Is having kids generally helpful or detrimental to self-actualization?

[Denis_]

I couldn't find an answer on the forum regarding having kids.
I remember Leo mentioned awhile back that he was a bit unsure about this but ultimately decided against it. What do you guys think?
I'm at the point where I'm financially independent and have a life purpose as well (I'm 36yo). Just not sure if I should add a family and kids to my life.
I sometimes think of having a family as one of the creature comforts that helps us be in good balance with ourselves. Kind of like taking showers... You don't have to do it, but you would feel more at peace and balanced if you do...
Thoughts?

[Thestarguitarist14]

You have to be okay with the fact that your family will take up most of your time.  The mistake that people make is putting their family first.  At the end of the day, you come first.

 

The key is that anything you do had to benefit your family in some way.  Meaning you need to bring your family into consideration with what actions you decide to take.  
 

A self actualized person makes a good partner and parent.  That is for sure.

[Origins]

Everything is for self actualisation (SA), so much nonsense around the concept people don't even really understand the term. We are stupid about a lot of things including children, we have to get smarter. If someone is low on the path they shouldn't have kids full stop though as its bad for the kids and bad to be using kids as an anchor for SA. So kids are just a branch of SA.

[Denis_]

I agree, seems like a lot of people are using family as their Life Purpose (probably because it's easier to start a family than to develop a truly fulfilling purpose in life).. This does not feel right at all. With this approach we would be no different than rabbits.
The Question is - after you realize that YOU and your Life Purpose should always come first, is it worth adding a family to the mix? Is the sacrifice of your time worth comfort and biological instinct satisfaction that having a family provides?

I understand that different people have different luck with their family experience, I'm just trying so gauge what are the odds of not regretting it.. So far seems like in the US the chances of having a good experience are rather slim..

@Leo Gura, what's your take?

Edited October 5, 2020 by Denis_

[Roy]

Just now, Denis_ said:

Is the sacrifice of your time worth comfort and biological instinct satisfaction that having a family provides?

That depends on you.

I'd say it's detrimental because it's a massive commitment of time, energy, and resources going towards something that is NOT your life purpose. But there is enough time in life for both after all, most people seem to be pulling it off.

You also have to consider do you really need 100% of your time and resources going towards your life purpose? Do you have crazy aspirations and a desire to build an empire of some kind?

Kids and family will definitely slow you down from that, but there are awesome benefits too.

[Denis_]

Jordan Peterson's biggest argument for having kids is "you'll get bored to death later in your life if you don't have a family"..
This doesn't ring true for some reason.. Is there some merit here?

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Denis_ said:

I couldn't find an answer on the forum regarding having kids.
I remember Leo mentioned awhile back that he was a bit unsure about this but ultimately decided against it. What do you guys think?
I'm at the point where I'm financially independent and have a life purpose as well (I'm 36yo). Just not sure if I should add a family and kids to my life.
I sometimes think of having a family as one of the creature comforts that helps us be in good balance with ourselves. Kind of like taking showers... You don't have to do it, but you would feel more at peace and balanced if you do...
Thoughts?

I definitely don't think there's any hard rules here. I know very self-actualized people with and without kids. So I'd just turn inward and see if it's right for you.

P.S the fact that you made this question at all might be a clue which way you're leaning

[Thewritersunion]

The storms and seas still have energy to defeat you. Defend it and wait till they calm. Only after that, you can birth new consciousness if you have the desire for more thunder.

[Denis_]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

I definitely don't think there's any hard rules here. I know very self-actualized people with and without kids. So I'd just turn inward and see if it's right for you.

P.S the fact that you made this question at all might be a clue which way you're leaning

Now I'm really curious. Which way do you think someone is leaning if they pose this question??

[Denis_]

1 hour ago, Thewritersunion said:

The storms and seas still have energy to defeat you. Defend it and wait till they calm. Only after that, you can birth new consciousness if you have the desire for more thunder.

Very poetic, thanks. So, basically it means that we should sort ALL of your stuff out before even thinking about kids.. Sounds reasonable.
Although my parents had me and my brother pretty early, when their life was super tough and uncertain, and having kids turned out to be a fantastic thing for them... go figure

[SgtPepper]

Yes, it is helpful.

Having children will challenge and help grow your ability to love. So will having a marriage. 

[RichnNL]

I am a new father and firstly you have to appreciate that we now live in a time when you have the choice to have kids in that you are not socially held back by not having kids. Since you are 36 its kind of time to draw that line in the sand. I personally wouldn't want to be a really old father and there are risks as you get older (not in anyway comparable to a woman at 36). Consider that it could also take quite some time to conceive. 

Firstly get out of your head actualization or kids. Kids take up a lot of your time you know this, most of what people say about kids is bullshit, also most of the stereotypes. 

I don't agree with Jordan Peterson here. It all depends kids will not grow everyone in fact they will hold you back a lot because you and your spouse can get thrown back into a sense of survival mode. 

I also come from two parents who really should never of have kids and just focused on themselves. 

Ok all that negative stuff aside I am happy I have a kid, I really like kids in general and for me it is part of my mission to help the next generation mature in their own unique way kind of like being a mentor to the next generation. 

I wouldn't say you even have to have all your things sorted out or everything perfectly aligned, I have a newborn and I've had to cut out other things like watching tv but I am still able to workout, spend time with him, work, also do courses to advance my career etc. Having the right partner is super important! And you also don't want to live in regret so there are a lot of things you can only do as a single guy or a free guy with little responsibilities but I am guessing you have already done those things.

So in short if its not a part of your life purpose then don't do it!

Cheers 

[LfcCharlie4]

I agree with @aurum (shock) in terms of it can help or hinder depending on the person and the motivation for it. 

Essentially, do whatever YOU want to do. After all, it's your life and we're lucky not to live in a hardcore Blue country that basically forces reproduction on you.

I would say, firstly, you need to find the right partner, I'm 20, and I literally see people who were careless and had kids at like 16-19, split with their partners and I just feel so so sorry for the Child being brought up in a broken home by people who are literally kids themselves. 

But, you're 36, have your life pretty sorted out it sounds like, so, you certainly sound more ready than like 90% of people. 

What is your heart telling you? 

Personally, I know I'll want a family within the next 2 decades, but not in less than 1 decade!  

[allislove]

@Denis_

Any experience is here to help you to realize who you are. 
Children/Marriage is an amazing experience and easily can lead to self-realization. 
Listen to your heart.

[No Self]

13 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

A self actualized person makes a good partner and parent.  That is for sure.

Potentially. But I can't comment on this one. The Lord Buddha and Papaji were among those who ran off and never wanted to come back. Jesus and Ramana never even considered having kids.

12 hours ago, Denis_ said:

Jordan Peterson's biggest argument for having kids is "you'll get bored to death later in your life if you don't have a family"..
This doesn't ring true for some reason.. Is there some merit here?

I remember him sharing research proving that people without kids are happier, but then arguing that everyone should have kids anyway just because it is 'noble'. I thought, "What?" Honestly, this is what happens when an intelligent person is straining to try and justify conservative BS.

11 hours ago, aurum said:

P.S the fact that you made this question at all might be a clue which way you're leaning

On the contrary. The extent of the commitment of parenting is utterly indescribable. If there is any question, the answer should always be no.

3 hours ago, RichnNL said:

So in short if its not a part of your life purpose then don't do it!

Spot on, it is sad to watch the world become more overcrowded, people become lonelier and the animal kingdom under siege just because people feel that they 'have to' have children because society says so.

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

I just feel so so sorry for the Child being brought up in a broken home by people who are literally kids themselves.

Unfortunately that does happen, but keep in mind that in an enlightened society, entire communities raise children. This spares the children from inheriting neurotic behaviours from the parents, allows the parents to have some sort of a life balance, spares the elders from becoming 'useless', spreads the workload and ensures a sense of community.

Keep in mind there are other potential options: there are children in need of loving homes out there. Or alternatively, being an involved uncle/aunt/community member is a good middle ground that enables time around children without being completely depleted of energy.

[aurum]

On 10/5/2020 at 9:55 PM, Denis_ said:

Now I'm really curious. Which way do you think someone is leaning if they pose this question??

My assumption is you're leaning towards. People don't usually ask these kind of questions unless they're seriously considering it.

[Persipnei]

Before my son was born I had never loved unconditionally. It was because of him I recognized that kind of love. It was because of his mirroring I started realizing who I am. Without my son, I'd still be a junkie. Can't speak for everyone, but my kid saved my life and probably my spirit.

That said: 99,99% of all the shit I got over me in the last 9 years, was also because if him, so it's not all cookies and sunshine... But I guess that life. Everything that brings you something positive also shits all over you :-)

[LfcCharlie4]

@No Self You have definitely raised some great points, I especially like the part about the communities, I feel a modern society alternative would be having the whole family involved, instead of living 100s of miles from your parents and immediate family. 

Im not planning on having children for probs a decade or two, nearer the two I imagine, but I do look forward to having a family, it’s always something I’ve wanted. 
 

Also, to play devils advocate to your point about sages- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Sadhguru & my own teacher Ananda Devi all have children. 
 

I envisage as more awakened couples emerge & more awakened females, that “gurus” will start more families overall, just a prediction though! 

[mandyjw]

In my experience kids are detrimental to "self" anything, but since enlightenment is both Self realization and the realization of no self, it seems they have no effect whatsoever. 

[mandyjw]

On 10/5/2020 at 4:13 PM, Denis_ said:

I sometimes think of having a family as one of the creature comforts that helps us be in good balance with ourselves. Kind of like taking showers... 

You can have time to take showers or have kids. Pick one. I'm just kidding. A little bit. Sort of.