What would a healthy Conservative political party look like?

[DocWatts]

This is a question that's come up as I've pondered on the peculiarities of the American two party political system. While corruption is endemic in the system with both parties complicit to varying degrees, the Republican Party has been rotting from within for several decades now, to the point where it has to use Authoritarian tactics to win elections because it has literally nothing of value to offer for the vast majority of ordinary people.

With that as my frame of reference, I'm genuinely curious as to what a more reasonable and relatively healthy Conservative political party would look like in a functional Democracy. With as big and diverse of a country as America is, I've long since made peace with the fact that Conservative political parties are a legitimate part of a representative system; so if they are going to exist, I would much rather they be a relatively healthy form of conservatism and not antithetical to democratic norms and institutions.

[No Self]

Not using taxpayer money to prop up the fossil fuel industries would be a good start. In a broader sense, downsizing the government via fighting waste and corruption, rather than attacking programs that benefit the lower classes whilst being complicit in military and other excesses. 

[Parththakkar12]

@DocWatts A healthy conservative party would be:

• One that accepts that the only constant is change. They wouldn't have this defeatist attitude towards change, they would be on the side of progressives when it comes to creating change.
• They would have healthy skepticism and cynicism relative to progressive ideas. They would be the anchor to ground progressives in reality, so that they don't wander off into some idealistic utopia.
• They would not let their skepticism and cynicism to turn into defeatism.
• They would admit that a mature progressive has a good idea for creating change when they do. This keeps them within the boundaries of their role and intellectually honest.
• Although their role would be to preserve the status-quo, they don't get identified with preserving the status-quo. They don't get identified with 'realism' or 'pragmatism'. They see the reality that when it comes to creating a healthy and functional world, the sky is the limit. The status-quo is not the best possible thing.

Let's not downplay the importance of preserving the status-quo. If your change does not work, if you try something and it fails, you do need something to fall back on. In such a situation, if you don't have a status-quo to fall back on, you will collapse. So it is important to preserve the status-quo and this is the role conservatives would play. All they need to do is to stop identifying with this role and with the status-quo.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[DocWatts]

2 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Let's not downplay the importance of preserving the status-quo. If your change does not work, if you try something and it fails, you do need something to fall back on. In such a situation, if you don't have a status-quo to fall back on, you will collapse. So it is important to preserve the status-quo and this is the role conservatives would play. All they need to do is to stop identifying with this role and with the status-quo.

That's quite insightful, and probably one of the better arguments as to how Conservatives can serve a useful and necessary role (as opposed to just holding society back, as it can appear sometimes).

Actually these are all great points, and it's really unfortunate that there's not a viable non-destructive political party which represents these values in the US.

The way things stand, with the Republican party appealing primarily to wealthy people and whites that harbor some sort of racial resentment, I don't see how it will be able to win elections as demographic changes render thier voting base smaller and smaller. Hopefully something better can eventually take its place, and it won't have to rely on Voter Suppression to win elections for it to be able to push an unpopular agenda on the country. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by DocWatts

[sholomar]

As a moderate I see the opposite.. I see democrats cheating with mail in ballots and voter harvesting, condoning these riots and violence, censoring moderate and conservative views within the media (I believe in total freedom of speech... let people make up their own minds) ... an ideal democrat party would be what they wish to see in others, rather than this tactic of dividing people up into groups and getting them to play the victim card.  I see them promoting a welfare state and giving people fish rather than teaching them to fish.   I see a lot of "neuroticism" among the left that is brought on by their own thinking.  I get it, stage green types think they are right and will attack orange and blue... I do get it.. this is why it's important to have a stage yellow president that has mastered their emotions more and is more moderate and not the radical left that gets so much media attention.  We need a diplomat as president.. someone who can see both side's points of view and come to a consensus. Obviously that is not Trump, but I'm kind of disappointed with the democrat party lately.. they are letting Trump troll them basically. They can't see it's all a game to him to get them to react... but I suppose it takes some level of stage yellow to see this.

It be nice if we had "honest politicians" who believed the end didn't justify the means. 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by sholomar

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, sholomar said:

As a moderate I see the opposite.. I see democrats cheating with mail in ballots and voter harvesting, condoning these riots and violence, censoring moderate and conservative views within the media (I believe in total freedom of speech... let people make up their own minds) ... an ideal democrat party would be what they wish to see in others, rather than this tactic of dividing people up into groups and getting them to play the victim card.  I see them promoting a welfare state and giving people fish rather than teaching them to fish.   I see a lot of "neuroticism" among the left that is brought on by their own thinking.  I get it, stage green types think they are right and will attack orange and blue... I do get it.. this is why it's important to have a stage yellow president that has mastered their emotions more and is more moderate and not the radical left that gets so much media attention.  We need a diplomat as president.. someone who can see both side's points of view and come to a consensus. Obviously that is not Trump. 

Are there people like Soros paying groups like Antifa to cause disorder? That's a very dangerous game to be playing if true. The ends don't justify the means. 

 

No offense, but these are all Conservative rather than Moderate talking points. 

Whole point of the post though is that we would want a healthy political party to represent Conservatives, just like we would want a healthy political party for Progressives. The endemic corruption of Trump (though not limited to him) isn't good for anyone.

I'm also happy to give due credit to Republicans who've been willing to stand up to Trump, rare as they may be (Romney marching to protest police brutality and racism comes to mind). We need more politicians with Integrity on all sides.

Edited October 2, 2020 by DocWatts

[Preety_India]

 

I don't have a specific layout but my proforma of how a conversative party, a healthier one willl be like - 

- they balance out the ridiculous things on the far left side 

- they check system for corruption and systemic racism 

- they have a middle ground of agreement with the left and work with the left for a peaceful outcome on policy. 

- they take care of someone like Antifa and other militia groups 

- they respond logically to useless virtue signaling. 

- they take care of the excesses on the left. 

- they hold the left accountable when it goes too far. Like fake information spreading  propaganda by media. 

- they take everyone's concerns into consideration regardless of majority or race. They accommodate everyone's concerns. 

-they don't support white supremacist groups or such ethos. 

- they are able to handle progression and change in society rather than being dogmatically orthodox. 

- they understand that the overall outcome is more important than holding onto the status quo. 

-they don't play bipartisan politics and stall issues, instead focus on issues to find a strong outcome suited to most. 

 

These are just some haphazard points I came up with, sorry my brain is a bit foggy right now. 

 

[Thewritersunion]

If they were healthy you’d have a one party state. Be careful what you wish for. 

[DocWatts]

23 minutes ago, Thewritersunion said:

If they were healthy you’d have a one party state. Be careful what you wish for. 

By healthy I mean that they should be able to exist in a pluralistic political system in a non-destructive way; 'successful' authoritarianism of the kind you mention would be antithetical to this.

Fact of the matter is that Conservatives are going to exist in most societies, so how does a democracy integrate thier political interests in a way that's fair while also not being damaging to everyone else in the society (as I'd argue the Republican party has become damaged over the last several decades, as an instrument for the corrupt to loot the rest of the society).

And as long as Conservative parties are going to exist, wouldn't it be better for everyone if it were version of Conservatism that is able integrate in a healthy way with the rest of society? I wonder if part of the problem we're seeing is that Conservatives don't really have any version of this to latch on to in America.

Edited October 2, 2020 by DocWatts

[Danioover9000]

@louhad

2 hours ago, louhad said:

By definition conservatives are incapable of doing this

 

Thoughts on Bernie Sanders? 

   By definition, the conservative position seeks to conserve the whole or parts of society. However, conservative parties are as diverse as the cultures and societies they're in, so if we say that conservatives in the USA are unhealthy, and that's all we know so far, American conservatives, we might make a mistake without realizing that some other first, second or third world country's conservative party is way more corrupt in comparison.

   Also, people and ideas evolve over time. Look at liberalism, it used to be liberalism, but lately the idea/people evolved to include liberal democratism and neoliberalism. Same with Advaita Vedanta, which part of it splintered off and evolved to neo-Advaita Vedanta, the first conceptual frame work for non-duality, for the casual spirit seekers. Unfortunately, all this invalidates your definition of conservatives being incapable of evolving to healthier forms of conservativism.