Isn't Pickup Unconscious?

[Gesundheit]

@Etherial Cat I don't think you're answering the addressed question. The question is not about the kind of guy that you would like to spend your time with. It's about the kind of guy that you'd masturbate to. I'm pretty sure nobody masturbates to Eckhart Tolle or Sadhguru. The fantasy guy is the target of this inquiry, not the realistic relationship guy.

Sorry for being vulgar ? but that's what I'm asking, I'm not sure about @tsuki though 

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura Relationships dont have to be survival oriented. I'm not sure why you insist of labelling entire activities with a general brush as survival vs not survival.

Like celibacy can also be heavily survival: doing celibacy to uphold your survival agenda of Buddhism and your religion. Lets face it, thats a big reason why monks are celibate. To maintain their religion and rules and ways of doing things.

And relationships can be done in a completely detached way, to the point where you dont even care about the outcome... sure you may grieve or mourn at breaking up, but you can do that in a detached way just like how enlightened people will mourn of a loved one dying in a detached way. I dont see whats so survivalish about that. Why not do pickup with the mindset of exploring new phenomena of reality, feeling more of how the world works, and having sex with the intention of getting to understand and deeply feel how the chakra and sexual system works. Focus relationships on exploring the universe instead of dysfunctionally focusing it on the physical avatar of you or a woman specifically. Like thats not survival at all, and its definitely feasible for men to do this, i know several. 

And the toxic/cruel elements you highlight, aint like that everywhere. Hippy circles still want value of course, and relationships are still conditional, but it aint as cut throat as what you're making out. As long as you focus on understanding the body and feeling, and how different energetic centres work, lots of high value girls are open to that... and that's not even beginning pickup work. 

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Confidence is definitely what I'd put in the category of "Godlike" features.

I like to use this "Godlike" image as of what would describe a human able to tap into its whole potential, as if now God itself would be fully inhabiting that person.  I'm definitely fond of confidence in a man. Our true nature behind the conditioning is confident. Lack of confidence is ego, I guess.

But i don't need it to come with devilry in order to be attractive. So that's why I have been insisting on the definition of what is an "edgy" guy. I am really not into any kind of abuse. 

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

When you master something, you do it almost mindlessly, no need to think, it just happens. So true mastery mimics that state of no mind which is naturally, prime territory for attraction.

@Etherial Cat @mandyjw I think that the confusion that we're having arises from something akin to pre/post fallacy that happens during development. It is the distinction that @Etherial Cat insists on making, between being "Godlike" and "edgy", which corresponds to "actual" masculine and "pretended" masculine. The pretended masculine ends up abusive because it is a facade that covers up incompetence. It is what @Etherial Cat calls confidence vs ego, or what I would rather call insecurity that comes from protecting one's childish fantasy. 

But that discussion is off-topic with respect to what I was asking, like @Gesundheit noticed. I want to understand the unconscious sexual drive which may, or may not be what @mandyjw asserts here:

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

All sexuality is just a murky reflection of desire for God.

If that were really the case, then sexual drive would drop off when maturity increases. That, however is not the case because as consciousness increases, more and more aspects of oneself are integrated. In fact, psychological maturity as described by Jung comes from synthesis of the unconscious and the conscious that give rise to the Self. What @Etherial Cat calls "Godhood" of a man may very well be the projection of her Animus that can be owned and experienced consciously as the experience of God. I remember vividly that when I fell in love with my wife, it felt like a genuine awakening.

The interesting part though is whether this unconscious sexual drive can actually be understood correctly and used as guidance in genuine growth. Most accusations towards PUA are that it is fake, which many not necessarily be the case if done correctly. These accusations reek of jealousy and general dismissal of something that does not fit into the accuser's worldview.

Edited November 13, 2020 by tsuki

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

 

Historically and evolution wise, women have been primed to think that confidence means success. Any guy who is confident is considered to be a source of comfort, protection, survival, good boyfriend vibes, good husband vibes and good daddy vibes. This has been entrenched in a woman's psyche since centuries. Because in ancient times during war, confident men seized opportunities for better survival, defeated opponents, rescued women in distress and provided comfort, restored law and order and brought resources from far lands and built communities. To a woman this is a sign of success. A man who has such supreme confidence in his abilities is a great sign of safety, security and progress. That's why women feel free while interacting with generous, affectionate, kind, big hearted guys because it gives out the vibe "hey woman I'm here for you", the confidence in a man is very reassuring to the fragile chaotic gentle nature of a woman. Over time this trait got registered as an attractive trait in women's psyche. Whenever women saw a bold confident man, there was an instant chemical attraction fueled by evolutionary influences. 

That's how confidence came to regarded as sexy because to a woman its a good news, a great potential mate 

Now the brain is primed to respond to impulses without much conscious thinking. So it's hard to convince a brain to dissect someone's confidence level. 

Some guys are confident but it's fake. It's a show. It does not mean they are going to be good providers or lovers. This can be a false sign. It's a mimicry. 

But whatever is happening unconsciously cannot be prevented. Eventually the woman realizes that his confidence is false and that diffuses the attraction she had for him. Nevertheless she is always going to be inevitably attracted to a confident man. Now whether he is truly confident or if it's just a farce is up to her to test. 

This sounds nice on paper but women also used to be sex slaves and not long ago harems, which I don't think is what any woman wants in our modern society.

I personally don't buy this evolution theory you suggested. I think evolution has very little role compared to upbringing and media brainwashing.

[Gesundheit]

@tsuki For me as a man, I have contemplated my sexuality a lot and have had some insights. I don't think it's very different the way attraction works for women. We were all kids after all.

Basically, sexual desire is energy that arises in the second chakra. The rest is simply classical Pavlovian conditioning, i.e. the thoughts and fantasies and all that. We were conditioned from an early age to desire certain things.

Here's how it works: First thing is we learn to desire women. Second is we learn to desire the most beautiful ones. Third is learning to distinguish beautiful from ugly based on past experiences, conditioning, and indoctrination. Fourth is letting all that sink in to the subconscious mind and then take the time and space to develop on its own within the initial boundaries that were made, such as: "it's okay to desire beautiful women unless they are siblings".

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

@Etherial Cat

So you're saying that for attraction to occur to you, the man has to go through the conscious filters of your awareness? He has to pass certain conscious standards you have in order to attract you?

I'm not sure that's how it works though. At least I'm sure that's not how it works for me. If I have such levels of awareness I won't be able to perform or even be attracted at all. For me, awareness is antagonistic to attraction. Attraction happens exclusively on a subconscious level, just like fear, the moment you look at it, it disappears.

Consider sex, what turns me on as a man is the woman's physical beauty. I don't think about it consciously like: "oh, her eyes are blue, and that color reminds me of the blue sky, therefore I am cumming" lol. It just happens in the blink of an eye. All of it, the seeing, the thoughts, the feelings, and the cumming ??

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

 

If that were really the case, then sexual drive would drop off when maturity increases. That, however is not the case because as consciousness increases, more and more aspects of oneself are integrated.

You become passionately dispassionate. It doesn't matter what's happening. That can look like celibacy or it can look like sex. Celibate person might be in the throws of ecstasy, person having sex might be miserable. Who knows, who cares? 

You want someone beautiful and amazing to fuck you, because then you can accept yourself as beautiful and amazing. Then you stop thinking that you're beautiful and amazing and your partner stops being beautiful and amazing, and you think the change happened in them and not you. So you look for someone else who can make you feel that way. You already are that. Fuck beautiful amazing people, fuck ugly people and enjoy the liberation of not having to be beautiful and amazing anymore, fuck no one. Nothing changes. You're the ecstasy. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by mandyjw

[tsuki]

@mandyjw God, your sex life has to be boring given your elaborate explanations. Can't you speak like a normal person about normal stuff? All I hear is: I don't need sex. Well, that's fine if it's true but it's besides the point.

[Shin]

Amazing how both men and women just want everything without giving anything  

If only it was that easy, there wouldn't be threads like that

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Honestly, it's really much like giving everyone an energy sniff with an open-mind and looking for compatibility. Just like I can recognize that Donald Trump ain't good for America, I can recognize who is good for my life. You can replace "awareness" by common sense in your reply above, if it pleases you.

But what you call common sense is not so common because most women are attracted to certain traits that you don't seem to be attracted to. 

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Again, at this point in my life, I really value intimacy, smoothness and relationship quality.

And that's the problem, because everyone, men and women, value these things. I can't think of anyone that likes a boring, low quality, and detached relationship. These things are prerequisites and granted. But the way how each one of us gets to fulfill them differ enormously. For you, a high quality relationship is based on truth as a core value. Some other person may have money, or humor, or muscles, or curves, or whatever as their core value. The question is why do we differ? Why do we all go about fulfilling the same goals by going in completely different ways? Since we all ultimately value the same things, why are we different?

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Gesundheit]

@Etherial Cat

First of all, I just looked up the word "gigastacy" and found some cool pics, so thank you for that ??

Second, you're talking about loving the beingness of the person? But everyone else is also a person that exists, so why should I love someone and favor them sexually while everyone is the same in essence? We all share the same essence and any discrimination would be lack of love or let's just say bias.

I believe what you're saying is that the personality is much more important than the material aspects of the person. That's a very popular preference amongst women. I know I am being pedantic but what you're saying is still besides the question. The question is why does this preference exist in the first place? Why are certain people attracted to certain traits while others are turned off by them?

[Arcangelo]

''Isn't Pickup Unconscious?''

No, it is not.

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Energetic signature, conditioning, ego-development and awareness level.

This must be the weirdest sexual perverse I've ever encountered lol

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

This must be the weirdest sexual perverse I've ever encountered lol

That's because she is not talking about sex.

Just stop thinking about sex for 5 seconds ???

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Shin said:

That's because she is not talking about sex.

Just stop thinking about sex for 5 seconds ???

Exactly. I keep emphasizing that I'm asking about sex, but I only get answers about maintained relationships. It's clear to you what I'm saying so I'm not being unclear. I don't know why I get unrelated answers from @Etherial Cat

[Gesundheit]

@Etherial Cat yeah whatever.

[Arcangelo]

On 11/13/2020 at 0:15 PM, Arcangelo said:

''Isn't Pickup Unconscious?''

No, it is not.

But I say it because I am a man.

If I was a woman I will be singing a very different tune.

I'll be like: -''OMG! Those PUAs are pigs. How can they dare to sexually harass women on the street? They should all be locked up.''

Edited November 15, 2020 by Arcangelo
it

[Arcangelo]

PUAs are predators and women are prey. That's from the point of view of a woman.

PUAs are just guys that want to have sex and if things go well an intimate relationship. That's from the point of view of a man.

And then you have the beta simps. I am not gonna discuss their point of view because is just way too alien for me.

[Preety_India]

@Arcangelo  a lot of puas don't do conscious pickup. 

Having an intimate relationship is no problem. 

But some puas do actually encourage predatory behaviors including rape. 

Don't believe me? Then go look yourself. 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

I wouldn't say all of pickup is unconscious. But some of it is. beware of the unconsciousness in the pickup culture, it's not to be dismissed or taken lightly.