, racism exists simply because in the exact moment of racism the perpetrator is simply unable to imagine what it's like being the person of a different race.

The same thing happens between the sexes or just anyone of any meaningful variation from social class to social status, etc.

I recently a couple of comments ago made a response to "criticisms about Leo", not that most persons are capable of adequately doing so, how many people do you wonder have placed themselves in Leo's experience and truly contemplated his position? That's often the best strategy when we're experiencing that kind of conflict, if we notice that the other party isn't doing this, we should do it and strategise accordingly. Like if someone is being racist to me, I will mentally try to close that experiential gap and adapt accordingly relative to the best strategy I've discerned. The benefit this will give you is that it'll enable you to both be empathic and boundaried at the same time. 

 

Yeah bro; for sure! It's a we versus them dynamic that creates. The thing is however that most girls doesn't seem to be able to do this for some reason and I simply wonder why.

I understand, that woman have it super super fucking hard whensome player firat leaves them or someone just uses them for sex. I get it ( atleast logicially) but from my experience girls can't do this as well as men can understand girls problems. I encourge you to try look for it yourself and draw your own conclusions. Maybe I am wrong but I think a lot of guys have the same experience.

Again, I am not saying it is wrong, weird or even that it shouldn't be like that. I just find it super facinting that they struggle to see the struggles that a lot, and I mean a lot, of guys struggle with. 

(:

[Thestarguitarist14]

It is because most women do not know what they want.  They have no idea what they are actually attracted to.  They have no idea what it takes to attract them.

[SamC]

57 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

You can't rationalize attraction. While you are explaining to them, you are trying to rationalize attraction 

Not sure what you mean. I explained  some principals for attracting females to my female friends for fun - not to attract them. I told them the mechanics of attraction and that girls are more selective than guys and that guys who is not considered valuable by girls- wont be getting pussy. 

Quote

Attraction works on a subconscious level. When you desire a woman, you are attracted by her presence, but you don't understand the reason for the attraction. Attraction comes first, rationalization of the attraction comes after the fact. 

No, not necicerly. What are guys attracted to?  ( simplified af version)

Hot girls. Boobs, a pretty face and a big but.

What are girls attracted to?

Personality, confidence, authenticity, humor ect

 

57 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

You can't rationalize attraction. While you are 

Maybe you are blind to the challenges women face... 

As a man, it is your duty to approach, to improve, to learn, and to grow. You can take your pick among all the women and approach and date whomever you want.

As a girl, socially you are only allowed to accept and submit to the attention of the guys who showed interested in you. Therefore, you have less choice. 

I totally get it. It's super hard for girls aswell and they have different problems...

Sexual harassment, players who leave them after they have built the emotional bond trough sex, being judged solely on your looks ect. The question is not that, the question is - why does it seem that girls struggle to see that there are real men out there who is struggling. A lot of girls would rather be a man, without realizing the consequences of being a man. They see the pros, not the cons.

And yeah, it's true - being a man has a lot of benefits, but that's true for being a woman aswell. Girls doesn't have to submit to a guy who shows attention to her too, she can hit a highquality guy up on IG , I mean its 2020 right... and quess what, I think he would reply ?? ((; The question is however.. who is that guy? It's not the lonely incel guy that I can tell. Lmao. Who got most choices really? You see what I mean?

Quote

If you were born again, would you rather be born a man or a woman?

Male 100%. I like the chase and I love girls. I wonder what a lot of frustrated woman would choose though. A lot of them surely sometimes whish they would be a guy. 

 

( Listen to the song - " if I was a boy") It tells exactly this beautifully if you listen to the lyrics

Again it's fine this is the case. I am just eager to understand Whyyy. Because it's fun and facinating!?

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by SamC

[SamC]

27 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

It is because most women do not know what they want.  They have no idea what they are actually attracted to.  They have no idea what it takes to attract them.

Exactly! But why is it so? Like wtf, I for sure know what I like lmao. Girls are more EMOTIONAL and guys are VISUAL... but if that's the case wouldn't girls be able to understand us better than we can understand them? From my experience it is the opposite. Never ask a girl about guy problems and definitely don't ask them about how to attract a girl. They don't have a clue.

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Origins said:

One of the underlying things here, and it relates to many different kinds of social conflicts and separations.

Experiential gap.

They cannot imagine where you are coming from, and maybe to an extent, you can't imagine where they're coming from. 

Think of the situation involving racism for example, racism exists simply because in the exact moment of racism the perpetrator is simply unable to imagine what it's like being the person of a different race.

The same thing happens between the sexes or just anyone of any meaningful variation from social class to social status, etc.

I recently a couple of comments ago made a response to "criticisms about Leo", not that most persons are capable of adequately doing so, how many people do you wonder have placed themselves in Leo's experience and truly contemplated his position? That's often the best strategy when we're experiencing that kind of conflict, if we notice that the other party isn't doing this, we should do it and strategise accordingly. Like if someone is being racist to me, I will mentally try to close that experiential gap and adapt accordingly relative to the best strategy I've discerned. The benefit this will give you is that it'll enable you to both be empathic and boundaried at the same time. 

 

Thanks for the share!

[Preety_India]

 

 

58 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

You can't rationalize attraction. While you are explaining to them, you are trying to rationalize attraction.

Attraction works on a subconscious level. When you desire a woman, you are attracted by her presence, but you don't understand the reason for the attraction. Attraction comes first, rationalization of the attraction comes after the fact. 

Maybe you are blind to the challenges women face... 

As a man, it is your duty to approach, to improve, to learn, and to grow. You can take your pick among all the women and approach and date whomever you want.

As a girl, socially you are only allowed to accept and submit to the attention of the guys who showed interested in you. Therefore, you have less choice. 

If you were born again, would you rather be born a man or a woman?

 

Beautifully and eloquently presented answer. 

 

Props to you. At least one guy gets it, the challenges faced by women. 

I'm sick of the rhetoric that only men face challenges in pickup. It's too one sided 

Thanks for the response, I had the same thoughts but couldn't have put it like you. 

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 minutes ago, SamC said:

Exactly! But why is it so? Like wtf, I for sure know what I like lmao. Girls are more EMOTIONAL and guys are VISUAL... but if that's the case wouldn't girls be able to understand us better than we can understand them? From my experience it is the opposite. Never ask a girl about guy problems and definitely don't ask them about how to attract a girl. They don't have a clue.

The thing is that while women are more emotional, it tends to be more inwards.  Not empathetic.  At its worst these women are narcissists or borderlines.  Basically women use emotions to navigate their way through life.  While guys use logic.  Which is why most guys don’t understand why women act like they do.

The only women who understand men are women who are in touch with their masculine side and actually like men.  Ever wonder why women prefer to hangout with their girlfriends rather than their boyfriends and husband?  It is because most women do not like men.

[Applegarden]

Because if you desire a girl and society has a standard that you should initiate, she doesn't even have to think about challenges you face attracting her. She is more worried about how to be attractive.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Applegarden

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Applegarden said:

The only women who understand men are women who are in touch with their masculine side and actually like men.  Ever wonder why women prefer to hangout with their girlfriends rather than their boyfriends and husband?  It is because most women do not like men.

Sorry apple, you didn't say it. 

9 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

.

The only women who understand men are women who are in touch with their masculine side and actually like men.  Ever wonder why women prefer to hangout with their girlfriends rather than their boyfriends and husband?  It is because most women do not like men.

 

I could say the same about men. That the only men who understand women are men who are in touch with their feminine side and actually like women for who they are. Ever wonder why men prefer to hangout with their boyfriends at a beer stop rather than their wives. It is because most men do not like women. 

This argument has flaws. Women love men. Men fail to see it. Women get abused and cheated and rejected just like men. If men love women, women love men as well. 

Women also go through hurt in relationships. 

[SamC]

 

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

 

 

Beautifully and eloquently presented answer. 

 

Props to you. At least one guy gets it, the challenges faced by women. 

I'm sick of the rhetoric that only men face challenges in pickup. It's too one sided 

Thanks for the response, I had the same thoughts but couldn't have put it like you. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, SamC said:

Not sure what you mean. I explained  some principals for attracting females to my female friends for fun - not to attract them. I told them the mechanics of attraction and that girls are more selective than guys and that guys who is not considered valuable by girls- wont be getting pussy. 

No, not necicerly. What are guys attracted to?  ( simplified af version)

Hot girls. Boobs, a pretty face and a big but.

What are girls attracted to?

Personality, confidence, authenticity, humor ect

 

I totally get it. It's super hard for girls aswell and they have different problems...

Sexual harassment, players who leave them after they have built the emotional bond trough sex, being judged solely on your looks ect. The question is not that, the question is - why does it seem that girls struggle to see that there are real men out there who is struggling. A lot of girls would rather be a man, without realizing the consequences of being a man. They see the pros, not the cons.

And yeah, it's true - being a man has a lot of benefits, but that's true for being a woman aswell. Girls doesn't have to submit to a guy who shows attention to her too, she can hit a highquality guy up on IG , I mean its 2020 right... and quess what, I think he would reply ?? ((; The question is however.. who is that guy? It's not the lonely incel guy that I can tell. Lmao. Who got most choices really? You see what I mean?

Male 100%. I like the chase and I love girls. I wonder what a lot of frustrated woman would choose though. A lot of them surely sometimes whish they would be a guy. 

 

( Listen to the song - " if I was a boy") It tells exactly this beautifully if you listen to the lyrics

Again it's fine this is the case. I am just eager to understand Whyyy. Because it's fun and facinating!?

 

I read your post about pick up earlier today. I understand that you feel misunderstood by a lot of guys, that you feel frustrated, and that you can´t find a high-quality guy who doesn´t leave you or whatever, Its a real struggle.. I get it, its hard af. I have seen a lot of my female friends suffer. Many of them feel misunderstood, used, and manipulated for sex. 

I encourage you to read my reply, to the answer. Yeah, a lot of girls struggle and I am not saying you or anyone aren´t, but its a different kind of struggle. almost the opposite problem actually,  The question is, however, do you see that opposite problem that guys struggle with? Is it possible for a woman to see it? And if not, why is that? (;

I'm not saying its bad or that you should. I am simply interested if you and other girls can, cause if not - that's interesting af ((;

[Thestarguitarist14]

35 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Sorry apple, you didn't say it. 

 

I could say the same about men. That the only men who understand women are men who are in touch with their feminine side and actually like women for who they are. Ever wonder why men prefer to hangout with their boyfriends at a beer stop rather than their wives. It is because most men do not like women. 

This argument has flaws. Women love men. Men fail to see it. Women get abused and cheated and rejected just like men. If men love women, women love men as well. 

Women also go through hurt in relationships. 

I mean yeah, men who are in touch with their feminine side usually will understand women more.  The reason why more men are not is due to the constant shamming by stage red, purple and orange men.  It’s kind of like how girls are shamed when they are young for being Tom boys.

 

And yes, most men do not like women either. I am not denying that.

 

You say women love men.  Love is different from liking.  And most people’s definition of love is control.  Most women seek to control their men.  When in reality they don’t appreciate their guy for who he is.  They don’t care.  
 

Men do love women.  The problem is that a lot of guys are left to their own devices when it comes to learning about them and get swallowed up.  Some women are straight up predators who will suck you dry.

 

BTW, I prefer hanging out with women over men any day.  The works would be a more peaceful place if more women were in power.  A lot less wars.  Men are assholes.  But the reason that they are is because they believe that they have to be in order to survive.  And I will say that women prefer assholes to weak men. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[SamC]

27 minutes ago, Applegarden said:

Because if you desire a girl and society has a standard that you should initiate, she doesn't even have to think about challenges you face attracting her. She is more worried about how to be attractive.

well, its not mainly that. girls like confident guys and its fine. it´s not the societys fault. males do the chasing and females are the selective ones. Its a mammal thing apparently. its true though, that girls are to busy to care about themselves, I mean after all - they need to find a high quality mate. It´s nature, its biologi -- It´s PSYCHOLOGY. Not bad nor good - just a feature of the design we call life and survival.

[Preety_India]

 

@SamC

The simple answer is - both struggle. 

The only difference is men's struggles are very visible because they are allowed to whine about it 

 

Whereas women tend to be silent about it. During my first breakup I remained silent and swallowed the hurt and never told anyone.

Most women are told to take the higher road and move on in grace. 

If a woman whines about her struggles and takes out her anger then she will be called a "Big Bitch". 

Women are not easily allowed to express anger and outrage. 

But it doesn't mean that there are no hurt women. There are many. 

 

Moral of the story is. 

Men get hurt. Women are hurt too 

 

Both are two sides of the same coin. 

Women also see men's struggles but they can't do anything about it just like men can't do anything about a woman's struggles. 

 

(men are hurt. Hurt by women. Women are hurt. Hurt by men. Men are not angels or saints. Women are not angels or saints either. Simple. End story is both are hurt, there is no privilege  here) 

 

 

 

Let's keep it fair. 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Preety_India

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

 

@SamC

The simple answer is - both struggle. 

The only difference is men's struggles are very visible because they are allowed to whine about it 

 

Whereas women tend to be silent about it. During my first breakup I remained silent and swallowed the hurt and never told anyone.

Most women are told to take the higher road and move on in grace. 

If a woman whines about her struggles and takes out her anger then she will be called a "Big Bitch". 

Women are not easily allowed to express anger and outrage. 

But it doesn't mean that there are no hurt women. There are many. 

 

Moral of the story is. 

Men get hurt. Women are hurt too 

 

Both are two sides of the same coin. 

Women also see men's struggles but they can't do anything about it just like men can't do anything about a woman's struggles. 

 

Let's keep it fair. 

 

 

The only difference is that men can whine about it? common, that´s not to put it in a higher perspective. That´s downplaying the struggle that guys face. I can tell that you still think it´s impossible that a guy can have it harder or even as hard as a woman and I get it, its fine. That´s why we need more empathy in the world, for everyone - cause everyone struggles and feels like victims sometimes. We all feel hurt, and I understand your pain regarding this issue - that you´re angry and that feel like you're a victim of men´s selfish and unconscious behavior.

I encourage you to do the same if you haven´t already and try to deepen your understanding for the guys that struggle with stuff on the other side of the coin as well - cause a lot of guys to feel deeply misunderstood regarding the problems that they face, just like you.

It´s not your responsibility, Men are not victims of this at all, but I think that love and empathy towards men´s struggles in this case ( and of course in woman's case as well) won´t be bad for anyone.

Deeper understanding and higher picture thinking is the foundation for a solution, for all the problems we face in society, including this one.

So now as an exercise , vizualise about being a low value guy yourself, put yourself in the shoes of a shy, insecerue INCEL who never have had sex in his entire life. Think of yourself being rejected by a girl because youré not confident enough. Can you do it? Can you see it? have you done it? GOOD.

THIS is the reality for a lot, and I mean a lot of guys. The only question is, can girls see it? IDK, I'm still researching it, lmao.

p.s  Íts not  a competition about who has got it worse, we all suffer from our own " biggest problems". What we all should strive to, is to be able to take on more perspectives, to understand all struggles better, (:

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by SamC

[Preety_India]

@SamC  I see it and I feel bad for them 

I'm empathize with them 

 

I understand men's struggles. Dating is an unfair biological game that is rigged against women and incel men. 

Women get knocked up by men and then abandoned. So many abandoned pregnant women 

It's rigged against incel type men because they struggle to attract women they want. 

Both are left alone in the end. 

Nobody truly benefits in dating. 

The blame is not as much on a woman or a man but more on nature. 

I have learned some important lessons from Leo on dating game that I'll share in the "pickup unconscious" thread 

Maybe it will shed some light on the matter and help to accept certain things 

I do deeply empathize with you if you are currently struggling in finding a wonderful partner. 

I struggle myself as well in finding a loyal man. An emotionally invested conscious man. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Preety_India

[Applegarden]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Sorry apple, you didn't say it. 

Well i don't think i needed to say what you qouted, you could just respond.

Anyway, what i meant is that the bar in society is set where people worry about their agenda and the agenda of their friends and family (blue, green) so it takes some self reflection to start understanding other people's point of view and their agenda, and of course such people are a minority and feel displaced. Otherwise why do women spend so much time on beauty and significantly more on diet/fitness? Because their intetest is to apper as attractive as possible, so she can choose, isn't it so? I feel like this is evolutionary biology 101. Of course and the more life-experience and self reflection, the different the criteria for a mate.

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

 Ever wonder why women prefer to hangout with their girlfriends rather than their boyfriends and husband?  It is because most women do not like men.

It is culturally influenced, because naturally women spend more time with women and men spend time with men in a lifetime. Of course with exceptions and possibility of change for individuals.

1 hour ago, SamC said:

well, its not mainly that. girls like confident guys and its fine. it´s not the societys fault.

It is MAINLY influenced by culture, if the culture is with alot of blindspots and very materualistic, the individuals will be very survival, biology motivated, if its conscious and spiritual society (unfortunately we haven't seen that) those values will be far from lust and fear - which is what drives our survival instincts. Please don't underesrimate working on emotional intelligence in mass. Person who underestands his emotions is a different human being altogether. If we had a million echart tolles in one place, how would it be governed? How will that society function. What attractive values would be in terms of dating? Very very different.