Matthew Santoro comment on Leo’s New video lol

[Nahm]

The same era / generation which dubbed psychedelics ‘bad’ also repurposed the term ‘conspiracy theory’ / or ‘theorist’. A conspiracy is when two people break the law. Like if my kids take money out of my wallet. Lol. I am not the conspiracy theorist which questions and investigates this - they are what the word conspiracy points to. What’s in question is if my little devils teamed up, planned it, and executed the plan. If so, they conspired. An investigator is not a conspiracist, or a conspiracy theorist. The people being investigated are being investigated to determine if they conspired - which only means, if they broke a law knowingly together. The only relevant information is who, what laws, and if they were broken. The best way that I can think of in mustering & exercising as much devilry as possible to break laws with my buds and have our actions go unchecked, would be to sling identity onto those who are potentially inspecting, and passive aggressively (even that is saying too much) attack their self esteem, self worth, character, reputation, and self image. With a label. That has no actual meaning. 

[Scholar]

19 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@Scholar

"I think there is an important distinction to be made between sex-trafficking of underage people and actual pedophelia."

Yes, there is. It lies within body development.

Body and mind, which is the relevant factor here in terms of how damaging it is to a person. Or do you think having sex with a 17 year old is the same as having sex with a 5 year old?

There is also a difference between being attracted to a 16 year old, which I remember hearing  was in a study found to be the most physically attractive age to men on average, versus being attracted to a 8 year old, which is abnormal obviously.

 

I don't think Sex Trafficking is good either way, but saying it was a pedophile ring draws a very different picture from the rather usualy underage sex trafficking that is very common in the world. Especially if the persons were around the age bracket of 17 rather than something like 12.

[Consept]

55 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The same era / generation which dubbed psychedelics ‘bad’ also repurposed the term ‘conspiracy theory’ / or ‘theorist’. A conspiracy is when two people break the law. Like if my kids take money out of my wallet. Lol. I am not the conspiracy theorist which questions and investigates this - they are what conspiracy points to. What’s in question is if my little devils teamed up, planned it, and executed the plan. If so, they conspired. An investigator is not a conspiracist, or a conspiracy theorist. The people being investigated are being investigated to determine if they conspired - which only means, if they broke a law knowingly together. The only relevant information is who, what laws, and if they were broken. The best way that I can think of in mustering & exercising as much devilry as possible to break laws with my buds and have our actions go unchecked, would be to sling identity onto those who are potentially inspecting, and passive aggressively (even that is saying too much) attack their self esteem, self worth, character, reputation, and self image. With a label. That has no actual meaning. 

You can change the label but to say that so called 'conspiracy theorists' are just impartially questioning things that are happening would be a bit of a stretch. There's all kinds of logical fallacies, stunted reasoning, circular logic, that goes on, also most of these conspiracies are either proven to be untrue or are unprovable either way, an impartial investigator would have to say they don't know at this juncture, but from what ive seen this is rarely the case, most conspiracy theorists have a certainty about these theories, this is bad investigating. I'm sure there could be conspiracy theorists that are good investigators but I would say they would be exceptions. 

There's also this idea that conspiracy theorist are shown to be crazy in media, this is not entirely true, there are many films and TV shows where the only one that believes in the conspiracy is the hero, 24, Arlington Road, The Bourne Series, Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson, Enemy of the State, Da Vinci Code, many more. So this whole thing about conspiracy theorists being derided is simply not true in popular media. In a way we probably all want someone to expose the shadiness of those in power, but the way most conspiracy theorists try and do it actually can get in the way of those that are pointing to real corruption, just that real stuff like corporate fraud is boring, reptilian overlord sex traffickers is a lot more exciting 

[Preety_India]

4 hours ago, Vipassana said:

Whats needed most is a crackdown on corruption & that comes with healthy blue. 

Sush was murdered.  

You need to understand a lot of things about Indian society. 

Indian society has a lot of toxic masculinity in it. Boys aren't raised properly or in a healthy way. They are raised as cash cows. Parents only care about how much money he will bring into the family. The father does not care about the son's issues. The mother is never allowed to speak her opinion so she simply obeys the father 

With Sush, he is the prime example of toxic masculinity. He was suffering from deep psychological issues that were inherited from his mother because she had similar issues and she died a similar way. Now Sush already suffered from the trauma of the mothers loss. But he was suffering as well. Most mental health patients don't suddenly commit suicide in their 20s, it takes time for them to reach the breaking point. It usually happens in mid 30s or mid 40s..that's when the mid life crisis hits and people with psychological issues can't deal with stress unlike normal people. Now in his case, his symptoms were getting worse and worse with time. His family is acting supportive because he is dead. But there was nobody with him at the time of his death. His medicines were not even delivered by his family but by a private agent. He relied on his girlfriend for support but she knew that his symptoms are gradually spiralling out of control.. She took him to a good doctor but his family still did nothing for him. His girlfriend was the only one who took him for hospital visits. His family is hiding all this because they don't want to look guilty. They want someone to blame to feel better. And Indians are too scared to talk about their own family. 

Sush had  lot of money so even if he donated a huge sum, that wouldn't be a cause of his suicide. He was very generous with money. His main concern was his mental issues.. He knew that with such issues he can't continue working for long. Now because society is such a way that men are not allowed to cry. They are considered weak if they cry, this was the main problem with Sush. He as a man was not allowed to feel weak. He did not tell anyone about his issues out of shame and guilt. He did not have the confidence to seek help or tell people that he was anxious or depressed because people would call him a weak man and as a movie star he would lose his position if he appeared depressed, so he had to always put on a show that he was happy even if his symptoms were getting worse. With the doctor's treatment his issues were slightly improved for some time, but mental health issues are such, that symptoms are controlled only for some time and they tend to reappear. It's very hard to beat and being a public figure makes it tougher to get privacy and people with such issues need a ton of privacy, now in Indian society there is a huge stigma and shame for mental illness, combined with toxic masculinity where a man is not allowed to express weakness, this is double shame, plus the family always wants the son to keep making money and the pressure for success is very high in Indian families, so the boys don't want to disappoint the families, so triple shame. Now being a celebrity means he is supposed to be happy all the time, so a lot of public pressure and no peace of mind. And the fear of losing career if he tells his problems openly. And in India, the mental health resources are close to zero, you hardly find a good doctor and going to such a doctor is considered a very shameful thing because it's like the person has a huge problem, when in reality it can be easily resolved with good treatment. So he was trapped from all sides by a high pressure Indian family structure and the pressure from the industry, and the third class social mentality of shaming men for their weaknesses and bullying mentality of Indian society, bullying men for their failure, even an average Indian guy feels like a failure in life if he is not able to earn enough, he will be bullied by the father to get successful in life 

Compounded by all these social and medical factors (poor health resources, no doctors, Unempathetic attitude to mental issues) there is the suicide of Disha that happened right one week before his. That caused him massive anxiety. And you know how the Indian system is. The police will not do the work properly and pin the blame on someone, there is no democratic process or lawful process, they will simply find some scapegoat to blame and arrest and close the case immediately. There is mentality to find someone to blame for anything instead of taking collective social responsibility because that means hard work that the government people don't want to do. Sush felt very insecure and scared that he will be blamed for her suicide which is natural in Indian society. His own suicide is being blamed on others. He had do much anxiety over her death that he was constantly Google searching every news article on her for the whole week. He was already suffering from issues and now his anxiety went through the roof. He was ordering the medicine from his agent secretly, he became frustrated and committed suicide. Now the family didn't care what his issues were, neither in life, nor in death, they wanted no responsibility, they wanted to act like they were grieving his death and his loss meant a big loss financially to them so they wanted to blame someone and make it look like murder. That way they don't have to feel guilty for not supporting him. This is the story and not the story fed by media. The media is presstitute. They want trp and money out of his story so they make a big drama out of it but nobody wants to give peace to his soul. He was a victim of ruthless Indian society that only cares for success and wealth and toxic orange. But looks at anything outside this box as loser or failure. 

You don't understand it because you're not looking at the bigger picture. The only way to bring peace to his soul is to stop Indian fathers from shaming or pressuring the sons, reducing the toxic orange mentality, removing the shame associated with depression and other issues, getting better medical support for people without shame, making parents aware of their own health issues that can pass to children, giving proper resources to men to feel stronger mentally so they don't break down, not giving them pressure for success understanding men's heath issues and resolving men's issues, not treating the man like a cash cow, helping men to integrate the Feminine, some Indian families don't even allow the guy to date because they want to control his life or hold back his income, and the men are not allowed to join sports as a child, because sports is important for mental health, but the family wants him as a cash cow, so they tell the guy to only study and become a nerd, don't give him resources to become a full man, understanding male needs and issues and then helping them to become stronger in life so they can face real life situations which is not done by Indian families, also accepting male weakness rather than shaming it at the same time giving him resources to become strong, men should be allowed to play and work at young age to become independent, men like to work because it gives them a sense of importance and pride. But the indian system doesn't allow him to be independent, they don't allow him to have his own house, he is kept attached to the family like a little boy, so he does not grow mentally, he is always dependent on parents for everything, unable to face life on his own, this makes him mentally weak, because he is always sheltered by the father and controlled by the father, and even the mother, and so the boy's mental growth is not proper so even if a little bad thing happens in their life, a small setback and they commit suicide because they are not prepared by the families to face ups and downs of life.. It's a social structure designed around wealth and toxic orange success and this is the reason why such men finally commit suicide 

 

[Nahm]

39 minutes ago, Consept said:

You can change the label but to say that so called 'conspiracy theorists' are just impartially questioning things that are happening would be a bit of a stretch. There's all kinds of logical fallacies, stunted reasoning, circular logic, that goes on, also most of these conspiracies are either proven to be untrue or are unprovable either way, an impartial investigator would have to say they don't know at this juncture, but from what ive seen this is rarely the case, most conspiracy theorists have a certainty about these theories, this is bad investigating. I'm sure there could be conspiracy theorists that are good investigators but I would say they would be exceptions. 

There's also this idea that conspiracy theorist are shown to be crazy in media, this is not entirely true, there are many films and TV shows where the only one that believes in the conspiracy is the hero, 24, Arlington Road, The Bourne Series, Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson, Enemy of the State, Da Vinci Code, many more. So this whole thing about conspiracy theorists being derided is simply not true in popular media. In a way we probably all want someone to expose the shadiness of those in power, but the way most conspiracy theorists try and do it actually can get in the way of those that are pointing to real corruption, just that real stuff like corporate fraud is boring, reptilian overlord sex traffickers is a lot more exciting 

You might be mistaking what I’m saying. I am not changing a label, and I am not talking about conspiracy theorists. I am saying it’s a legal matter. People either broke a law or they did not. Then maybe laws & regulations change, maybe not. Just like if you were to rob a house. Nobody cares about your story legally speaking, you either did or didn’t rob a house, and laws about robbing houses change, or don’t. 

 

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, Nahm said:

You might be mistaking what I’m saying. I am not changing a label, and I am not talking about conspiracy theorists. I am saying it’s a legal matter. People either broke a law or they did not. Then maybe laws & regulation changes, maybe not. Just like if you were to rob a house. Nobody cares about your story legally speaking, you either did or didn’t rob a house. 

 

I might be, as far as I understand you're saying that those who are investigating others of wrong doing are being labelled in a way which attacks them and makes their investigation look invalid. Those that are doing the labelling are those suspected of wrong doing. 

I would say a conspiracy theorist is a separate thing in that they are people that believe speculation, usually about an over arching idea of those in power trying to get more power. They look to confirm this by picking disparate information and connecting dots to come to a conclusion.

I would also say that their could be some people that investigate these claims seriously and impartially, if you like you can call these investigators. However there are so many conspiracy theorists who earnestly believe in them that it detracts from any real investigation, I would say this does more damage to real investigations than any campaign those in power could do to smear conspiracy theorists 

[Vipassana]

@Preety_India great analysis of the indian familial demographics. I don't have any objections about what you mentioned about the cultural because but I am living through it. I have invested some time and my family has invested alot of time analyzing the events that occured before, during and after the supposed suicide & now seeing how the mumbai police responded to it. 

This is the shame with labeling everything a conspiracy, the Truth can be turned upside down.. even if its just a kernel. 

I think the Truth will come out. Bollywood gundas have gotten away with alot of shit & people are tired of it.

As far as what you said, that was quite a bit of projection but I cant prove you wrong. There is no way I can put together months of analysis in a single thread.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Vipassana

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

I might be, as far as I understand you're saying that those who are investigating others of wrong doing are being labelled in a way which attacks them and makes their investigation look invalid.

I’m not even trying to go that far really. Just that the terms, conspiracy, conspire, has nothing to do with the identity of a person looking into it. As an example, imagine if someone was alleging they’re being abused. They wouldn’t call an ‘Abuse Theorist’. The subject matter at hand of abuse is not associated with the identity of a Police Officer, Detective, Social Worker, or maybe Nurse who looks into the abuse. 

Quote

Those that are doing the labelling are those suspected of wrong doing. 

Not necessarily. 

Quote

I would say a conspiracy theorist is a separate thing  -  in that they are people that believe speculation, usually about an over arching idea of those in power trying to get more power. They look to confirm this by picking disparate information and connecting dots to come to a conclusion.

And I would say they’re you. ? What difference that makes if any in terms of identity remains to be seen. 

Quote

I would also say that their could be some people that investigate these claims seriously and impartially, if you like you can call these investigators. However there are so many conspiracy theorists who earnestly believe in them that it detracts from any real investigation, I would say this does more damage to real investigations than any campaign those in power could do to smear conspiracy theorists 

Again, I wouldn’t say it detracts someone else. If it detracts, I would say I am detracted. ‘Real investigation’ likewise imo, if it is to be defined as anything, it could not be secondary to your investigation. Not in the personal sense, but in the ‘direct experience is always king’ sense. I don’t know if I would agree that labeling people as separate things such as conspiracy theorists is a ‘campaign’ in that way. It seemed like a one-off kind of thing to me. Like each of us do or don’t. 

 

[ajai]

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Indian society has a lot of toxic masculinity in it. Boys aren't raised properly or in a healthy way. They are raised as cash cows.

Very well put Preetz, well appreciate it.

?

So this is the actual whole story behind this "Shush" case, thank-you for this that was quite very well elaborated connecting all dots of the messy matrix.

?

Do you mind if I call you Preetz, ? ?

Edited October 6, 2020 by ajai

[Preety_India]

@ajai not at all. You can call me Preetz

 

 

[ajai]

20 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@ajai not at all. You can call me Preetz

?

[JC Bailey]

I always thought "even if a conspiracy theory is true, who the hell cares?", and I'm glad it got brought up in that video. At one point, I watched a lot of Alex Jones thinking he was playing a character and eventually realized that he and most of his audience were for real, and thought to myself "oh, I guess people really don't know how to spend their free time".

Edited October 6, 2020 by JC Bailey

[Consept]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

I’m not even trying to go that far really. Just that the terms, conspiracy, conspire, has nothing to do with the identity of a person looking into it. As an example, imagine if someone was alleging they’re being abused. They wouldn’t call an ‘Abuse Theorist’. The subject matter at hand of abuse is not associated with the identity of a Police Officer, Detective, Social Worker, or maybe Nurse who looks into the abuse. 

OK let's take this example, if someone is abused that is a direct experience of something, they then call in someone who can investigate what happened. Imagine if someone, of their own accord started investigating abuses that were previously proven not to have happened and the investigation cherry picked and in some cases distorted truth, perhaps unconsciously because they believed the abuse happened. They then ran the name of who they were investigating through the mud and claimed that the professionals who investigated the abuse were paid off by the person that allegedly did it, even though they had no proof. Let's say they constantly do this and it actually affects real investigation. Would it be important to make a distinction between the person that does this and someone like a police officer whose job it is to investigate the abuse? 

 

[Nahm]

@Consept

To who?

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Consept

To who?

Who would it be important to make a distinction to? Anyone who wants to find out the truth of the situation, the person who was abused, their family, the police. Having someone untrained and biased distorting things will not help to find the truth of the situation, therefore if this is something they consistently do it would make sense to label them in such a way. If you look at a real world example of Sandy Hook, if Alex Jones was just seen as an investigator he couldve encouraged a lot more people to attack the grieving families, as it was that happened enough. This type of investigation is distinct from relatively unbiased investigation, as such it shouldnt be classed as the same thing, doesnt need to be 'conspiracy theory' but lumping it in with police investigations seems quite ridiculous.  

 

[Nahm]

21 minutes ago, Consept said:

lumping it in with police investigations seems quite ridiculous.  

Then don’t. 

[Adam M]

Realistically, the beginning of the video triggers people and they comment before even watching. This is apparently obvious.

The people who are actually open minded enough to watch the entire video agree that Leo touches on all of the important points about the delusions of most conspiracy theories.

 

"Your ego ran the entire video."

*laughs in tier 1 cognition*

[Akemrelax]

@Vipassana Why don’t you analyze the situation of farmers and working class people in India or the rape that recently happened or the countless times human rights are being violated by the government? Bollywood actor’s suicide < billions of poor people.

[Preety_India]

@Akemrelax exactly. I feel that. 

Like what a mockery right? 

 

 

[Oliver Saavedra]

On 4/10/2020 at 7:03 PM, Leo Gura said:

The mind's a genius at confirmation bias and cherrypicking data to justify its narratives.

I need to make shirt out of this quote, it sums it all up.