Isn't Pickup Unconscious?

[Preety_India]

I mean I get it a lot of guys are into this thing called pickup game. 

But this thought was in my mind about how unhealthy or unconscious this has to be. 

Guys view dating as a game. They think of it as a sport. They think of it as hunting, fishing or gaming. I mean these are the labels that can be used to describe this phenomenon. 

Then, the question that arises in my mind is, wouldn't I consider the guy a predator? 

The one who hunts is considered a predator. 

So a pua guy picking up my heart isn't a predator? 

I somehow cannot wrap my mind around this whole pickup game and think it's normal or caring.. It looks super predatory to me. 

Also my heart is always looking for true love. I don't want a gamer. But a true lover..

At a time when I'm trying to raise my spiritual vibration, I should condemn something that I see as low conscious or unhealthy. 

I want people to look for real love and cultivate the path to conscious love and not look at love as a means to an end. 

Love should be about loving someone and not hunting or grifting someone to snatch what you want 

Did that make sense at all or nah? 

 

[nistake]

Pickup can be done consciously and unconsciously, just like with everything else. Granted, most of the time it's done pretty much in an unconscious or even toxic way, but it can be helpful to guys to learn how to start approaching girls and function in the dating world.

Imo, girls shouldn't be worried about this. After all, they're the one who choose who they're going to date with and they see through the inauthenticity pretty soon even if they don't have a knowledge about pickup.

Pickup shouldn't be judged or condemned though. It is just few techniques and tools to get inexperienced guys learn the basics. It mostly depends on the person who practises it. Sometimes they stuck in the pickup game, sometimes they transcend it and learn how to date in an authentic way without the superficial techniques and methods.

Ideally, guys should learn this skill in their teen years by trial and error but unfortunately, lots of guys don't have the opportunity. Lack of friends, social anxiety, lack of proper father figure, you name it.

[Thestarguitarist14]

To be fair, all humans are predators.  We pray on our partners, we pray on our children.  This is something that most people don’t want to admit.

 

Women can be predators too.  They are usually narcissists.

 

The issue with pick up is that it never addresses the root cause.  I get why as most pick up companies can’t just tell men “you don’t love yourself and need to love yourself first, then get the girl!”  It gives you tools to mask your fear of lack.

 

What most people call love is not love it is attachment.

[Preety_India]

@nistake  that's a good perspective but you'd agree that a lot of guys use it in a toxic way and develop toxic ideas about relationships.. That can hurt the opposite gender down the line. 

Won't you agree? 

 

[nistake]

@Preety_India Well, guys can get laid with pickup, but these are just random one night stands. As soon as they think about getting into a serious relationship, pickup's not gonna fly. They'll soon discover that a relationship requires much-much more than a few techniques. That's when authenticity shines.

[aurum]

@Preety_India

You've definitely identified many of the shadows of the PUA community. This is coming from a guy who was pretty deep into that world for a while.

Most guys who get into pickup are not thinking that deeply about it. They just want a girl.

In a more conscious society, PUA would not exist. Not because it's evil but it would be unnecessary.

I believe part of the problem is we don't have proper male initiations anymore. Traditionally, a boy would often have to go through an intense ordeal to then be considered a man. I even read that in one Native American tribe, a young man would be assigned an older woman who would teach him how to make love.

We don't really do these things anymore and I think PUA has found a niche for guys craving that initiation.

Also, consider that the predatory mindset you're talking about isn't really all that different from how operate in the rest of society. We view nature as an object to be exploited called "resources". You don't have people who your business is helping, you have "sales targets".

So really this mindset is just an extension of what the ego does. It rationalizes things as abstract objects so that it can then exploit them without having to feel guilty.

Anyway, it's an excellent nuanced question. Thanks for asking.

[Preety_India]

@aurum  my pleasure. 

 

Thanks for the excellent response. 

[Spiral]

Personally I find people who want to sell me stuff while out and about terribly annoying. I can imagine girls find the whole pickup thing to be something similar.

[Preety_India]

@Spiral yea

[Spiral]

If it’s let’s say a bar or some other social event of sorts and I’d be way more open to meeting new people. After all that partly the reason I am there.

[Globalcollective]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

@Preety_India

You've definitely identified many of the shadows of the PUA community. This is coming from a guy who was pretty deep into that world for a while.

Most guys who get into pickup are not thinking that deeply about it. They just want a girl.

In a more conscious society, PUA would not exist. Not because it's evil but it would be unnecessary.

I believe part of the problem is we don't have proper male initiations anymore. Traditionally, a boy would often have to go through an intense ordeal to then be considered a man. I even read that in one Native American tribe, a young man would be assigned an older woman who would teach him how to make love.

We don't really do these things anymore and I think PUA has found a niche for guys craving that initiation.

Also, consider that the predatory mindset you're talking about isn't really all that different from how operate in the rest of society. We view nature as an object to be exploited called "resources". You don't have people who your business is helping, you have "sales targets".

So really this mindset is just an extension of what the ego does. It rationalizes things as abstract objects so that it can then exploit them without having to feel guilty.

Anyway, it's an excellent nuanced question. Thanks for asking.

This ^ spot on! 

I also was heavily involved with it about five years ago and the main problem with it was it just lacked empathy and awareness towards the female agenda. Also it dose not touch on the higher aspects of dating like say such as love, meaningful connections and how to maintain a healthy relationship. Deep down at the heart of it all PUA's just want love and a lot of them get so lost in chasing sex and validation they loose sight of why they really got into it in the first place. I went through a very strong resentment towards pick up for a few years the more I developed on my spiritual path but I think now it needs to come back but in a more mindful and conscious way as its getting worse for young men with things like red and black pill. Im shocked at how bad it has become. Everything your saying is valid and should be taken into account by any guy who is looking to improve his dating life 

[Preety_India]

@Globalcollective thanks for the thoughtful insight. 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

Whats the alternitive besides pick up?

[LfcCharlie4]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

@Preety_India

You've definitely identified many of the shadows of the PUA community. This is coming from a guy who was pretty deep into that world for a while.

Most guys who get into pickup are not thinking that deeply about it. They just want a girl.

In a more conscious society, PUA would not exist. Not because it's evil but it would be unnecessary.

I believe part of the problem is we don't have proper male initiations anymore. Traditionally, a boy would often have to go through an intense ordeal to then be considered a man. I even read that in one Native American tribe, a young man would be assigned an older woman who would teach him how to make love.

We don't really do these things anymore and I think PUA has found a niche for guys craving that initiation.

Also, consider that the predatory mindset you're talking about isn't really all that different from how operate in the rest of society. We view nature as an object to be exploited called "resources". You don't have people who your business is helping, you have "sales targets".

So really this mindset is just an extension of what the ego does. It rationalizes things as abstract objects so that it can then exploit them without having to feel guilty.

Anyway, it's an excellent nuanced question. Thanks for asking.

Since you’ve been posting again mate, it’s been super high quality stuff ??
 

Id also add boys are never taught how to become a high value man unless you do it yourself, our education system doesn’t teach Nutrition / Exercise, personal finance, anything about relationship & love, anything about dating & finding a partner etc, so the conscious way to do it imo, is use PUA as a platform to become the best man you can be, not using it to manipulate girls into “rotations” and then use what you have learned to develop genuine connections with females, essentially making it a pursuit of personal development, instead of a pursuit for notches on your belt. 
 

That shit gets old real fast anyways, especially the more conscious you are.

[Preety_India]

@LfcCharlie4 so true. 

Absolutely agree with you. Thanks for the excellent response.. 

[Hello from Russia]

I suggest you to look into the woman's version of pickup and watch for similarities

[Javfly33]

There are definitely some PUAs that fall into that category.

I personally don't like or intend to use Pick up as a sort of manipulation. The main reason I want to master pick up is because I basically lack confidence and assertiveness around women, so at least for me, it's not an option to just find love when going out with friends, at work...etc. I probably need 1000 thousands interactions to be able to grow myself enough to be attractive to a girl I like. I already met several girls in the past which I loved to have a relationship with them but because I haven't grown as a men I couldn't have nothing with them. So for me pick up is not just about finding sex , pick up (or at least any kind of dating practice) is necessary for me to even have a relationship! 

I think a lot of PUAs start like me and a lot of people don't realize that 

[Thestarguitarist14]

2 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Whats the alternitive besides pick up?

Self love and self acceptance.  Healing.  Shadow work.  
 

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

I suggest you to look into the woman's version of pickup and watch for similarities

She is only looking for validation.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I mean I get it a lot of guys are into this thing called pickup game. 

But this thought was in my mind about how unhealthy or unconscious this has to be. 

Guys view dating as a game. They think of it as a sport. They think of it as hunting, fishing or gaming. I mean these are the labels that can be used to describe this phenomenon. 

Then, the question that arises in my mind is, wouldn't I consider the guy a predator? 

The one who hunts is considered a predator. 

So a pua guy picking up my heart isn't a predator? 

I somehow cannot wrap my mind around this whole pickup game and think it's normal or caring.. It looks super predatory to me. 

Also my heart is always looking for true love. I don't want a gamer. But a true lover..

At a time when I'm trying to raise my spiritual vibration, I should condemn something that I see as low conscious or unhealthy. 

I want people to look for real love and cultivate the path to conscious love and not look at love as a means to an end. 

Love should be about loving someone and not hunting or grifting someone to snatch what you want 

Did that make sense at all or nah?

What you have to understand is that that is your agenda based on your needs as a woman.

Guys have a different agenda.

It's just that simple.

You must also consider that for guys to attract girls, the guy has to take the lead and do the work. It doesn't happen passively for guys as it does for many girls. If the guy doesn't go out and hunt, he starves.

Hunting is not predatory in some evil sense here. The guy could be hunting for his dream girlfriend/wife. In fact, that's what most guys probably want. But to get her, they must first learn how to hunt in general. You can't just land your dream girl with one attempt. It takes a lot of work and practice. Hunting is not mutually exclusive to romance and love.

Dating can be done unconsciously or consciously, and many shades in between.

And don't forget, just because a guy doesn't get into pickup does not mean he don't abuse or manipulate women. He certainly will as he will be even more desperate and lacking the hunting skills. A starving limping wolf is more dangerous than a strong well-fed wolf.

Also, pickup is not merely about hunting girls. It's most about transforming oneself into a better man in order to attract and keep higher quality girls. In the end the guy will discover that tricking girls doesn't work, so the guy is forced to grow himself to get the best girls.

None of this makes much sense from the girl's perspective because you are not tasked with the burden of approaching. You should be thankful that you don't have to carry that burden because it's quite heavy.

Do some guys abuse it? Of course!

See, the thing is, women LOVE a strong guy. But they don't love the process which a guy must go through to become strong. Women only want the end-result of the work. Women expect that strength to be effortless, natural, and free, without any work. They don't want to know how the sausage is made.

Also, you should realize that what you call "real love" isn't real love. It is selfishness and survival. Women do not love men unconditionally. You are attracted to strong men who fit your survival needs. You are attracted to weak, needy, humorless men.

Men will love women unconditionally the same day that women love men unconditionally. Which is never. All romantic activities are highly conditional, biased, and selfish.

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should be thankful that you don't have to carry that burden because it's quite heavy.

I think dealing constantly with such men especially when they are not conscious, it's a heavy burden as well. 

It's difficult for a woman to differentiate between a man who is trained to mimic a high quality man only to manipulate her versus a real or genuine high quality man. 

It's tough for women to keep chaffing these men and wasting their time on such men and missing out on the good wolves. 

How to do that?