How do i escape the trap of the mind?

[KaRzual]

Hey guys. After some experiences from the nearest past i think i got it. Or i got it at least partially. I've been trying to focus on what is and my feelings trying to feel in in the body. And what i can report is that is true. 

And what is definitely not true is mind's theories, self-talk and various kinds of judgements and anxious thought. As i move my attention for the mind to the body i realise - Fuck! That's all false! However i'm still here finding myself lost in those thougts and feeling angry, anxious and hopeless sometimes. 

Is there any way to quit it for good? To use the mind as a practical tool? To enjoy life how it is? 

I'm going to dedicate myself more to meditation as it seems to the best possible solution, however this is just crazy how it's easy to get lost in this pattern of feeling "stuck" inside the mind. 

And i got it that shrooms are so hard experience for me - the mind on powerful substance is just getting even bigger and stronger and i need a lot of attention and focus to be in the moment and not get lost in this crazy ass thing. 

[Moksha]

It sounds like you're on a good path. The key to escaping the mind is to recognize when it is tugging at your awareness, before it pulls you in. At first, you may discover you've been unconscious for several hours before awareness reasserts itself. That's ok. You will eventually catch it in the moment that it is happening, and develop the skill to maintain no-mind even in turbulence.

It is strange at first, an altered state of consciousness. I felt my mind fighting against it, a strong momentum to maintain the status quo. I am gradually becoming more astute at recognizing it but staying in stillness, without surrendering to the undercurrent of unconsciousness.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Moksha

[latch]

@KaRzual

Try to find a way that works for you to increase your serotonin so the feeling of well being is heightened and you brain can learn to stop trying solve the imaginary problem it believes is making you feel like something isn't right.

..but that's just a guess on my part..

[KaRzual]

@Moksha Exactly. It's horrific that i'm not conscious 95% of the day time. That's truly horrific. Keeping that consciousness is hard af but i'm trying my best. Do you also experience feeling more tired and needing to sleep more as you force yourself to be more consicous during the day?

@latch I don't really understand. The mind will always find something. ALWAYS. 

[Moksha]

3 minutes ago, KaRzual said:

@Moksha Exactly. It's horrific that i'm not conscious 95% of the day time. That's truly horrific. Keeping that consciousness is hard af but i'm trying my best. Do you also experience feeling more tired and needing to sleep more as you force yourself to be more consicous during the day?

The only thing worse than 95% unconsciousness for a day is 100% unconsciousness for a lifetime  Maybe we're not doing so bad after all.

From the Bhagavad Gita:

One person in many thousands may seek perfection, yet of these only a few reach the goal and come to realize me. (7:3)

It's all about the journey. To answer your question, yes I do find it draining sometimes to maintain presence in my life. Sometimes it's worse than draining; it can actually feel disorienting. I have found it necessary to apply moderation to my spiritual awakening.

The Greeks had it right: "Nothing in excess."

 

 

[latch]

@KaRzual I'm not saying that is a total solution but it should lower the neuroticism - your path to knowing yourself is life long. Don't give up- you're your own puzzle.

[Gesundheit]

There is no escaping the mind, and you cannot do anything about it.

The mind is not a trap. It's you. To deny yourself is the trap, but not really.

There are no traps. You'll get wherever you wanna get, or maybe not. But you'll die in the end anyways so it doesn't actually matter.

[Moksha]

36 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

There is no escaping the mind, and you cannot do anything about it.

The mind is not a trap. It's you. To deny yourself is the trap, but not really.

There are no traps. You'll get wherever you wanna get, or maybe not. But you'll die in the end anyways so it doesn't actually matter.

There is a difference between the conditioned mind and the unconditioned mind. It is possible to live in the present moment as awareness, free from the conditioned mind. When you do that, the mind becomes a tool. When you don't, you are a tool of the mind.

There is an intelligence in ultimate reality that is beyond the human mind. Laws are intelligent and have a purpose. They are deeper than the world of name and form, and they rule this world. They cannot be created or destroyed. This intelligence is the substance of ultimate reality.

Now forget all of that, and awaken to freedom from the conditioned mind

 

[Gesundheit]

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

There is a difference between the conditioned mind and the unconditioned mind. It is possible to live in the present moment as awareness, free from the conditioned mind. When you do that, the mind becomes a tool. When you don't, you are a tool of the mind.

I don't mind that.

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

There is an intelligence in ultimate reality that is beyond the human mind. Laws are intelligent and have a purpose. They are deeper than the world of name and form, and they rule this world. They cannot be created or destroyed. This intelligence is the substance of ultimate reality.

Meh.

8 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Now forget all of that, and awaken to freedom from the conditioned mind

Forgotten. And no, thanks.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't mind that.

As long as you don't mind your mind, there's no reason to change. Suffering is the ultimate fuel for growth. If you're not suffering right now, why would you seek enlightenment?

[Gesundheit]

14 minutes ago, Moksha said:

As long as you don't mind your mind, there's no reason to change. Suffering is the ultimate fuel for growth. If you're not suffering right now, why would you seek enlightenment?

Who? Me?

[Moksha]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Who? Me?

Anyone. The universe teaches us through suffering. It is how it becomes aware of itself. Maybe there are periods where people don't suffer, but some see those periods as darkness rather than light. We only suffer until we no longer need to suffer.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Moksha

[Member]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

There is an intelligence in ultimate reality that is beyond the human mind. Laws are intelligent and have a purpose. They are deeper than the world of name and form, and they rule this world. They cannot be created or destroyed. This intelligence is the substance of ultimate reality.

Now forget all of that, and awaken to freedom from the conditioned mind

"It is the apparent lack of the freedom and wilfulness associated with mind that accounts for the predictable laws of science. Where mind is insufficiently actualized, it shows no traces of free will. It simply obeys abstract mathematical laws as the path of least resistance, and these mathematical laws, in Nature, manifest themselves as the laws of science, which is why mathematics and science are so intimately connected. Just as an object will travel at a constant speed in straight line if not subjected to any force, so mind will move at its equivalent of constant speed and a straight line: it will behave mathematically. In mathematics, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line so an object will move in a straight line by default since why would it do anything different than that? To do something other than the default would require some form of higher thought and decision-making. At the core level of Nature, these qualities do not exist in a meaningful sense, so the path of least resistance is always followed. The laws of science are the expression of the lowest levels of mind obeying the simplest laws of mathematics. Hence, they are extremely reliable and predictable. As mind grows increasingly complex, it no longer obeys default positions. By the time mind reaches the level of human consciousness, it is wilful and free, no longer constrained by simple deterministic laws." - Hegel: The Man Who Would Be God

[Moksha]

@Member Nice  Laws exist, but they are hierarchical. Unmanifested Laws > Relative Laws > Deterministic Laws.

[Breakingthewall]

Is really difficult to the mind accept that by definition, all his concepts are false. Over all is one concept that the mind is unable to catch: infinity. If you realize the infinity , the mind is going to loose a big part of his dominium. I ve been trying to escape of the mind dominium many years and I never got any progress. I got more calm, more mature, etc...but in real spirituality, zero. The only way that had worked for me is to do 5 meo dmt. To Do It literally break your mind and send you to the infinity. Maybe you do and you don't realize how important change was happened in you, but a hole in your mind ve been created and that hole is a window to the infinity. When your mind is fronted with the infinity, became humble

Edited October 3, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[Nahm]

On 10/2/2020 at 2:31 PM, KaRzual said:

However i'm still here finding myself lost in those thougts and feeling angry, anxious and hopeless sometimes. 

Yesterday I was playing with my kids, and I asked them what it was like when they were born. They both drew a blank. I asked if they’d ever thought about how weird it is that they don’t remember being born, as in, there’s a ‘gap’ as to their own ‘beginning’. They did think this was weird. I pointed out, how when they were born, having no idea what’s going on in this place, we take care of them while they’re learning the place and figuring things out. Then I explained, that mom and dad are in that same boat, that we too were born with no clue of what the hell is really going on...and that everyone here was born into here and also doesn’t remember how they actually got here, so literally no one on the planet really knows what the hell is going on at all. But, there’s no ‘stop’ or ‘pause’ nor ‘rewind’ button, so we’re all just in ‘play’ mode and figuring stuff out together as we go. They thought this was hysterical for some reason. 

I mentioned that it’s really important, no matter what they face, to keep an open mind that we all chose this. Knowing we will not know a damn thing, be totally vulnerable, and that it’s a total crap shoot ‘who’ you’re gonna be, entirely random, and completely unfair, still, we all chose this. My son (10) said “that doesn’t sound legit. If I chose, I’d have picked to be the fastest kid in my class”. My daughter (9) went into a deep contemplative / staring into the wall state. Then she told her brother “it’s because who we really are is love. From love’s perspective, love just loves you whoever you are. Love don’t really care if you’re the fastest or not”.

 

Through meditation, and expression, you’ll discover anger, anxiety, and hopelessness, are all literally love, being labeled. If you label feeling, you are ‘thinking feeling’, which is not actually possible. If you don’t label feeling, and just, feel, all the labels are coming up and out. Many, we’re identified with, even though they didn’t feel good. They’re not gonna feel great coming up & out either, but you will feel amazing lasting relief after they do. The key, is not ‘falling’ for the ‘thought story’, (which you were kicking ass on btw)....until you fell for the thought story about getting lost in thoughts and feeling being anger, anxiety, and hopelessness. Those are thinking, perspectives, labels upon feeling - and we can not think feeling. By labelling, you create distinctions & define the experience, and ‘separate yourself’ from feeling. By believing the thought story, the feeling is suppressed a little bit. That suppressed feeling keeps the mind ruminating, as it has to keep up with all the labelling. It’s a lot to keep track of, a lot of effort & energy. 

Express feeling. Be a partner in the up & out of it. Write, draw, paint, sing, carve, ...anything you like. Expression is healing. A flower doesn’t label itself in anyway, it just blooms, and the flower does not suffer. It is in no way against itself, and it has no purpose, it is just beautiful for no one. 

Imo, you should be incredibly excited about the path. You will inevitably self realize, and know unequivocally that there is no randomness to who you are, that it is completely fair, and that you’d choose it again and again. 

The ‘traps of the mind’ are all arising from you, without exception. You learned em from this place innocently. How else could it be? Infinite can not know finite. Also, you don’t have to keep believing them, and as you don’t, feeling cleans you right out proper.   Rather than there being something to escape, there is awareness creating, was all along...and you’re already making this place better, counterintuitively, just from letting go of what does not resonate with you. (It’s likely not going to resonate for the next ‘forgetter’ either).

From what you said about mushrooms....I’d relabel them ‘letting go medicine’. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

Keep going, stay curious.

[Charlotte]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Yesterday I was playing with my kids, and I asked them what it was like when they were born. They both drew a blank. I asked if they’d ever thought about how weird it is that they don’t remember being born, as in, there’s a ‘gap’ as to their own ‘beginning’. They did think this was weird. I pointed out, how when they were born, having no idea what’s going on in this place, we take care of them while they’re learning the place and figuring things out. Then I explained, that mom and dad are in that same boat, that we too were born with no clue of what the hell is really going on...and that everyone here was born into here and also doesn’t remember how they actually got here, so literally no one on the planet really knows what the hell is going on at all. But, there’s no ‘stop’ or ‘pause’ nor ‘rewind’ button, so we’re all just in ‘play’ mode and figuring stuff out together as we go. They thought this was hysterical for some reason. 

I mentioned that it’s really important, no matter what they face, to keep an open mind that we all chose this. Knowing we will not know a damn thing, be totally vulnerable, and that it’s a total crap shoot ‘who’ you’re gonna be, entirely random, and completely unfair, still, we all chose this. My son (10) said “that doesn’t sound legit. If I chose, I’d have picked to be the fastest kid in my class”. My daughter (9) went into a deep contemplative / staring into the wall state. Then she told her brother “it’s because who we really are is love. From love’s perspective, love just loves you whoever you are. Love don’t really care if you’re the fastest or not”.

 

Through meditation, and expression, you’ll discover anger, anxiety, and hopelessness, are all literally love, being labeled. If you label feeling, you are ‘thinking feeling’, which is not actually possible. If you don’t label feeling, and just, feel, all the labels are coming up and out. Many were identified with, even though they didn’t feel good. They’re not gonna feel great coming up & out either, but you will feel amazing lasting relief after they do. The key, is not ‘falling’ for the ‘thought story’, which you were kicking ass on....until you fell for the thought story about getting lost in thoughts and feeling being anger, anxiety, and hopelessness. Those are thinking, perspectives, labels upon feeling - and we can not think feeling. By labelling, you create distinctions & define the experience, and ‘separate yourself’ from feeling. By believing the thought story, the feeling is suppressed a little bit. That suppressed feeling keeps the mind ruminating, as it has to keep up with all the labelling. It’s a lot to keep track of.  

Express feeling. Be a partner in the up & out of it. Write, draw, paint, sing, carve, ...anything you like. Expression is healing. A flower doesn’t label itself in anyway, it just blooms, and the flower does not suffer. It is in no way against itself, and it has no purpose, it is just beautiful for no one. 

Imo, you should be incredibly excited about the path. You will inevitably self realize, and know unequivocally that there is no randomness to who you are, that it is completely fair, and that you’d choose it again and again. 

The ‘traps of the mind’ are all arising from you, without exception. You learned em from this place innocently. How else could it be? Infinite can not know finite. Also, you don’t have to keep believing them, and as you don’t, feeling cleans you right out proper.   Rather than there being something to escape, there is awareness creating, was all along...and you’re already making this place better, counterintuitively, just from letting go of what does not resonate with you. (It’s likely not going to resonate for the next ‘forgetter’ either).

From what you said about mushrooms....I’d relabel them ‘letting go medicine’. 

 

This ♥️?

[Shin]

The thing to understand is that the very thing that want to not feel lost is what you are trying to get rid of currently.
In other words you're trying to escape yourself by fighting yourself.

"No I don't want to be unconscious, I hate those unconscious thoughts"

It's like the dogs you see chasing their tail thinking that at some point they will be able to catch this weird prey

 

What you want to do, is to be conscious of what is happening right now, whatever it is.

I like the metaphor Sadhguru uses sometimes "If you are in the traffic, it is very annoying, very stressing (you being lost in your mind), but if you are in a balloon in the sky watching the traffic, the traffic is very peaceful, even beautiful (the real you being conscious of what's happening)"

Practically speaking, you just keep observing your thoughts and emotions, as the "watcher" (not just when you sit to meditate though).
At some point it will be effortless.

How much time that can take is different for each person, you gotta just persist

[The0Self]

If you understand anything, there will arise the need to understand more, as well as the need to make what is into what it is already — plainly a contradiction. You never know you’re enlightened. No individual is ever enlightened. There is only this: apparent happening, understood or known by no one. As soon as a knowing of this apparent happening apparently happens, a dream individual seems to be separate from what it seems to know. It quite literally never happens. Separation is not real. There’s just absolute unknowable freedom energy (or whatever you want to call what-is) appearing as everything. But it’s only an appearance.

Wave your hand: there’s an apparent movement, but nobody knows that actually happened. However, the individual lives in an illusory dream world of knowing — it doesn’t actually know though, it only apparently seems to — it doesn’t actually exist.