Isn't Pickup Unconscious?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I think dealing constantly with such men especially when they are not conscious, it's a heavy burden as well. 

Yes, absolutely. Women carry a different burden. You gotta deal with shitty, abusive men.

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It's difficult for a woman to differentiate between a man who is trained to mimic a high quality man only to manipulate her versus a real or genuine high quality man. 

It's tough for women to keep chaffing these men and wasting their time on such men and missing out on the good wolves. 

How to do that?

Yes, of course it is difficult. Good men are rare just as hot women are rare. Dating is an auction system for reproductive value distribution. If you want a high quality mate, you will have to work on it. It won't come for free. Because high reproductive value is very valuable among humans.

The whole key to getting good results in dating is to raise the value you bring to the negotiating table. The higher the value you bring, the higher the value you'll get. Be ware of trying to steal or leech reproductive value like a parasite by offering little in return.

There will never be an easy solution to this problem because reproduction is a struggle for maximizing value. It was never an activity of unconditional love.

You would not sleep with a homeless person. Why not? Does he not deserve your love?

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want a high quality mate, you will have to work on it. It won't come for free.

You're not understanding the perspective of a high quality woman. A high quality woman also wants a high quality stable man. She doesn't want pua asshole tricking her into a relationship and then pumping and dumping her for another woman because he is a player. She feels used in the end.

The pickup of course teaches men how to get a woman, any woman, low quality, high quality, alll sorts of women. 

But my point that you're missing is that it doesn't teach these men how to be a high quality man to a woman. It only teaches them how to get them. 

So for these men it's good because they can get women through their game. 

But women fall for such men because most men who approach them are such men. 

Now if these men were taught to be a high quality men to women, women would have much happier relationships with these men and no frustration or burden of dealing with men who play them 

I hope you got my point. 

 

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You would not sleep with a homeless person. Why not? Does he not deserve your love?

Of course he can deserve my love 

 

The question is, shouldn't I deserve his love as well? 

What if he done with me and moves on to another woman? 

This is where I have a problem with this whole pickup thing. Women are born to lose in this game. Especially high quality women 

Because high quality women don't want this gaming. 

You talk about hot women. Well a hot woman is not a single entity. There are several beautiful girls. If a man can get one beautiful girl, what stops him from getting another? See? 

But for a woman who doesn't want many men but just one guy, this game will screw her..

Being a high quality woman doesn't guarantee her a high quality man. Because she can still land up with an asshole. 

You must have heard of women dating successful wonderful men who later abused them or were bad to them. 

This game is rigged against women. They will always be played and the men will get a better hand. 

Meanwhile she will be left wanting a man who doesn't want to do this gaming which is almost impossible. Most men want many women. 

 

 

[Eren Eeager]

@Leo Gura Did you break up wuth your girlfriend because you raised your value or because you wanted more free time for work?

[Mada_]

I personally wouldn't pigeonhole "pickup" under the title of "predatory". There's a spectrum of salesmen who are honest and want to give the customer value, and there are salesmen who aren't afraid to rip you off for money. 

Yes some men seem to believe they are somehow entitled to a woman's body, disregarding things such as consent and basic manners. 

But in my experience, I enjoy approaching someone I haven't before, and starting a genuine conversation with them. After the conversation I feel like I have taken control of myself and my emotions, I have overcome my mind that tried desperately to avoid the interaction. The first time I approached someone (outside of a house party/social event), I didn't really have any intent on sleeping with the woman I approached, I just wanted to see if I could push myself out of my comfort zone. 

Also, one of my for practicing cold approaches and attraction, is to have the skills to attract the girl I want to be with. If I meet someone and feel I am compatible with them, I want the skills to be able to get them to be interested in me.  

[NoSelfSelf]

@Preety_India Whats a high quality man and high quality women for you?

[Preety_India]

@NoSelfSelf

(according to me) 

 

A high quality man is someone who is honest, kind, loving, caring, respectful, loyal and has a sense of pride and honor. 

A high quality woman is someone who is beautiful (or even average is okay), kind, loving, caring, loyal, graceful and is not nagging or toxic, educated and well informed and has a sense of dignity and responsibility. 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Preety_India

[NoSelfSelf]

@Preety_India  Is high quality man made or born if hes made how so?

[Proserpina]

"Good men are rare"

A good man can bring out the hotness factor in a woman.  

[Preety_India]

 

@NoSelfSelf  I think they are mostly born. But for a man to become a high quality man he will need the right upbringing 

Other than that a man can learn to develop the following qualities to become a high quality man, (this also applies to women) 

Learning to be authentic

Learning to be disciplined with their words and actions 

No manipulation 

Learning to show kindness and empathy 

Learning to be loyal. Self control and consideration for partner 

Learning to show respect and honor boundaries 

Learning to be less argumentative or judgemental

Learning to show care and support 

Learning to show responsibility and commitment

 

[Hello from Russia]

@Etherial Cat The form won't vanish if you're a conscious woman. It will evolve with her and make her even more beautiful than in her younger ages. All it takes is consciousness wor 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Preety_India  Good points If you want can you make a same list how can women become high quality?

[Proserpina]

10 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I also think so. 

But let's be real, the hotness we are talking about here isn't that one. It's the typical Victoria's secret beauty standards or something close to it. 

lol.

A good man (aka a higher being) can motivate my soul to set up the foundations to become a Victoria's secret model.  

[Loving Radiance]

10 hours ago, Preety_India said:

How to do that? 

Well, maybe test them.

[Preety_India]

 

2 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Preety_India  Good points If you want can you make a same list how can women become high quality?

 

It's the same as the men. 

High quality to me is good virtues. Virtues remain the same in both the gender. 

I don't base high quality on looks or resources. 

For me the character of the man I'm dating is important. 

 

[Preety_India]

 

2 minutes ago, Loving Radiance said:

Well, maybe test them.

Can you tell me a few tests? 

 

[Loving Radiance]

@Preety_India I assumed you do that automatically.

 

Oh well, now I see.

[Preety_India]

@Loving Radiance well that didn't answer my question 

 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Preety_India said:

You're not understanding the perspective of a high quality woman. A high quality woman also wants a high quality stable man. She doesn't want pua asshole tricking her into a relationship and then pumping and dumping her for another woman because he is a player. She feels used in the end.

Of course I understand that.

You are describing the female sexual agenda. I totally get it.

But men are under no obligation to cater to your agenda.

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But my point that you're missing is that it doesn't teach these men how to be a high quality man to a woman. It only teaches them how to get them. 

Well, that's beyond the scope of what most men are interested in learning. Most men want to buy advice for how to get more sex, not how to be nice to their girlfriend.

Again, you are expecting men to want to suit your female sexual agenda. But of course men have their own agenda. Why should men work towards your agenda when you don't care about fulfilling their agenda?

Men are merely doing to you what you are doing to them.

Notice your self-bias here.

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Now if these men were taught to be a high quality men to women, women would have much happier relationships with these men and no frustration or burden of dealing with men who play them

Haha! And if women would freely open their legs for men when the man wanted it, then men would be much happier with no frustration or burden.

You are not understanding that women and men have conflicting agendas. You expect the man to align to your agenda while you will not do so for him. So here we are stuck in sex wars.

The nature of sexual relations is adversarial. This needs to be understood.

11 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Of course he can deserve my love

The question is, shouldn't I deserve his love as well? 

Yes, but you will never give your love to a man you don't find attractive.

Neither will a man.

You expect the man to bend over backwards for you. Which is selfish. But when you act selfish, why are you surprised when the man acts selfish too? He's merely mirroring your own selfishness.

Your desire to lock down a high quality man is selfish and that is your agenda. A man is not under any obligation to do that. Maybe he wants that. But maybe he doesn't. And there is noone to say which is right or wrong because this is a purely relative matter.

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What if he done with me and moves on to another woman? 

And what if he wants sex but you don't give it to him?

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This is where I have a problem with this whole pickup thing. Women are born to lose in this game. Especially high quality women 

Because high quality women don't want this gaming. 

High quality women will attract strong men, which is what they want.

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You talk about hot women. Well a hot woman is not a single entity. There are several beautiful girls. If a man can get one beautiful girl, what stops him from getting another? See? 

Where in the universe is it written that a man should have one woman. See? The universe doesn't revolve around your needs.

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But for a woman who doesn't want many men but just one guy, this game will screw her.

Then don't sleep with players. Sleep with some shy nerd who has zero game. There are millions of them around so you will have no problem finding one.

But you see, you don't want to sleep with such a man. You are not attracted to that. You are attracted precisely to strong men who are players who would sleep with lots of women. But you selfishly want to lock him down for yourself exclusively.

So you are creating your own problem.

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Being a high quality woman doesn't guarantee her a high quality man. Because she can still land up with an asshole. 

Likewise for a man. A hot woman can easily be an awful human on the inside. The hottest women tend to be spoiled and emotionally fucked up.

You don't like asshole men, and we men don't like emotional nutcase women. So we're even. Dealing with a crazy emotional woman's drama is no walk in the park.

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You must have heard of women dating successful wonderful men who later abused them or were bad to them. 

Of course. But you must have heard of hot women who were insane spoiled brats.

Let's not pretend that men are the only cheaters in the game. Women cheat too. Women use men too.

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This game is rigged against women. They will always be played and the men will get a better hand. 

No, that's highly relative. Like I said, you are free to date whoever you want. Date a socially clueless and humorless man. Go date an incel. They got zero game. But they also have zero value.

But of course you will never be attracted to an Incel.

You see, you are trying to steal sexual value. What you really want is this: you want a super attractive high value man who will never leverage his value. Well, good luck. The more value a man has, the more he will leverage it. Likewise, the more value a woman has, the more she will leverage it. A hot women will not hesitate to leverage her value to get the best man she can. Don't act like only men do this leveraging. All hot women do it.

If a woman has enough value, she will be able to leverage it to get the man to be loyal to her. But if she has insufficient value, she won't. And this is what really pisses you off. Because you want to be able to lock down a man with higher value than you, and you see how easily that fails. But you still want it because you are greedy. You want value for free. This is otherwise known as stealing value. Your ego-mind wants to steal sexual value. Well, that doesn't work so well. So stop doing it.

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Meanwhile she will be left wanting a man who doesn't want to do this gaming which is almost impossible. Most men want many women.

I know plenty of players and PUAs who ended up settling for one woman. For most guys, pickup is a phase they go through. They sleep around with a handful of girls until they find one and settle down. Few guys want to be hardcore players for life. This is an exception, not the rule. It's also not very sustainable or even desirable. Dating multiple women gets exhausting and time-consuming.

But also, don't pretend like women don't go through a slutty phase. Women sleep around as much if not more than men, but you love to deny it.

7 hours ago, Eren Eeager said:

@Leo Gura Did you break up wuth your girlfriend because you raised your value or because you wanted more free time for work?

No and no.

Sometimes people are just not compatible or properly aligned with each other. In fact this is more often the case than not.

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Then don't sleep with players. Sleep with some shy nerd who have zero game. There is millions of them around so you will have no problem finding one.

Maybe that's what I should do. 

Sleep with an Incel. 

That's the solution.