Some Spirial Dynamics Advise

[RichnNL]

Thanks Leo for introducing us to the 9 Stages of Ego theory. It really helped me in a way understand Spiral Dynamics better please correct me if I am wrong. But my advice when using spiral dynamics is not to directly apply it to the individual. So this is for anyone who was falling in the same trap as I was. Even though it is even stated  that Spiral Dynamics is for a culture and not the individual I still made that mistake. For example I was really confused with Hippies as many Hippies in my perception just repeat things they have heard for example one love or diversity but have no understanding of systems and simply repeat things like one love as a stage blue person does a quote from their religious text. 

It is better to think of stage green person as a person who is OF a stage  green culture and that why they believe, and say the things they do etc but could not really understand what they are doing. And for the higher stages, because their exist no society of the higher stages you can say they live in their own stage yellow or turquoise world or their inner world is at that stage or maybe it is only applicable to the first tier stages? The Ego Stage development theory I think is a  much better model for assessing yourself or the  individual what do you guys think?

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, RichnNL said:

But my advice when using spiral dynamics is not to directly apply it to the individual.

You can and should certainly apply it at the individual level. It is a measure of individual development, not merely culture.

3 hours ago, RichnNL said:

or example I was really confused with Hippies as many Hippies in my perception just repeat things they have heard for example one love or diversity but have no understanding of systems

You lack understanding of hippies. Many hippies are more advanced than people think. You should distinguish true hippies vs those who merely parrot hippie ideals and values. Hippie values and stereotypes are rampant in pop culture, but very few people are able to actually embody that.

Stage Green is very deep. It will take you a decade of work to understand and embody it.

Stage Green is not supposed to understand systems. That is Yellow.

Consider the possibility that it will take you 15 years of work just to get to the level of a solid hippie.

The problem is that your understanding of SD is still just surface level. You'll need a lot more experience to fully understand it. Keep practicing and stay humble.

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, RichnNL said:

. And for the higher stages, because their exist no society of the higher stages you can say they live in their own stage yellow or turquoise world or their inner world is at that stage or maybe it is only applicable to the first tier stages?

I was always seeing a clear pattern of construction-deconstruction, so I find this hypothesis about lack of specimen to create society somewhat unlikely. Deconstruction starts at Green/Pluralist.

[RichnNL]

2 hours ago, neutralempty said:

"The Ego Stage development theory I think is a  much better model for assessing yourself or the  individual what do you guys think?"

I think so, too.

Check out Ken Wilber's Integral Psychology.

thanks will do

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You can and should certainly apply it at the individual level. It is a measure of individual development, not merely culture.

You lack understanding of hippies. Many hippies are more advanced than people think. You should distinguish true hippies vs those who merely parrot hippie ideals and values. Hippie values and stereotypes are rampant in pop culture, but very few people are able to actually embody that.

Stage Green is very deep. It will take you a decade of work to understand and embody it.

Stage Green is not supposed to understand systems. That is Yellow.

Consider the possibility that it will take you 15 years of work just to get to the level of a solid hippie.

The problem is that your understanding of SD is still just surface level. You'll need a lot more experience to fully understand it. Keep practicing and stay humble.

That is a big possibility maybe I am confusing the stereotypes, just with people I know in my bubble who I suppose society would label as hippies do not fit the stage green that well as they do not embody it. But nobody fits perfectly into 1 specific colour.

I still am studying Spiral Dynamics I'll keep at it thank you! 

[DocWatts]

Also the ability deconstruct ideas and concepts, as well of an awareness of Social Constructs generally begin at Green; both of which are necessary for an understanding of the Systems Thinking that Yellow employs.

[ROOBIO]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can and should certainly apply it at the individual level. It is a measure of individual development, not merely culture.

You lack understanding of hippies. Many hippies are more advanced than people think. You should distinguish true hippies vs those who merely parrot hippie ideals and values. Hippie values and stereotypes are rampant in pop culture, but very few people are able to actually embody that.

Stage Green is very deep. It will take you a decade of work to understand and embody it.

Stage Green is not supposed to understand systems. That is Yellow.

Consider the possibility that it will take you 15 years of work just to get to the level of a solid hippie.

The problem is that your understanding of SD is still just surface level. You'll need a lot more experience to fully understand it. Keep practicing and stay humble.

Well have you become a hippy? It seems you went from orange straight to yellow

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, ROOBIO said:

Well have you become a hippy? It seems you went from orange straight to yellow

The dude has taken more psychedelics than the entire San Francisco bay combined. What more do you need to know?  

[RichnNL]

 

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The dude has taken more psychedelics than the entire San Francisco bay combined. What more do you need to know?  

haha , would you say it is it easier for someone who went from orange to green to yellow to go through green, faster than someone who was born into green? As they have already experienced going through a stage?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, neutralempty said:

@RichnNL What do you mean by born into Green?

Came out of the womb smelling like weed, drank kombucha instead of mother's milk, ate so much soy he looks like a Japanese male idol.

[herghly]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Come out of the womb smelling like weed, drank kombucha instead of mother's milk, ate so much soy he looks like a Japanese male idol.

lol that is gold

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, RichnNL said:

 

haha , would you say it is it easier for someone who went from orange to green to yellow to go through green, faster than someone who was born into green? As they have already experienced going through a stage?

I don't understand the question.

[RichnNL]

On 02/10/2020 at 1:53 PM, Carl-Richard said:

I don't understand the question.

I mean someone who was raised in a Green setting so let's say someone who grew up with liberal family and friends where values of love, diversity peace etc were just the norm. As opposed to an orange person someone who grew up in an orange environment got wealthy moved into green through exhausting their success in orange. 

Which of these two types do you think would be able to move to yellow with less difficulty?

On 02/10/2020 at 10:01 AM, Leo Gura said:

Came out of the womb smelling like weed, drank kombucha instead of mother's milk, ate so much soy he looks like a Japanese male idol.

haha love it

[RichnNL]

@neutralempty thanks!

[Nivsch]

19 hours ago, RichnNL said:

I mean someone who was raised in a Green setting so let's say someone who grew up with liberal family and friends where values of love, diversity peace etc were just the norm.

You can't absorb a stage, you have to build the ability to think like green on your own.

You will always need to exhaust orange in the neurological level. no matter in what exact form or costume it will be seen from outside (competitions, bussiness, hard work etc).

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nivsch

[RichnNL]

@Nivsch

Ok, how could you explain to me then how for example Iam sterotyping here but someone with hippy parents who also turns out to be a hippy and really does believe in green values has been through orange. 

I personally know many people who embody green values but are downright lazy and have never been through stage orange or maybe when they were extremely young that could be a possibility. But throughout there adult life to me its seems like they were born into green of course not 100% green and will probably remain there until they die.

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, RichnNL said:

seems like they were born into green

Maybe they really believe in stage green content but in a BLUE way (their real stage is blue) in a communistic and very tough and non-flexible way.

2 hours ago, RichnNL said:

someone with hippy parents who also turns out to be a hippy and really does believe in green values has been through orange

He was, but it has shown in a different way like trying to be the best in school games for example or get good grades. OR that he is blue.

Also one don't have to exhuast stage orange as a whole. He can conquer 25% of orange and from them learn lessons and grow 7% of green, then get more 20% of orange and from there get 9% more of green.

And then 4% orange >> 0.5% green

7% orange >> 1.5% green >> 0.25% yellow.

 That's how developing really happens.

In brackets we have to remember that this is a model therefore not perfect and may not fit perfectly for everyone, the reality is wider and its better to try to make conclusion from outside the model and only after that think also about it, but its a hard skill to develop and takes time. I hope I will be able to do it well in the future.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

55 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

@Nivsch

I don't know, I believe the weakness of spiral dynamics is its stiffness, which I believe doesn't work that strict for people. Although maybe I just lack understanding of all the different dimensions SD has.

I think its only seen like that if you think that every stage has its strict story but its not true.

Its a structure based model. Not content. Its HOW you think and not what you think.

If your are a teenager and you adore a pop star - its stage blue. Conformism.

You dont have to be religious at all.

It can own 100 forms, as long as it has the right stracture of the stage.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nivsch

[RichnNL]

@neutralempty

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Maybe they really believe in stage green content but in a BLUE way (their real stage is blue) in a communistic and very tough and non-flexible way.

He was, but it has shown in a different way like trying to be the best in school games for example or get good grades. OR that he is blue.

Also one don't have to exhuast stage orange as a whole. He can conquer 25% of orange and from them learn lessons and grow 7% of green, then get more 20% of orange and from there get 9% more of green.

And then 4% orange >> 0.5% green

7% orange >> 1.5% green >> 0.25% yellow.

 That's how developing really happens.

In brackets we have to remember that this is a model therefore not perfect and may not fit perfectly for everyone, the reality is wider and its better to try to make conclusion from outside the model and only after that think also about it, but its a hard skill to develop and takes time. I hope I will be able to do it well in the future.

Well put that is kind of what I am seeing as well. Where some people who seem "green" do uphold green values but in a very blue way. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by RichnNL