Isn't Pickup Unconscious?

[vizual]

@Preety_India  Yes and I don't  want to judge them for it as I had a similar view of dating before I experienced a higher form of romantic love at the age of 21.

And this love is not cultural as someone else said, I'm a man from the West. I grew up with all this Orange type of dating paradigm.

It wasn't some kind of indoctrination or brainwashing that changed my view of dating. It was a lucky experience completely out of the blue. 

[Javfly33]

24 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

It's not just all about attraction as it is made to appear. 

Its also about values 

The love can last even if the attraction is faded. 

Love is a virtue independent of attraction. 

Of course much of dating is meant for best case survival but not everyone cares about survival all the time. 

We love someone because we have developed a friendship with them for some time and that connection blossoms into love..

When the human brain produces strong chemicals of bonding with a person, their looks and external factors are thrown out the window and you just want that person and nothing else. It's like soul bonding. 

All of this has nothing to do with dating strategies. 

All those high value creation dating techniques are fine within an Orange stage paradigm 

But at a certain point, you can transcend that for a soulmate. 

Such people can have lifetime relationships and they are more likely to look at pickup as very unconscious because they won't like the survival factor of it. 

It's like being versus shopping 

What I'm talking about is being and loving and asking nothing. Except that you don't want to be hurt. The relationship exists within an ambit of rules to preserve its sanity. 

Whereas all this stage orange dating is nothing but shopping. 

I don't believe in this type of dating. It can be conscious for those who look at it from a survival point.. 

But deep down I don't believe this. I believe it's possible for two people to simply find each other and be together transcending the rules of survival. 

That's true love 

 

I'm going to put effort into conscious dating. Not this type of dating. 

It looks very unconscious to me 

 

 

@Preety_India I do think that that sort of deep connection you are talking about can happen, but I also think that for that to happen, the man and the women must have some survival dating attractive values on them. 

If you are an awkward insecure low confident guy, I find it it hard that a minimum atractive woman will "trascend the rules of survival" for you because you happen to have his particular x tastes or values that she usually would look for for a long-term partner .

In the same way, I find it hard that I will be ever be atracted to a low value girl even if he's into a lot of rare niche things I might be into and has an amazing personality. 

Will I want to be friends with her? Of course, yes.

Will I want her to be my sexual partner or have kids with her? Nope . 

Why for women would be anything different? It's not. We both are interested. 

And also note that you say "the love can last even if the attraction is faded". So you accept that attraction must be there. The attraction is the Pilar of the house. Then you can build that deep connection that you say is "real love". But you can't build "real love" withouth attraction in the first place. Because real love withouth attraction is just friendship. And everyone knows friendship is second order priority versus romantic partner.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Preety_India Can you explain how it works there then what they do if they dont date?

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

@vizual @Preety_India

Yeah, totally.

A couple is made of two consciousness. Those consciousness are able to create a love which match their ego development level. That pretty much sums it up. A Turquoise couple (let's take Eckhart Tolle and Kim Eng) isn't operating through some lame ass stage orange agenda.

I would also add that a healthy relationship requires its fair share of divine feminine energy and that I suspect a lot of men here (including Leo) to struggle with juggling the divine masculine and divine feminine aspect of their consciousness and reality. 

And it is comprehensible because I also have issues juggling those two aspects. But I have more feminine energy than masculine energy and today's society tend to push women to develop their masculine side more than they allow men to develop their and be rewarded for it. So...

This whole divine feminine thing is b.s.  not the balancing masculine and feminine energy, men and women must do that.  But there is no such thing as “divine femininity”.  It is just women trying to balance the scales.

 

Nothing is being balanced.

[vizual]

@Etherial Cat Hahahah. I'm just picturing Eckhart Tolle leaving his wife for a 21 y/o supermodel as she has way more sexual, monetary and social value than his current wife. And Eckhart explaining it as; well that's just the ruthless nature of the dating game, you just need to practice to accept this and not be so lovey dovey.

 

I hope people see how ridiculous this is and that a person of high spiritual development doesn't view "dating" as the people at a lower development. And don't tell me the reason a man like Eckhart is not with a supermodel is because he cannot attract one. Most supermodel women would eat out of his hand if they met.

Edited October 7, 2020 by vizual

[Preety_India]

 

Yes. These people won't get it. They will shoot it down as bs. 

[Preety_India]

Now look.. This dating forum needs to be open minded to all forms of dating and relationship styles. It shouldn't be limited to the type that pua communities always talk about. 

We're in a Paradigm lock here. And a bit of open mindedness on the part of the debaters will help 

 

I and @vizual and @Etherial Cat are able to grasp this paradigm and can see the other paradigm very well. 

I understand that for others it's tough to understand this because they don't look at the world the way we do. 

Nevertheless, try to be open minded to accept how others think. 

Accept all forms of dating styles. Understand that all dating styles don't have the same agenda as you might want to believe. 

We're not to be belittled just because we hold different beliefs about dating. 

Dating beliefs and styles can very widely and they all should be accommodated on this forum. 

I understand that you all debaters think that pickup is conscious. 

But some people don't look at pickup the way you do. This is a paradigm lock. And it's okay. People can have diametrically opposite perspectives. I'm not saying someone is right or wrong. But just have the open mindedness to accept other's views. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

20 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

 

A couple is made of two consciousness. Those consciousness are able to create a love which match their ego development level. That pretty much sums it up. A Turquoise couple (let's take Eckhart Tolle and Kim Eng) isn't operating through some lame ass stage orange agenda.

Eckhart and Kim don't even live in the same house. 

[Thestarguitarist14]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Now look.. This dating forum needs to be open minded to all forms of dating and relationship styles. It shouldn't be limited to the type that pua communities always talk about. 

We're in a Paradigm lock here. And a bit of open mindedness on the part of the debaters will help 

 

I and @vizual and @Etherial Cat are able to grasp this paradigm and can see the other paradigm very well. 

I understand that for others it's tough to understand this because they don't look at the world the way we do. 

Nevertheless, try to be open minded to accept how others think. 

Accept all forms of dating styles. Understand that all dating styles don't have the same agenda as you might want to believe. 

We're not to be belittled just because we hold different beliefs about dating. 

Dating beliefs and styles can very widely and they all should be accommodated on this forum. 

I understand that you all debaters think that pickup is conscious. 

But some people don't look at pickup the way you do. This is a paradigm lock. And it's okay. People can have diametrically opposite perspectives. I'm not saying someone is right or wrong. But just have the open mindedness to accept other's views. 

 

 

I agree with your first statement.  This forum is too directed towards pick up ideology.  And I say that as a former PUA.

 

But what you speak of a fair neverland.  Nobody in the West is going to go for that.  It is a fantasy.  Sounds great.  But it is not real.

[Preety_India]

@Thestarguitarist14  that's okay. 

It is still a perspective nevertheless. 

Some people like to follow it. 

Someone like Eckhart will follow it. 

I don't expect you to understand or follow it. 

Just accept it that's all 

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Thestarguitarist14  that's okay. 

It is still a perspective nevertheless. 

Some people like to follow it. 

Someone like Eckhart will follow it. 

I don't expect you to understand or follow it. 

Just accept it that's all 

 

Here is the thing, no one will accept fantasy.  Especially out in the West.  You have to understand that what your idea of love is does not in fact exist.  It is only a cognitive distortion of your own imagination.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Here is the thing, no one will accept fantasy.  Especially out in the West.  You have to understand that what your idea of love is does not in fact exist.  It is only a cognitive distortion of your own imagination.

Absolutely not. People live like that. Even in the West. It's just that nobody discusses it because your society is too bamboozled with pickup ideology. 

So there's a thick fog that's hard to clear. 

 

There are lots of dating styles. Not everything is based on pickup. 

Pickup is not the Holy grail for dating. 

Don't think of it as fantasy. 

People who are deep into spirituality practice this kind of love. 

Although you don't understand because you're not within them. You are not inside my mind to understand me. So you'll find it difficult to see how it can happen. 

But I don't expect you to conceive my ideas. Just don't persist in resisting so much. 

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Absolutely not. People live like that. Even in the West. It's just that nobody discusses it because your society is too bamboozled with pickup ideology. 

So there's a thick fog that's hard to clear. 

 

There are lots of dating styles. Not everything is based on pickup. 

Pickup is not the Holy grail for dating. 

Don't think of it as fantasy. 

People who are deep into spirituality practice this kind of love. 

Although you don't understand because you're not within them. You are not inside my mind to understand me. So you'll find it difficult to see how it can happen. 

But I don't expect you to conceive my ideas. Just don't persist in resisting so much. 

 

I already agreed with you on the pick up part.

 

But do you believe in Santa Claus?  A lot of children do.  You have not met all the children in the world who believe in Santa Claus.

 

And are you in a deeply loving, committed relationship?

[Preety_India]

 

@Thestarguitarist14  I laid down all of my beliefs. There are others who also agree with me. 

I'm happy I found agreement and they brought out my perspective even more beautifully. 

I don't expect you to bend for me. 

You can live with your perspective but I want room for mine. 

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

@Thestarguitarist14  I laid down all of my beliefs. There are others who also agree with me. 

I'm happy I found agreement and they brought out my perspective even more beautifully. 

I don't expect you to bend for me. 

You can live with your perspective but I want room for mine. 

 

The others that agree with you are living a fantasy as well.

 

But you did not answer my questions.

[Globalcollective]

38 minutes ago, vizual said:

 

And don't tell me the reason a man like Eckhart is not with a supermodel is because he cannot attract one. Most supermodel women would eat out of his hand if they met.

@vizual Why would a supermodel be eating out of Tolle's hand ? Poss if they knew who he was but I doubt it would be that easy for him. 

The anwser here is somewhere in the middle yes there is a way to have higher conscious relationships and they should be pursued but also at the same time we all have natural biological drives that need honouring also and nothing wrong with that if you can balance it in a healthy way. You can't suppress your natural urges or it will come out in nasty ways. 

[vizual]

@Globalcollective  Biological drives/needs have nothing to do with this, I don't think anyone has claimed that in this topic. The claim is that it is possible to have an unconditional type of love with a romantic partner that transcends social status, looks, money, fame, notoriety etc. Basically a love that transcends the material realm of being. 

According to most people here this is a fairy tale and not possible. It's okay if you think that. My experience does not stroke with that belief. 

[Globalcollective]

19 minutes ago, vizual said:

@Globalcollective  Biological drives/needs have nothing to do with this, I don't think anyone has claimed that in this topic. 

I think you will find the great bold one is saying this!  It has a lot to do with this actually, loads of so called enlightened sages slept with hot chicks for fun and its ok if they did. 

21 minutes ago, vizual said:

@Globalcollective Basically a love that transcends the material realm of being. 

Yeah my last relationship I had that. There is no moral high ground, just chill 

[vizual]

@Globalcollective  Yes but you have to open to the possibilities that a lot of biological "needs" can be transcended to a certain degree with higher consciousness, far past what the collective consciousness thinks is possible. For example, Leo himself has said that he has met - or at least read about - spiritual masters that structurally function just fine on a daily small bowl of rice, a couple glasses of water and 3 hours of sleep. Also Zen masters that can have surgical operations on their body without narcotics, without flinching.

Edited October 7, 2020 by vizual

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Now look.. This dating forum needs to be open minded to all forms of dating and relationship styles. It shouldn't be limited to the type that pua communities always talk about. 

We're in a Paradigm lock here. And a bit of open mindedness on the part of the debaters will help 

 

I and @vizual and @Etherial Cat are able to grasp this paradigm and can see the other paradigm very well. 

I understand that for others it's tough to understand this because they don't look at the world the way we do. 

Nevertheless, try to be open minded to accept how others think. 

Accept all forms of dating styles. Understand that all dating styles don't have the same agenda as you might want to believe. 

We're not to be belittled just because we hold different beliefs about dating. 

Dating beliefs and styles can very widely and they all should be accommodated on this forum. 

I understand that you all debaters think that pickup is conscious. 

But some people don't look at pickup the way you do. This is a paradigm lock. And it's okay. People can have diametrically opposite perspectives. I'm not saying someone is right or wrong. But just have the open mindedness to accept other's views. 

 

 

This is exactly what I mean..girls don't understand guys stuggles. If a guy is not valueble, no " true love" can exsist. That's why PAU exists, because guys who is not high value needs to man the fuck up and take responsaibility for their future.

It's not some sort of trancending love why you like a guy, it is because of the feelings a high quality guy gives you.

 You're the one that is in a paradigm lock - attraction creates because of survival aspects, not "true love". That's not a perspective, that is the truth.