Money & The Future Of Money Thread.

[LfcCharlie4]

I wanted to start this thread to discuss Money, a topic many people like to ignore in their lives and push it away. 

Firstly, we have 'Personal Finance' and learning how to become financially free, escape wage slavery, build good money habits etc. So, anyone who had any tips on this please leave below, it is important life skill if we want to remain in society of course. 

Then, we have the future of money & how it will evolve as society evolves into green & eventually tier 2. 

Of course you hear about the 'end of money' which sounds great (think Star Trek clip) but I feel is 100s if not 1000s of years away as would require a globally Turquoise society focused solely on the betterment of mankind. 

So, for now and the near future, I would like to have a discussion on how we can utilize money effectively in our personal lives & collectively, here's my ideas / topics of discussion: 

• Creating your own wealth consciously either through a career / business / investments that actually help people and contribute to the betterment of Mankind. This could be anything from being a pro athlete in the sport you love & spreading love, to being a Spiritual Teacher and helping awaken people, to selling Yoga Mats online, we all have our own ways!
• Using money consciously- Supporting small business, helping businesses that are focused on betterment of society, investing in companies that are good for humanity etc
• Conscious Corporations- @Leo Gura covers this well in his Politics videos, but preventing Monopolies & making sure Corps are actually working for the good of society 
• The Banking System- The whole system is very, very corrupt when you look into it, essentially there is never enough money in circulation to be paid back, so the banks always win, a little like Casino's and Bookmakers, something needs to be done about this, I can't imagine Payday loans will exist in a more conscious society lol. 
• UBI / Survival needs- This will prevent people dedicating their lives to survival, like so many do now, it's just about how we implement it of course. 

 

Any other ideas anyone may have!

 

I look forward to a fun discussion!

[Gidiot]

Great thread! I have my own ideas which mind you aren’t heavily research but come from a more intuitive sense.

 I’m hung up on currency and how to make currency better, we want to make the world a a better place and invest in better companies and the banking systems are really corrupt so I’d have to say we eventually have to revolutionize our currency, does it always have to be m1/m2 (paper/gold/bonds/ credit cards connected to a bank, could you do a social credit system - like China but was less authoritarian(less 1984 more Star Trek) I sort of like the Star Trek idea, credits for pooping, sleeping well, eating healthy, walking around, making love etc. this is a turquoise idea or maybe a high yellow one, 

I doubt turquoise would have currency at all. 
 

employment is the biggest issue and we need to first pay people a ubi or at least a living wage for even the crappiest job and make sure big banks charge lower interest to consumers because they barely if ever charge interest to each other, I don’t like the idea of credit scores and maybe they can be improved an reformed, and I don’t like the idea of accruing medical or educational debt of any kind. 
 

maybe ^ this needs to be done before a revamp to currency but yea I like this thread and your ideas. I think via the law of attraction and so it makes sense that when you are in alignment with your life purpose and having fun in your work and life that more abundant energy will pour out of you attracting the same energy to you.

maybe that’s too woo woo but in my direct experience is 100% accurate,

I think finance as it’s taught is also maybe too cold and dead and maybe in a higher society “spiritual wealth” can be taught. 
 

also with money I think eventually shifting the conversation from “ taxation is theft” to “fair taxation” is our duty is a great goal 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Gidiot

[LfcCharlie4]

@Gidiot Thanks for the response!

Yes, I agree RE: do we need currency? BUT, we could only do a China like system when corruption & power hungry leaders are not in charge, right now it would be abused- you disagree with me, you don't get to feed your family etc, again I feel we're not ready for that. 

With Banking I highly recommend reading about the Federal Reserve and how corrupt the banking system is, in terms of 'Conspiracies' it's the one that certainly has a lot of validity to it, as quite literally debt & the banking system leads to many of the issues we see today. Say you loan a friend £1000 to start a business, you wouldn't then ask for £1200 back would you? Problem is most 'bankers' don't want to admit this devilry as they make MILLIONS from it. 

Yeah, I feel we will always need some form of exchange, even in Turquoise, maybe not money, but something I'd imagine, but who knows. 

Agree with LOA, some Non-Duality teachers like Francis Lucille talk about the Law of abundance, he even states it as a pre-requisite before one begins truly teaching Advaita, albeit his standards are very high, which I think is good with the 1000s of half baked teachers out there these days. 

Yeah. Spiritual wealth / Law of abundance, seeing money as something positive you receive for providing value. 

I'd be happy to pay more taxes if I actually knew where it was going & how it was benefitting society, the current system isn't very transparent. 

[aurum]

6 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

• Creating your own wealth consciously either through a career / business / investments that actually help people and contribute to the betterment of Mankind. This could be anything from being a pro athlete in the sport you love & spreading love, to being a Spiritual Teacher and helping awaken people, to selling Yoga Mats online, we all have our own ways!
• Using money consciously- Supporting small business, helping businesses that are focused on betterment of society, investing in companies that are good for humanity etc
• Conscious Corporations- @Leo Gura covers this well in his Politics videos, but preventing Monopolies & making sure Corps are actually working for the good of society 
• The Banking System- The whole system is very, very corrupt when you look into it, essentially there is never enough money in circulation to be paid back, so the banks always win, a little like Casino's and Bookmakers, something needs to be done about this, I can't imagine Payday loans will exist in a more conscious society lol. 
• UBI / Survival needs- This will prevent people dedicating their lives to survival, like so many do now, it's just about how we implement it of course. 

I'll add to this:

• Worker cooperatives instead of traditional top down hierarchies
• Local economies and currency instead of global corporations
• Zero or negative interest rate loans
• Demurrage currency instead of money that compounds
• Eco-backed currency / eco-credits instead of fiat currency
• UBI or UBS instead of wage slavery
• 100% wealth tax over a certain amount instead of infinite wealth accumlation
• Public money creation instead of private, for-profit money creation
• Community consensus for new businesses instead of exploitative businesses
• Gift economy instead of endless commodities
• Ending or looser intellectual property rights
• Green taxes instead of externalities

[NatureB]

A few ideas of mine that I haven't really thought through completely but which still sound good to me:

No interest fees above a certain percent, say 12% for loans and such, and absolutely no hidden fees. It is too easy to get trapped in a cycle of debt, and it is too hard to get out of it. On my first car loan I was paying 26%. I don't want anyone else to have to go through that.

UBI would be amazing. I follow Andrew Yang on this one. UBI would make society more creative and more resilient. For example, in the midst of a global health pandemic when 60% of gig jobs are gone. This would also help single mothers who really get fucked by our current system.

We can do a sliding scale for the salary of CEOs. Depending on how large the corporation is, the CEO could receive up to 20x - 50x the lowest paid employee. Right now CEOs average 300x the average employee I believe. It is not compassionate to pay janitors and low-skilled workers such an extremely low wage, and we need to address it. A principle here is that everybody only prospers when the collective prospers.

I like your idea of fair taxation. Politicians are very skilled at selling the majority of Americans that taxes are a bad thing. I love public services like roads, firefighters, police. Imagine society without these basic things and it becomes clear why we need taxes.

 

One off the wall idea would be that we all have a chip of some sort implanted in us, or on our phone like a virtual ID card. This would be amazing. Im agine never losing your wallet because it never leaves you. Or imagine having a global passport upon birth. You can go anywhere. George Harrison and his friends made an "Earth passport" in the 60s and I like that idea.

 

[LfcCharlie4]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

I'll add to this:

• Worker cooperatives instead of traditional top down hierarchies
• Local economies and currency instead of global corporations
• Zero or negative interest rate loans
• Demurrage currency instead of money that compounds
• Eco-backed currency / eco-credits instead of fiat currency
• UBI or UBS instead of wage slavery
• 100% wealth tax over a certain amount instead of infinite wealth accumlation
• Public money creation instead of private, for-profit money creation
• Community consensus for new businesses instead of exploitative businesses
• Gift economy instead of endless commodities
• Ending or looser intellectual property rights
• Green taxes instead of externalities

Love this list ngl! 
 

Id even change the wealth tax, to you either invest in startups / projects you believe in or it goes to tax. 
 

I think a true UBI will be a game changer as people will be more free than ever. 
 

1 hour ago, NatureB said:

A few ideas of mine that I haven't really thought through completely but which still sound good to me:

No interest fees above a certain percent, say 12% for loans and such, and absolutely no hidden fees. It is too easy to get trapped in a cycle of debt, and it is too hard to get out of it. On my first car loan I was paying 26%. I don't want anyone else to have to go through that.

UBI would be amazing. I follow Andrew Yang on this one. UBI would make society more creative and more resilient. For example, in the midst of a global health pandemic when 60% of gig jobs are gone. This would also help single mothers who really get fucked by our current system.

We can do a sliding scale for the salary of CEOs. Depending on how large the corporation is, the CEO could receive up to 20x - 50x the lowest paid employee. Right now CEOs average 300x the average employee I believe. It is not compassionate to pay janitors and low-skilled workers such an extremely low wage, and we need to address it. A principle here is that everybody only prospers when the collective prospers.

I like your idea of fair taxation. Politicians are very skilled at selling the majority of Americans that taxes are a bad thing. I love public services like roads, firefighters, police. Imagine society without these basic things and it becomes clear why we need taxes.

 

One off the wall idea would be that we all have a chip of some sort implanted in us, or on our phone like a virtual ID card. This would be amazing. Im agine never losing your wallet because it never leaves you. Or imagine having a global passport upon birth. You can go anywhere. George Harrison and his friends made an "Earth passport" in the 60s and I like that idea.

 

I think eventually interest rates will be scrapped, the whole basis of the fed is exploitation, there’s never enough money to pay back, so they will always end up seizing assets. 
 

Yep, I like Leo’s idea of also choosing where your taxes go, it’s pretty awesome. 
 

Yeah, the chip think will only work once the corruption is riddled out, or we could end up like China, where you don’t do as you say and you lose credits, that’s very dangerous in the wrong hands. But that’s the conspiracy theorist in me coming out lol. 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

45 minutes ago, datamonster said:

@LfcCharlie4 Interesting topic.

Let me layout my current personal finance strategy (open for criticism). 

Here are my 7 steps. I'm currently at 5/6.

1) Learn a valuable skill

Ideally something you enjoy doing, that you're good at and that is needed. This is the foundation to make money in the first place.

2) Pay off all your debt (if you have any)

Cuz your not gonna build financial independence as long as you have debt.

3) Save 12 times your monthly net income

This gives room to beath and a nice safety net that allows you to stop worrying about money. No matter what happens, you and your current lifestyle will be covered for at least a year.

4) Invest about 20% of your monthly income every month

I currently invest primarily in index funds (ETFs). I don't care if the current price is high or low, I just buy more every month. The fluctuations will average out in the long run. It also doesn't hurt to have 10%-15% invested in gold and about 1%-5% in a big crypto currency (I'd only buy Bitcoin or Etherium). I also buy a few individuals stocks, but this is more for fun. I'm planning to go about 30% in real estate, but the market is too uncertain for me ATM. Later I might also add some bonds, but not now since bonds don't hedge against inflation.

Avoid: Futures, options, going short, leverage and too much crypto 

5) Donate

While personal finance is important we shouldn't forget how fortunate we are to even be able to save a single dollar. I would often forget to donate. Now I have an app by UNICEF that allows you to donate a meal to people in need. You can donate starting from 0.70ct (which is one meal). I often do it before I have a meal.

6) Focus on making more not saving more

I see trends online of people going extremely frugal to retire early. This is not me. I believe if they just invested 10% of the time they spent on saving money into making money, they'd be far more effective.

7) Become a private equity investor

Once you have a certain amount of financial freedom, start investing in companies and projects you really care about as a business angel for example.

Hope this helps and feel free to share your thoughts

Love this list. If you wanna accelerate it further than just do business instead of skill. For example, let’s say you make 20k/ month from your job after a decade, and someone builds a business to 20k/ net in the same timeframe, they could sell that business for around 600k & then leverage that income. 
 

Defo agree with making more, not saving more, it’s why I’m always reinvesting instead of hoarding. I’d also say if you follow the right Crytpo guys you can get huge gains on some alt coins, but takes research. 

[tuckerwphotography]

@datamonster How do you feel about investing in the stock market which is supporting / propping up the current capitalist system that leads to mass exploitation on a global scale, ecological harm and a system based on winners and losers? I'm not claiming to be holier than thou nor am I some radical left wing socialist, but I did choose to take all my money out of the stock market in January as it no longer felt congruent with my ethics nor with the future I hope to help create. That said, I don't have a great alt investment scenario at the moment, so I'm curious to hear how others have navigated this.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Love this list ngl! 

Thanks man! Figured you would

I want to add something to what I wrote. The way I'm thinking about the new way we use money is it's all about Ceilings and Floors.

Ceilings = Max of how much money / power someone is allowed to accumulate

Floor = Minimum of how much money / power someone is allowed to accumulate.

For instance, the 100% wealth tax is very obviously attempt at a Ceiling. It ensures that no one accumulates more than say, $2 million dollars.

Then that money would be used to fund a Floor like UBI.

So the Ceilings and the Floors work together.

Demurrage currency is a Ceiling and Floor is one policy. If money loses value over time instead of simply compounding, that creates a sort of Ceiling of how much one can or would even want to accumulate. It's also a Floor because if someone doesn't have enough, people are going to be far more likely to give what they have to them. It decreases the importance of money on both ends.

Gift Economy is also a Ceiling / Floor combo. If I'm operating by gift, the amount of money I'm likely to accumulate is small (Ceiling). At the same time, gifts are either free or within the affordability of the receiver (Floor).

And maybe none of these specific ideas actually work out. But this Ceiling / Floor as a concept is going to be present in whatever system does take hold.

[tuckerwphotography]

@datamonster Thanks for your response! I understand your perspective, and it makes sense. I think for me I'm in the privileged position of being able to step outside of the system to some extent, and I feel called to do this when possible. Ultimately change happens when people create the change they wish to see in the world. The best way I know how to do that is to embody that change myself. Whether that's by removing my money from the stock market, switching from big banks and to a local credit union, shopping at local stores and co-ops vs chains, donating money to community-led organizations, saving and reusing items vs purchasing new stuff, discovering my Life Purpose and taking the steps to find a vocation that helps others and pays the bills, downsizing my house and reducing my expenses, taking public transit more often, etc. These are all small drops in the bucket, but if millions and then billions of people take these steps they will lead to a much more rapid evolution and transformation of our current systems. The macro systemic changes are much more multi-faceted and complex, but on an individual level we all have to start somewhere. Just my two cents...no pun on words  

Edited October 5, 2020 by tuckerwphotography

[LfcCharlie4]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Thanks man! Figured you would

I want to add something to what I wrote. The way I'm thinking about the new way we use money is it's all about Ceilings and Floors.

Ceilings = Max of how much money / power someone is allowed to accumulate

Floor = Minimum of how much money / power someone is allowed to accumulate.

For instance, the 100% wealth tax is very obviously attempt at a Ceiling. It ensures that no one accumulates more than say, $2 million dollars.

Then that money would be used to fund a Floor like UBI.

So the Ceilings and the Floors work together.

Demurrage currency is a Ceiling and Floor is one policy. If money loses value over time instead of simply compounding, that creates a sort of Ceiling of how much one can or would even want to accumulate. It's also a Floor because if someone doesn't have enough, people are going to be far more likely to give what they have to them. It decreases the importance of money on both ends.

Gift Economy is also a Ceiling / Floor combo. If I'm operating by gift, the amount of money I'm likely to accumulate is small (Ceiling). At the same time, gifts are either free or within the affordability of the receiver (Floor).

And maybe none of these specific ideas actually work out. But this Ceiling / Floor as a concept is going to be present in whatever system does take hold.

That makes a lot of sense, so are you saying the issue now is the ceiling is far too high / doesn’t even exist, and the floors are far too low basically? 
 

Personally think $2M is too little, but maybe things will he worth less in the future in relation? 
 

So, basically decreasing the importance of money, to increase the importance of higher conscious values like happiness, wellbeing, health, love etc? 

[aurum]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

That makes a lot of sense, so are you saying the issue now is the ceiling is far too high / doesn’t even exist, and the floors are far too low basically? 

Yeah you got it. Jeff Bezos has how much money now? And how many people are struggling to meet their basic needs? It's unconscionable, and the sign of an out of balanced system.

You're into personal finance so you know how this works. Money makes you more money. If I get a million dollars, suddenly it's a whole lot easier to make that second million. This is true, and it's also a major problem.

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Personally think $2M is too little, but maybe things will he worth less in the future in relation? 
 

It's just a number I threw out there to introduce the idea of a Ceiling. But you're right, because wealth is contextual, that $2M might seem like a lot more. If there was massive deflation then the number would obviously have to change.

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

So, basically decreasing the importance of money, to increase the importance of higher conscious values like happiness, wellbeing, health, love etc? 

Yes.

The problem is we are worshiping an abstraction. Why else are people protesting for "human-centered capitalism"? Shouldn't that be what we already have? But we don't. We have "Money-for-the-sake-of-money capitalism".

When we don't research holistic nature medicine because there's no money in it, that's us worshiping an abstraction.

When we destroy our own environment because of corporate profit, that's us worshiping an abstraction.

When we engage in wage slavery, that's us worshiping an abstraction.

I could go on and on but I think you already understand this. Money needs to be brought back to reality. And the reality is it doesn't really mean fuck all, it's just a web of agreements. What's actually important are the things you listed.

[LfcCharlie4]

@aurum You're like the conscious older cousin I never had 

To be honest, I feel this could be why we are seeing more 'radical' politics these days, in terms of the left getting more left, and the right getting more right. 

Because the injustices are getting bigger by the day, the responses to them are becoming further and further apart, which makes it harder and harder for any meaningful discussion to happen, instead we just see arguments and petty 'debates' on TV that are mud slinging contests. 

And, I couldn't agree more, I'm in a lot of business groups on FB for my online business, and the survival / selfish desires are so clear, supporting Low / No taxes, thinking money is everything, proper excess Stage Orange stuff. IT's funny to see that now, as when I was 14, I also believed all of it, so I can see why they're trapped with how we are brought up. 

I look forward to a day where the focus is on Humanity's happiness, health, wellbeing, love, passion etc. 

The most ironic thing is that will push progress at a far greater rate than any late stage Capitalism could. 

And, yep, in our society having money makes making money 1000x easier. A limit would help a lot, and just people becoming more conscious so this money at least goes to conscious businesses and not shareholder-focused Earth destroying Corporations. 

Sounds strange, but I'm watching the US Office (Hilarious and great show) right now, and it is such a good resemblance of how the majority see their job- a way to pay the bills. Basically, the whole office is not in their dream job, and most don't even know their dream job!

[aurum]

19 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

You're like the conscious older cousin I never had 

Thanks lil cuz

19 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

I look forward to a day where the focus is on Humanity's happiness, health, wellbeing, love, passion etc. 

The most ironic thing is that will push progress at a far greater rate than any late stage Capitalism could. 

It's going to be beautiful. As it must, because our state of consciousness is becoming beautiful.

[tuckerwphotography]

Sharing these links. Haven't researched them much, but they came up in a conversation about regenerative economics that I had today. 

https://beliive.com

https://www.joinseeds.com

https://copiosis.com

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by tuckerwphotography

[Don Wei]

I noticed something important within myself, I understand and agree with what you guys are saying, but somewhere deep I feel a resistance because my old goal 3 years ago was to make as much money as possible, and I viewed self improvement and spirituality in a much more shallow manner. Now I still want to make a lot of money, but it's more like a bonus to me now. My goals have changed, but in order to have more options in life and be more free I still want to make more money. It's kinda like some kind of basis thing to have while pursuing my real goals. Maybe that's why I feel my ego low self get scared.