Leo and everyone, have ALL your existential questions been answered?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

there is only one Self-realization, which is the experience of yourself as consciousness in the present moment.

There is Absolute Infinite Consciousness. A state in which the Universe telepathically interconnects with every corner of itself in infinite directions and infinite dimensions to realize itself fully and totally as precisely what it is: LOVE

Simply a dot of INFINITE LOVE. Completely, 100% self-aware. Not a single aspect of itself hidden from itself.

[Moksha]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is Absolute Infinite Consciousness. A state in which the Universe telepathically interconnects with every corner of itself in infinite directions and infinite dimensions to realize itself fully and totally as precisely what it is: LOVE

Simply a dot of INFINITE LOVE. Completely, 100% self-aware.

That is a beautiful way of describing it, and yes, that is how is feels. I experience it daily, but am far from being in a constant state of presence. It is always there, but the limitations of my little self often keep me from Being. I suppose that is why the masters describe the enlightenment process as a path.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Moksha

[Leo Gura]

@Moksha Namaste motherfucker

[Persipnei]

15 minutes ago, Moksha said:

As I see it, there is only one Self-realization, which is the experience of yourself as consciousness in the present moment. It is abundant, healing, and beautiful, and it is completely nonconceptual.

There is a multitude of self-realizations as well. In the course of practicing presence, I've become aware of the many ways my ego tries to lure me back into the labyrinth of my conditioned mind. I recognize the warning signs more quickly, and am getting better at catching myself before being sucked back into unconsciousness. But it happens far more than I wish were the case. I'm learning patience  It is a progressive journey of enlightenment; there is joy in it, and my life is already so much better than it used to be.

Guess I'm still fooling around with the little ones... I'm kinda blessed I guess, as an Asperger that my ego is easier to define, but that doesn't stop me going down the ego train time after time when I'm not aware. But hey, every moment is a new opportunity, right?

[Moksha]

@Leo Gura 

[PopoyeSailor]

20 hours ago, Moksha said:

We can't experience anything without a brain. When our brain stops functioning, our awareness presumably stops as well.

Not true. Try to contemplate this: 

Imagine If you are able to touch, see, smell or even taste your brain while it is functioning. If you look at the chemical and electrical firings  that are corresponding with your current experience(You perceiving your brain) Those chemical reactions and electrical firing themselves are being perceived right? 

Even if you are to believe that those electrical firing somehow with certain combination are creating the experience of a perceivership(Individual mind), you still cannot deny the fact that the world is perceived/experienced differently by different creatures/minds. 

If that is so, then your perception of your brain is simply a projection of some reality which for you is appearing as a brain and its electrical firings. Other creatures may not perceive it the same way as we do. 

So, there is some higher subtle reality when it projects itself in the physical world, appears to us as physical(Even in physical, it doesn't appear the same to every conscious creature - So, no real objective reality as such.). Similarly, the same reality even after the death of the body still keeps projecting itself in its subtle way which is still perceived and experienced by the subtle mind(Individuated self). As long as physicality continues, brain is necessary. But, when physicality is shed, no need for a brain. But still, the experience continues in the subtle form. This subtle individuated form is what reincarnates again and again until it dissolves through enlightenment.

As hinted above, even the so called physical is just an imaginary projection. In dream also we believe that the brain of the dream character is causing the dreamed experience which is felt as real.  But, after waking up, we see that the so called brain of the dreamer itself is a dreamed object. Just like those dreams, even the current experience in the wakeful state is also a dreamed reality from the perspective of the absolute reality. 

So called brain is just an imaginary projection of the  infinite consciousness or Awareness or otherwise called as Tao / Brahman and that Brahman is yourself and everything else while still being nothing at the same time.

Edited October 5, 2020 by PopoyeSailor

[Moksha]

@Persipnei Simply being aware of the ego train, rather than a perpetual passenger, is a good first step

@PopoyeSailor Ahoy! Perception is possible because of the electrical firing of our neurons as our sense receptors provide information to our brains. Without that electrical activity, we would no longer perceive anything.

Perception is not reality. It is our brain's attempt to map reality and make sense of it. Your green could be my red. That doesn't prove there is no reality, only that we are incapable of objectively perceiving it.

The room you are sitting in is not real. The moment you leave it, the room ceases to exist. Yes, there are molecules floating around, but it only becomes a room when your mind makes it that. "Room" is a concept of the mind; it is not objective reality.

The perennial question: If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The answer to this question depends on the definition of sound. Since sound does not exist without our hearing of it, sound does not exist if we do not hear it. However, when a tree falls, the motion disturbs the air and sends off air waves. This physical phenomenon which can be measured by instruments other than our ears exists regardless of human perception (seeing or hearing ) of it. Putting together, although the tree falling on the island sends off air waves, it does not produce sound if no human is within the distance where the air waves are strong enough for a human to perceive them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest#:~:text="If a tree falls in,questions regarding observation and perception.

[Adamq8]

@Moksha Perhaps you are right or perhaps you are wrong, so the brain is also a concept of the mind aswell, if the brain renders all of your reality and gives things solid form and so forth, that includes that when you are looking at your brain and it is doing it's firing it is also a construction of the MIND and is also a perception. So the brain might as well be formless but appears to be solid when you are studying it. 

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, neutralempty said:

@The0Self There is a labyrinth of ever increasing answers.

No actual disagreement here, but if they’re ever-increasing, they’re apparent answers, but also apparent questions. Not actual answers. Who would exist to know the answer? The questioner isn’t real. I guess you could say there are answers, but they’re outside the purview of enlightenment, and squarely in the realm of consciousness — which is wonderful!

[Moksha]

@Adamq8 The brain maps reality, but it is only a map. This includes the brain trying to map itself (aka metacognition).

We can slice someone's head open and observe the brain. We can test how it functions. We can even electrically stimulate different sections of the brain to manipulate emotions and perceptions. But our observations are only that. 

It is impossible for the brain to directly experience objective reality. Remove the brain, and that person's perception stops.

If there is an ultimate intelligence that exists beyond the brain, we cannot conceive it. We can experience it through Being, but whether that experience is a product of the brain or a reflection of ultimate reality is impossible to definitively determine.

[PopoyeSailor]

Most of what you said I agree with. Except for this point:

13 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Ahoy! Perception is possible because of the electrical firing of our neurons as our sense receptors provide information to our brains. Without that electrical activity, we would no longer perceive anything.

It is true that the neurons fire with correspondence to our experience. But, even without the neurons and physical body, perception of varied realities still continues in a subtle way too. The individuation does not end with the physical form. Individuation itself is far more deeper than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosha

Individuation consists of:

Annamaya kosha
Pranamaya kosha
Manomaya kosha
Vijñānamaya kosha
Anandamaya kosha

Only Annamaya(Food based physicality) is what dies when body dies. Still the other sheaths of individuation continue with perceptions still alive. 

[Adamq8]

@Moksha Conciousness maps reality and IS reality thats the insight i got from my direct experience. i was also on your side of the coin before i had the most profound experience ever, and yes it was on psychedelics, but it became so obvious that being is all there is, and all you know of this reality just dissapeared, all concepts, and even spirituality and all else was imaginary, my parents was imaginary, everything was imaginary , being is all there is , atleast of what is TRUE. And being is conciousness, conciousness is shape shifting and in my experience prior to all perceptions and appearences and you got insights into what you really are, and this "knowingness" was always there just clouded. 

I think the "brain" is just an appearence of conciousness and conciousness is formless, it became obvious that all the solid reality and form and concepts is to keep you feeling this is solid reality, but newsflash it is not. 

but perhaps it was just the brain doing it  

[Adamq8]

But i would say that the brain is imagination what you are is not a brain, a Pink squishy substance that is all there is and creating our reality and perceptions. With deep awakening it becomes clear that the brain is a hallucination within conciousness. 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, PopoyeSailor said:

Most of what you said I agree with. Except for this point:

It is true that the neurons fire with correspondence to our experience. But, even without the neurons and physical body, perception of varied realities still continues in a subtle way too. The individuation does not end with the physical form. Individuation itself is far more deeper than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosha

Individuation consists of:

Annamaya kosha
Pranamaya kosha
Manomaya kosha
Vijñānamaya kosha
Anandamaya kosha

Only Annamaya(Food based physicality) is what dies when body dies. Still the other sheaths of individuation continue with perceptions still alive. 

Thank you for sharing the link. If you read through it, the first four sheaths are all tied to the physical body since they require the five sense organs to be active. Only the final sheath, Anandamaya, doesn't reference the senses.

But this is only one of many perspectives on ultimate reality. I resonate with eastern philosophy, but I recognize it as such. There is no objective evidence for its claims. For example, I see no reliable evidence for reincarnation.

[Carl-Richard]

22 hours ago, Moksha said:

We can't experience anything without a brain.

You can't have any brains without experience.

 

22 hours ago, Moksha said:

When our brain stops functioning, our awareness presumably stops as well

In order to know when the brain stops functioning, you need experience.

[Moksha]

@Adamq8 What you describe is how I feel when I am most present; experience as pure consciousness. 

But as you say, maybe it is just the brain doing it. We really can't prove either way. One of the early theories of human consciousness (which Aldous Huxley espoused) was the idea that the brain protects itself by acting as a a reducing valve that restricts consciousness. He experimented with mescaline as a way to get past that restriction and achieve greater awareness.

Maybe we only use a small percentage of our brain, with most of the horsepower purring unconsciously under the hood. What is hidden there, and how do we awaken it? Maybe the reason it is hidden in the first place is because most of us are incapable of processing reality fully. I have a theory that evolution produced the beautiful hardware of the human brain, and we are only now beginning to upgrade our software to take full advantage of it. I see the next step in human evolution as the capacity to more consciously process reality.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Moksha

[Moksha]

@Carl-Richard We can observe the brain stopping in others. In a limited sense, we can even observe the brain stopping in ourselves. But it is not the entire brain stopping, just the conditioned part.

I am fairly confident that nobody has observed the complete stopping of their brains, at least not reliably or replicably. That said, I recommend Return from Tomorrow by George Ritchie as a fascinating dive into that possibility.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Moksha

[Nahm]

@Moksha

The ‘point’ (if you will) is this experience. All else is secondary and apparent, serving that there is, experience, including “a brain”. It’s a blatant all encompassing cover up. Consider the odds of this moment as it is in eternity, or even ‘since the big bang’. What are the chances man is the size between an atom & the earth? There are no odds or chances of this, because they would be based on a physical universe existing, determinism, causation, separation, etc. It is also blatantly evidenced in the non sensory of words (which did not and do not come from humans). When you are saying ‘brain’, there is awareness of ‘brain’ (wether it’s recognized as a thought or thought to be a separate object) but when I say ‘there is brain of awareness’, I sound like a love drunk fool. 

We can observe the brain stopping in others.

That is perception & thought. The cover up is that tight. 

[Adamq8]

@Moksha how do you imagine death to be? This is conciousness acting physical thus becoming brain, our brain has infinite capacity for evolution from where we are now, but you got your meta physical brain as well IE conciousness cause reality is a Mind, it just fractals off.

[Adamq8]

@Moksha form and formless are identical.  Makes no difference just different experiences,  duality, but at the highest level there is one Mind who projects everything, and our subconcious mind is tapping into the infinite potential field , your brain will never end it just keeps growing and growing