Being Blunt or "Mean" Can Still be a Selfless Behavior

[Adam M]

I wanted to point out how many people criticize Leo (and many other spiritual teachers) whenever they say anything that comes off as arrogant, mean, or challenging.

It's important to understand that in Vajrayana Buddhism, many of the enlightened deities are portrayed as being wrathful deities. They are depicted as being literally ablaze with the wisdom power to forcefully break up delusional views.

Most people see a spiritual teacher being blunt or rude as a sign of their lack of awakening. But, in truth, the ability to skillfully use "wrathfulness" as a tool for awakening others is a compassionate quality.

Uninformed egos (especially stage Green) get the false idea that a spiritual master has to be kind, warm, and peaceful at all times.

I see many egos projecting this wrong view onto Leo. Saying that just because he's cocky sometimes, then that's proof of his lack of awakening.

Ironically, these comments always come from emotionally triggered egos who are unconsciously projecting their lack of robust understanding of enlightened behavior. And their inability to discern when cockiness is used as a tool to gratify the ego, and when it is used for compassion (awakening beings).

In hindsight, maybe Leo shouldn't have started the video with such bold claims. 

Then again, it's a good way to quickly identify who wants to actually understand reality and who wants to defend their flimsy worldviews.

 

Summary: Sometimes spiritual teachers are mean. Get used to it. If it comes off as egoic, it is likely your ego projecting. That is not to say that spiritual teachers are immune to delusive ego trips.

[Vittorio]

It depends from which standpoint you're looking at this.

From the Master standpoint: he is having a no bullshit attitude and go then straight to the thing

From the disciple/normal person standpoint: that guy is blunt, he doesn't explain well, he is not empathetic, he is outright insulting me etc.

So the line between rudeness and being direct is not always clear as it seems.

But don't confuse being rude, impolite and insulting with being direct.

These are two VERY different things.

This is especially true among people who justify their "direct" manners by saying they're just being direct.

No, you're actually being an asshole.

[Origins]

It's just an evolutionary emotional-psychological algorithm playing out, very robotic. People relate to Leo like he's a person still rather than a being like everything else on this planet that's on a continuous developmental trajectory, for better or for worse. For "Leo", this name he's been granted in his life that he can change to whatever he wants, legally speaking, or without the legal paper work just in people speak, ideally for the better.

This isn't going to stop. 

People simply aren't self aware enough to even contemplate being aware enough of the algorithm to influence their interactions in a positive way. 

I'm sure Leo already knows that, he's a smart dude. 

People have to seriously come to terms with the fact that there's a yin/yang to this life, there's the computer game deterministic aspect that you can choose to master to the best of your ability but that no matter what you do people are always going to have their involuntary responses relative to their capabilities, and then there's the quantum or even just unknowable realm that we're still working out and may never completely work out that may not be deterministic at all. It's not black and white.

People are continuously going to go over and over and over in their minds and in their little groups and with their literal and figural megaphones about what is rude, not rude, etc, etc because collectively we're always unconsciously evolving that math based on bodily impressions ("I feel offended therefore I must [do this]...", "I feel empathy for x therefore I must [be right]..."). It evolves via projection in the mainstream not via cognition or some higher level of awareness.

This is what creates social norms overtime.

It's like a snake, you slap the snake its going to snap at you as that's what its programmed to do, it can't contemplate its moves and neither can most of these people. Maybe the slap was a good idea, but the snake isn't going to know that so its a bad idea, which is why I'm against parents spanking children as a side note.

Most of them are all just playing out scripts in a film as bad actors, until they start being a director, looking at the script and wondering how it can be improved it's going no where, and in reality, it's going no where. The vast sum of people on the planet that can do this versus can't is totally disproportionate.

On the subject of leadership though, for any leader on anything, good ones generally assign themselves as the ones responsible for surveying the environment as best as they can and adapting overtime relative to what they perceive as the best response. Leo's not perfect, none of us are but the more aware he is of the narratives playing out with peoples criticisms the more he'll be able to avoid being psychologically conditioned by them, because that's what they're trying to do on a subconscious level, while at the same time integrating enough useful voices to arrive at the line of best fit for his goals in the context of his leadership.

Otherwise, Fred, yeah I can see Leo as a Fred if he ever thought about changing his name. Haha 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Origins

[Origins]

These kinds of people as well, their lack of awareness manifests in creepy ways. 

And what makes it even more creepy is they're totally unaware of it.

[Nahm]

@Adam M

You are stupid and not as woke as me. 

[BlackMaze]

[Nahm]

@Adam M

(I’m assuming we’re both laughing.)

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Adam M said:

Most people see a spiritual teacher being blunt or rude as a sign of their lack of awakening. But, in truth, the ability to skillfully use "wrathfulness" as a tool for awakening others is a compassionate quality.

I'll lay out the counter argument, which is that those people can also be right. You could easily rationalize having a closed off heart as "oh well I'm just one of those 'wrathful' teachers, that's my style". Discernment is necessary.

[electroBeam]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Adam M

(I’m assuming we’re both laughing.)

Actually what's going on is Adam M just developed an emotionally triggered ego who is unconsciously projecting his lack of robust understanding of enlightened behavior. And his inability to discern when cockiness is used as a tool to gratify the ego, and when it is used for compassion (awakening beings).

In hindsight, maybe Nahm shouldn't have started the comment with such bold claims.

Then again, it's a good way to quickly identify who wants to actually understand reality and who wants to defend their flimsy worldviews.

[tuckerwphotography]

To play devil's advocate, if Leo's hypothetical goal is to help as many stage Green people make the leap into Yellow, then turning them off in the first 10 seconds is probably a bad strategy, as Greens will click away without ever getting to the content. But if this isn't his goal, and he instead just wants to speak from his heart and hope that whoever is meant to hear it hears it, then it doesn't matter if he's an asshole (or a perceived asshole) or not. 

My point is that without knowing Leo's goals it's hard to determine whether his "blunt" language is an effective strategy or not.

[Persipnei]

I was one of the monkeys who posted negatively under the YT vid. It was the reason I posted on this forum for the first time (after being a member for more than a year). I came in here angry, read the perfect things I needed to let go and I was able to just close of the whole society-is-going-down-the-drain-feeling that had ruled my emotions for years in hours. Off  course this is not just because of the vid. I evolved during the last years, but was not able to let go by myself. Leo has scared away lots of people with the stern beginning, I am sure of that, but it was exactly what I needed.

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

Was not meant as a ‘bold claim’ lol. Simply humor related to the nature of the thread. Admittedly, I often forget people are serious about their egos & views etc. Did not mean any offense or ‘boldness’.  

[Consept]

As the cliche goes when the student is ready the master will appear, for now those disregarding Leo are not ready for the teachings, they are holding onto beliefs. Theres no spiritual teacher i can think of that is not in some way blunt, the point of a teacher is to strip away belief, if a belief is questioned the ego is likely to attack, theres no way around this. What i realised personally is that if a spiritual teacher triggers or scares me i should listen to him more because that is the feeling of ego and long held beliefs being stripped away 

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@electroBeam

Was not meant as a ‘bold claim’ lol. Simply humor related to the nature of the thread. Admittedly, I often forget people are serious about their egos & views etc. Did not mean any offense or ‘boldness’.  

Totally get you. Read my reply again then read the 2nd half of Adam M's OP. Sounds like I often forget people are serious on here too.

[SoonHei]

21 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Adam M

You are stupid and not as woke as me. 

I can destory Nahm's whole career with this little post here, screenshotted and posted without the context

MUHUHUHUHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA

[zeroISinfinity]

32 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

I can destory Nahm's whole career with this little post here, screenshotted and posted without the context

MUHUHUHUHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA

Sarcasm? 

I don't really beleive @Nahmsaid it even in this way?

He can be agressive but this is just a joke.

[SoonHei]

4 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Sarcasm? 

yes my dear

 

it's nahm! how can one possibly destory nahm!

nahm is another name for love and love is indestructible <3

[Nahm]

55 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

I can destory Nahm's whole career with this little post here, screenshotted and posted without the context

MUHUHUHUHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA

Devil.

 

@electroBeam

Lol! I see it now. Nice.

[zeroISinfinity]

13 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

yes my dear

 

it's nahm! how can one possibly destory nahm!

nahm is another name for love and love is indestructible <3

Oh give me a break, matt kahning a lot lately?We will see is it indestructible. Well it is. 

[mandyjw]

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Devil.

That's what happens when you go too far with your personal devilopment.