Is there any correlation between entlightment & compassion?

[Ivan Dimi]

Lately I am thinking a lot, if there is any real correlation between reaching higher level of conciousness (spiritually) and becoming ethically 'a better person' (more compassionate etc.) as a result. All the religions say yes, my intuition says yes as well, but I don't get it logically / intellectually. The ethics is a social construct and nothing more than a few human made rules (that change always depending on time, country, culture etc.), on the other side we have spirituality and conciousness that are the rock solid TRUTH. So the big question is can a person be a terrible human being (let say a torturer) and at the same time be truly enlightened? Here a interesting video of Slavoj Zizek philosophizing about this issue. Pretty interesting thoughts...

 

 

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, Ivan Dimi said:

Lately I am thinking a lot, if there is any real correlation between reaching higher level of conciousness (spiritually) and becoming ethically 'a better person' (more compassionate etc.) as a result.

There absolutely is a correlation. But it does not come from the ego's attempt to make itself a "better person" or a more moral person.

It comes from letting go of all that.

When you do, your true nature as Love shines through. And you'll know yourself as God.

[Nahm]

Consciousness is goodness.

[Leo Gura]

Without a self, you will do less selfish shit.

[UnbornTao]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Without a self, you will do less selfish shit.

Is that possible? 

Survival still demands identifying with something...

Maybe “to study the self is to forget the self“?

[Thestarguitarist14]

25 minutes ago, Arzola said:

Is that possible? 

Survival still demands identifying with something...

Maybe “to study the self is to forget the self“?

All those people are still identifying with having a self.

 

Take athlete.  No good athlete is completely selfless.  They are paid to be selfish for their organization.  I find that athletes lose their steam when they begin to become selfless and can’t do the cut throat shit that got them to the top.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Arzola said:

Is that possible? 

Survival still demands identifying with something...

Maybe “to study the self is to forget the self“?

Let me rephrase:

Once you realize the self is illusory, you will do less selfish shit. Because much of selfish action is sourced by a blind belief in the importance of the self.

This does not mean you will be perfectly selfless. Merely that you will have a tendency to be less selfish.

[tsuki]

5 hours ago, Ivan Dimi said:

The ethics is a social construct and nothing more than a few human made rules

More conscious humans tend to have better connection with their body and feelings which oftentimes increases the capacity for empathy, which makes morality mostly obsolete on a day-to-day basis.

[tsuki]

Also, you are dismissing morality as "nothing more than a few human made rules" as if they were completely arbitrary and self-serving in a very unconscious way. Not all morality is like that, granted - it is still a thought process - but at least a high quality one if you dare to look in the right places.

The main difference is that highly conscious people have the access to the origin of morality, as opposed to having it memorized and "acted out" under the threat of eternal hell.

[Leo Gura]

Since Consciousness is Love, the more conscious one is, the closer to Pure Love one is.

[okulele]

Realizing the Self (Nirvana) allows you to enter back into matter (Samsara) as that Self. That is compassion. Coming into matter as your own Self.

[allislove]

@Ivan Dimi

Imagine, you are playing with your fingers like so: 

You played so long that you forgot who you are, you think you are just "White Ninja".
Now, if you suddenly remember that you are not only the left hand playing "White Ninja" but you are everything, creator of the whole game:

• would you have more compassion for game characters? Sure.
• would you consciously do a bad thing to the game's character (like cutting a finger)? No, since you know that they are you.
• would you stop playing the fighting fingers game? No, since it's fun   

[zeroISinfinity]

@allislove Hahahahahahahahahaha ?

You are not @Nahmson. It turns out we are brothers and that @SoonHeiis our father at the end of this soap. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Ivan Dimi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Without a self, you will do less selfish shit.

Sure, without a self, you will do less selfish shit. Actually without a self you wouldn't do anything driven by the self / ego, because it doesn't exist. But does it automatically mean, that you aren't going to do any bad shit? I don't see the logic and the direct correlation.  Without a self you can do whatever you want to do just for the sake of doing it. Let's say you are born many years ago in Japan and trained since your childhood to be a hard core Japanese warrior. Let's say as a Japanese warrior you achieved through Zen Buddhism the state of 'no self'. Doesn't really mean that after achieving this state of no self you would stop fighting? Or after becoming no self you become even more effective worrier, sure not driven by your ego (it doesn't exist any more), but just driven by the will / fun of mastering your craft.

[No Self]

1 minute ago, Ivan Dimi said:

Doesn't really mean that after achieving this state of no self you would stop fighting? 

There is no way of predicting what one will do, as nothing is based on rigid mental rules in that state.

If we need a Bible to tell us 'Thou shalt not kill', we must have picked up the idea that we are all secretly serial killers who must suppress our most demonic urges in order to be good. 

All this makes it easy for the mind to fear becoming a 'bad person' and halting the process of pursuing ego death at the 11th hour. And yet, all of the most infamous people in history have acted from a place of heavy ego, while the greatest people have had very little ego.

[allislove]

9 hours ago, Ivan Dimi said:

Is there any correlation between entlightment & compassion?

That's how I usually check "I am enlightened AMA" threads, purely based on compassion.
Doesn't mean you agree with everyone, it means you are You.

[_Archangel_]

2 hours ago, Ivan Dimi said:

Sure, without a self, you will do less selfish shit. Actually without a self you wouldn't do anything driven by the self / ego, because it doesn't exist. But does it automatically mean, that you aren't going to do any bad shit? I don't see the logic and the direct correlation.  Without a self you can do whatever you want to do just for the sake of doing it. Let's say you are born many years ago in Japan and trained since your childhood to be a hard core Japanese warrior. Let's say as a Japanese warrior you achieved through Zen Buddhism the state of 'no self'. Doesn't really mean that after achieving this state of no self you would stop fighting? Or after becoming no self you become even more effective worrier, sure not driven by your ego (it doesn't exist any more), but just driven by the will / fun of mastering your craft.

a japanese warrior lived in different times, where war was often the only way in wich political drama wold end.
Militar competance was higly regarded because the neighbours tribe or countries could attack you at any moment. No diplomacy like now.
it was a matter of suvive or being killed. This means that a Warrior, even if enlightened, would honor his duty for the sake of future stability.

So war and fight is not hinerently bad. It from the point of view. in 2020, 1st w. countries are at a level of development in wich they can afford to dispise war because we have ingeneered new ways with wich we can solve conflicts.

By today's western standards anyway, it is true that an awakened one is much less likely to be a soldier, bank robber, gang member, gambler etc, even tough it doesen't mean they don't have to survive.
There is a big difference between, for example, eating and punching a granny, even if they are both selfish actions.
 

Edited September 30, 2020 by _Archangel_
i forgot to write down a thing

[SoonHei]

@allislove love it

the finger men are my favorite

 

@zeroISinfinityGO DO THE DISHES!

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by SoonHei

[zeroISinfinity]

19 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@allislove love it

19 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

the finger men are my favorite

 

She said that too. 

19 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@zeroISinfinityGO DO THE DISHES!

 

Better then forcing me to become gay, dad?! What da... 

[mandyjw]

Compassion can be a healing acceptance of suffering or it can be a projection of suffering on another.  A doctor can't slice through human flesh to remove a tumor and save a life while feeling the pain of the action he is inflicting on another as if it were happening to himself. Separation and connection seem to be opposites but are not in conflict. 

Sometimes our own squeamishness and projections take the guise of compassion and pretend to be doing good when they are actually an avoidance of pain, and the tumor lives happily ever after but no one else gets to. We sometimes project our own pain onto others and call it compassion. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by mandyjw