Going homeless to become enlightened unitive

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Nordin Just my 2 cents.

I don't enlightenment works the way you think it does. If something as simple as highschool is "preventing" you from becoming enlightened then I'd consider the possibility that no matter which way you go you will run into problems.

There are multiple paths a spiritual seeker takes on their quest for enlightenment, whatever that means. But one thing that happens is psychologically unstable people use enlightenment and spirituality to bypass the trials and tribulations of living and succeeding in the world. I fell into this category, and I made a lot of decisions based on my own projections and beliefs around enlightenment. 

The funny/sad thing is that the people who use spirituality in the way I mentioned above are the kinds of people who will ignore everything and just follow their impulse, even though they would benefit most from the advice they callously disregard.

Idk if you're like me in that your seeking is a driven by a host of psychological problems, but dropping out of high school seems unnecessarily bold, given your age.

[evgn]

So i am really confused.. You are already enlithtment and thats why you want to get out of the system or you pursue awakening?

[Barbara]

The ego has many ways of manifestation. You can perfectly be in a dissociation between what you think and how things would really go. To pursuit enlightenment you have to consider Maslow pyramid of needs. A homeless person will just be in constant struggle just to eat, have shelter, take a bath, be loved and love... For how bad things are they'll get much much worse if you have no house. Enlightenment while homeless is also really hard, since you will have no privacy, no time where you can just sit down, be in silence and meditate.  
However, i remember Leo saying that there are some humans who can actually pursuit enlightenment without having basic needs fulfilled. You can perfectly be one of those humans. For that, test yourself. Here's what i suggest:
-Talk to you family. Let them know where you are. Always speak truth with them. Don't exaggerate or understate your situation. Tell them all that you feel. See if you can come to a deal. Maybe you have some place else to stay in country side or maybe they can help you every month if you leave the house.
-Make a retreat. In Sweden you can make Vipassana taught by S.N. Goenka. Search it. One of the retreats https://sobhana.dhamma.org/the-centre-in-sweden/. Vipassana is utterly powerful. You will be able to test your self fully. 
-Try staying away one or two nights. Just in the streets. Be careful and safe. Go back home if needed.
-Try deep visualization. Visualize your self in the situation of quitting school and leave your family. Fear and resistance will be apart of it. It doesn't mean you don't want to do it, only that there will be a lot of struggle associated with it. Know that. Learn your body language.

And also, you are young, know that there's a lot to come. I'm not saying this so you postpone your decisions, but be humble about it. 
I wish you the absolute best 
Bárbara

[Barbara]

15 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Nordin Hey i was in a similar situation to you while i was in law school. I didn't really enjoy it, and in my mind there were so many great options with dropping out that it didn't really matter whether i stay or go.

I ended up dropping out, and i regret not staying and finishing the program. Even if you don't like it, finishing something you started is important I think, and especially with education. You will not look back in a few years and regret staying and finishing highschool, but there's a good chance you'll look back and regret dropping out.

I was a lot like you tbh. I only wanted to listen to the opinions of "awakened" people, and i was so sure that what i was doing would work because it was all in the name of enlightenment and spirituality.

I didn't listen to any of the warnings haha so if you're deadset on doing it then you probably won't listen either but I had to give my 2 cents given i just went through a similar situation.

Hey! I'm in the same situation at the moment. I'm in law school, last year, but i dislike it so much. Just wanna leave and live in the middle of nature, alone. I'm completing the last year for now tho..

[Leo Nordin]

22 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Nordin Just my 2 cents.

I don't enlightenment works the way you think it does. If something as simple as highschool is "preventing" you from becoming enlightened then I'd consider the possibility that no matter which way you go you will run into problems.

There are multiple paths a spiritual seeker takes on their quest for enlightenment, whatever that means. But one thing that happens is psychologically unstable people use enlightenment and spirituality to bypass the trials and tribulations of living and succeeding in the world. I fell into this category, and I made a lot of decisions based on my own projections and beliefs around enlightenment. 

The funny/sad thing is that the people who use spirituality in the way I mentioned above are the kinds of people who will ignore everything and just follow their impulse, even though they would benefit most from the advice they callously disregard.

Idk if you're like me in that your seeking is a driven by a host of psychological problems, but dropping out of high school seems unnecessarily bold, given your age.

Haha yes, well written my friend. You know 2 years ago I wanted to quit school to so called persue enlightenment. But as you said at that time I was pretty far away from Awakening and highschool for me was preventing me from becoming enlightened. But as you said again it was based on "physiological problems" I didn't know my potential and to reach that I craved quitting. There is way more to it and whether I regret it or not I don't know. I was about to get signed off from the school at that time but in the last second changed school. 

Some months ago I awakened. My body is almost completely at ease all the time. I am the creator of everything and I choose my experience of life. I dont have any physiological problems when I let myself be in a ecstatic state. Not otherwise either because I chose the ego to do what's needed. This will become of major importance if you awaken, some that has gone into the bliss too deep really struggle to eat and do whats needed. This is why I believe enlightened people die, in India I've heard they chose to leave their body (die) when they are done in this world. 

Quitting is very bold but for me it doesn't seem like a big deal. Because I just do what needed for what will allow me to let go of ego more. First I need some kind of income to live on for gym showers, van for sleep/food. And if it doesn't work out I have 1-2 years to reapply for school and continue second year. 

[Leo Nordin]

20 hours ago, evgn said:

So i am really confused.. You are already enlithtment and thats why you want to get out of the system or you pursue awakening?

Enlightenment is limitless and I don't think you can maintain it without dying because there won't be any reason for you to eat... I have awakened, so I not so much persue anything like that. I persue a life where I'll do the least that's needed to maintain my body in good health. Enlightenment feels easy because you just have to let go of all ego am I not right? When you are in the ecstatic state you can go deeper and deeper and enlightenment may come, I haven't had the time to try it out. Also I might not decide to become enlightened and instead do what I can for the world. Also to be enlightened I wouldn't create ego to write to you guys, because if I were in a enlightened state I wouldn't be here doing this. I am doing this because I see some worthwhile benefits for my future, ask yourself will what I have done still matter to me in 20 years? You atleest should do something that means something to you, otherwise what's the point. (just some simple advice for you whom may read this) 

[Leo Nordin]

@Barbara Thank you for your text. Also what would I fear with leaving school / family? . I quess my family will hate me for it and do anything to make it not happen, literally call the police, destroy my things, take my phone etc. I don't know how to handle this and my love probably won't reach them easily. That's why I haven't talked to them about it for a long time. Though I've hinted some to my mother. They don't know anything about life or spirituality and are very delusional and toxic. Any advice on how you would take it up with your family if you were me? 

Fear is self created, fear is an interesting feeling but I've had it enough in the past so I dont really allow it anymore. Fear was my most difficult obstacle to awakening. But the hardest obstacle was to find out what what awakening was. Took many many many many trials and errors. I awakened in less than 3 years after self awareness of all my thoughts. because of my rapid trials and errors. That's why I'm only 17 but has come far, I've always wanted to be happy as a child and I spend a lot of time trying to figure out life. Now I know so much that I have a strong clarity of where I want to go and and it's on almost every woken second during my days. Hope that inspired you?

[Barbara]

I said fear and resistance, since it might be scary leaving those things. Of course I was assuming you were somehow attached to it, and you know, fear is really just attachment and division. Since I don't know you, I can be wrong and disregard what i said if thats the case. What I meant is that if you try deep visualization and experience bad feelings, that might not mean you're going the wrong way. The right way, can feel hard to. But that's a very personal insight, probably doesn't ever matter in here. 

Well, I've never been near your situation, I really can't give you much advise on how to deal with a family such as yours. 
When I did vipassana, I did not talk to my parents for 15 days, and left the country for 35. They don't like or understand why I do these retreats, and still see me like a little girl, since I'm also young, but you know, I feel like telling them the truth about what I do, even if they don't understand, they get used to it. 
 

Best wishes 

[Leo Nordin]

@Barbara Best wishes yourself, thank you. Meet me in the future if you want to find out what were to become of our lives. I hope you can keep up with me?

[evgn]

You are really interesting young man i will be glad hear from you whatever you decide.

Edited October 17, 2020 by evgn

[Nahm]

On 10/5/2020 at 0:34 PM, Leo Nordin said:

I only want one thing, the freedom to be myself, to at least be blissful. 

You are you wherever you are.  Why can’t you be your blissful self in school? Who’s stopping you? 

Obviously you’re going to do what you’re going to do, and I’m not attempting to change your mind at all. I do think your inquiry however is kind of an impossible ask. In a way, you’re asking how do I give up a diploma, a residence / address, and make money - living in a van. Relative to income, van life is more challenging generally speaking. If you’re going to remain in Sweden anyways...why not have a diploma and an address to put on applications? Odds are you have like, eighty years, to go. Graduating high school seems kind of fundamental, and voluntarily choosing homelessness / van life seems, odd. I’m in the US though, and there is surely bias at my end. In the Us homeless unfortunately tends to equate to some pretty horrific situations of desperation for money. For all I know though, in Sweden it’s a joy ride. 

[Leo Nordin]

On 2020-10-20 at 11:10 PM, Nahm said:

You are you wherever you are.  Why can’t you be your blissful self in school? Who’s stopping you? 

Obviously you’re going to do what you’re going to do, and I’m not attempting to change your mind at all. I do think your inquiry however is kind of an impossible ask. In a way, you’re asking how do I give up a diploma, a residence / address, and make money - living in a van. Relative to income, van life is more challenging generally speaking. If you’re going to remain in Sweden anyways...why not have a diploma and an address to put on applications? Odds are you have like, eighty years, to go. Graduating high school seems kind of fundamental, and voluntarily choosing homelessness / van life seems, odd. I’m in the US though, and there is surely bias at my end. In the Us homeless unfortunately tends to equate to some pretty horrific situations of desperation for money. For all I know though, in Sweden it’s a joy ride. 

I am stopping me from being blissful at school lessons. That's pretty obvious that you cant be blissful there. 

The whole van thing has making money as the most difficult task. I need a minimum of 150$ a month and I dont want a secure job somewhere. I will have to make money on my own, otherwise I wouldn't be able to travel which I think the enlightened me will want. Now I have been focused every minute of my life in the last couple of weeks in developing skills to make money on my own. We had 1 week holiday right now and I haven't spent any freedom almost, not even half a day. Even me being here right now is not in alignment with what I must do. 

For me the van is only for sleep, a tent or other solution wouldn't be able to stop in parking lots. Shower at gyms or bathhouses, pooping there too. Peing in the wild or in van. Eating much raw food in the van but also cooked with electric cooktop. Washing clothes for hand or with mini electric washer. That's the essentials. 

The question is if im pushing my mind too far, my sleep quota has increased because I'm stretching the capacity and capability of my mind. I also don't allow myself high states of consciousness that much and often have a reverse ego backlash. Where I have used my mind beyond capability it gets difficult to use or withhold it any more therefore I get in states of blissfullness as a break from my mind. Not that I mind. School already takes up most of my day and to try to make something out of myself simultaneously gives no room for that much joy or bliss. I would love to just spend one day in ecstacy, but that luxury I never gave myself. I am very serious and dedicated now that I have awakened. Not that I know if I am doing the right thing. Ego is kind of difficult to keep up but as said, is needed for survival. 

[Villager Albert]

@Leo Nordin I support you man.  If you live in a warm climate with lots of fruits you can do it.  But the more your body suffers the more you will have to care about survival and the worse for your development. Check out Rob Greenfield, he's a living proof that you can survive comfortably with pretty much no money.

[Yarco]

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

I am stopping me from being blissful at school lessons. That's pretty obvious that you cant be blissful there. 

Enlightened people manage to be blissful in war zones, while starving, while undergoing religious persecution and torture. Doing it while sitting in a school in a first world country should be easy mode. You already said it, the one stopping you from being blissful is yourself. Not your surroundings.

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

I dont want a secure job

It seems like you are actively shunning the conditions that would give you a chance to be blissful. It doesn't have to be a corporate job. But even if you're running your own business, you want a secure income. It's not bliss-inducing to be constantly worrying about how you'll afford your next meal.

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

I will have to make money on my own, otherwise I wouldn't be able to travel which I think the enlightened me will want.

There is no enlightened YOU, that's the point. Want and desire don't come from enlightenment. That's ego.

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

Now I have been focused every minute of my life in the last couple of weeks in developing skills to make money on my own. We had 1 week holiday right now and I haven't spent any freedom almost, not even half a day. Even me being here right now is not in alignment with what I must do.

Obviously I can't prove it, but I call BS on this. Every minute has been productive for weeks? Yet you measure freedom in half-day increments? I would love to be a fly on the wall and track what you are doing in 15 minute segments to show you how much time you're really wasting without realizing it.

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

For me the van is only for sleep, a tent or other solution wouldn't be able to stop in parking lots. Shower at gyms or bathhouses, pooping there too. Peing in the wild or in van.

You think having to hold in a shit until you get to a gym is going to be less bliss-breaking than sitting in a classroom?

3 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

The question is if im pushing my mind too far, my sleep quota has increased because I'm stretching the capacity and capability of my mind.

That's literally the opposite of what I've heard from every enlightened person who has talked about sleep. Normally your demand goes way down. And again if you are enlightened there is no you stretching YOUR mind. There is just a mind doing stuff on autopilot.

Look, I know nobody is gonna be able to convince you otherwise. But as an objective observer, this is about the most clear example of zen devilry that I've ever seen.

[Leo Nordin]

@Villager Albert yes it's easy if I stay put in one city. But because I will travel I need a source of income to take with me. 

[Leo Nordin]

1 hour ago, Yarco said:

Enlightened people manage to be blissful in war zones, while starving, while undergoing religious persecution and torture. Doing it while sitting in a school in a first world country should be easy mode. You already said it, the one stopping you from being blissful is yourself. Not your surroundings.

It seems like you are actively shunning the conditions that would give you a chance to be blissful. It doesn't have to be a corporate job. But even if you're running your own business, you want a secure income. It's not bliss-inducing to be constantly worrying about how you'll afford your next meal.

There is no enlightened YOU, that's the point. Want and desire don't come from enlightenment. That's ego.

Obviously I can't prove it, but I call BS on this. Every minute has been productive for weeks? Yet you measure freedom in half-day increments? I would love to be a fly on the wall and track what you are doing in 15 minute segments to show you how much time you're really wasting without realizing it.

You think having to hold in a shit until you get to a gym is going to be less bliss-breaking than sitting in a classroom?

That's literally the opposite of what I've heard from every enlightened person who has talked about sleep. Normally your demand goes way down. And again if you are enlightened there is no you stretching YOUR mind. There is just a mind doing stuff on autopilot.

Look, I know nobody is gonna be able to convince you otherwise. But as an objective observer, this is about the most clear example of zen devilry that I've ever seen.

I agree with everything you say it's almost all correct. But there is a lot of misunderstanding between you and me. 

Its easy to be blissful all the time you just need to go in automode as you say. But in automode would i really study and listen to only what the teacher wants me to do? It's very easy yes but there is consequences to all what you do, karma. 

Worrying about income might be some of a problem. That's why I am trying to get the knowledge to make money on the go. This is why my sleep quota has gone up. First weeks after awakening my sleep quota did go down with 4h less each day and I was blissful for a lot of time. But I realised that I need to work hard now so that I don't need to later for my survival. That's why I am choosing not to go into automode and be blissful even if ecstasy is temting at times. Its the choice between Ego(my survival) and my highest self. You cannot be enlightened doing things for survival I don't believe. Have you heard the story of that man that agonised over eating food after enlightenment. He continued to eat even though it was difficult just because he never let that go. When he let that even go he became truly enlightened and went away. 

With "enlightened me" I mean me letting go of ego. I called it that because I am using ego right now. Everything that I desire in terms of how I experience life I can have but there is karma to every action you make. 

How productive I have been I don't know. You call bullshit on me but time fly by fast when you are engaged in something. There's so much to do and so little time to spare. My body/mind tells me when it needs a break but going beyond healthy amounts of ego, thought and learning. Thats why I need more sleep and it's not an effective way because it's not like I am doing the higher good for humanity or something either so I can not even closely compare to the capability of the mind when in high states of consciousness. The brakes I take from my ego is also productive because it's needed. 

I want to let go of ego I truly do. The deeper I go into ego the deeper and greater the anti ego backlash will be. Me writing here takes very precious time from me because I am so busy. 

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

I am stopping me from being blissful at school lessons. That's pretty obvious that you cant be blissful there. 

This might be obvious to you but it doesn’t make sense to me. 

[Leo Nordin]

31 minutes ago, Nahm said:

This might be obvious to you but it doesn’t make sense to me. 

If you saw a student laugh/smile and not do any work all lessons or any engagement what would you do as a teacher? 

There is no need for activity in when in high states of consciousness. If I were to be engaged I wouldn't be engaged in the lesson rather in that which will help everyone in their futures or spread joy or something like that. 

I would just disturb the lessons. And I certainly wouldn't get a passing grade or enough attendance if I get kicked out. 

You have done 20k posts?!? On here. Dam hahaha, isn't it obvious to the awakened mind? Nahm have you awakened yet? 

[Nahm]

13 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

If you saw a student laugh/smile and not do any work all lessons or any engagement what would you do as a teacher? 

There is no need for activity in when in high states of consciousness. If I were to be engaged I wouldn't be engaged in the lesson rather in that which will help everyone in their futures or spread joy or something like that. 

I would tell them to contemplate need vs want in hopes they recognize there are no states of consciousness. 

I would ask them for specific examples of the scenarios in which they will help everyone in their futures and spread joy. 

13 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

I would just disturb the lessons. And I certainly wouldn't get a passing grade or enough attendance if I get kicked out. 

Up to you. From another perspective, getting kicked out isn’t the cause of not getting the passing grade. 

13 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

You have done 20k posts?!? On here. Dam hahaha, isn't it obvious to the awakened mind? Nahm have you awakened yet? 

How does your inquiry relate to me? Are you implying that because I do not see things the same way as someone looking to resolve them, I must “not be as awake as you”? 

[Byun Sean]

@Leo Nordin

I can actually say that after my awakening happened, I could not go back to college because the only reason I was going to college was out of fear of not making a living later on, not out of love for my true passion.

Good luck to you brother. If you are truly awake as you say you are I'm sure you have one hell of a ride ahead of you.