Facts Over Feelings: Why Rationalism is Important

[r0ckyreed]

So I just watched Actualized.org's Introspection video!  It was great!  I am just going to get right to the point, I think that rationalism is a better guide than feelings (please prove me wrong).  As much as I want to agree with Yoda when he says "search your feelings," I just do not see how we can trust our feelings. Our feelings are arbitrary and random. Rationality has been my way to cope with my feelings.  My feelings are not always rational, and I think the best way of introspecting is by examining your own mind and contemplating it.  You can examine your feelings, but our feelings are impermanent.  They are always subject to change, whereas rationality is more constant and in our control.  However, I do acknowledge the criticism of how can do we know what is rational?  What is the difference between rationality, and how can we know if rationality is the best way?  These are good criticisms because we cannot use rationality to verify whether it is the best way because that is biased, but this objection also works with feelings.  

I think we should feeling into our emotions, harness intuition, but truthful rationality is our instrument to guide our introspection.  Rationality is not about following some mathematical or logical formula.  Rationality is just using our thoughts to verify our experience on a deeper and impartial level.  Rationality is best when it is free and not bound by rules because to think outside the box, we have to be willing to explore the territory that is beyond logic.  Logic is a structured way of thinking, whereas rationality is more just about exploration, questioning, wonder, not-knowing to verify what is true.  Feelings can be influenced by events that are random and maybe irrational, but true rationality is able to see through the bullshit, and even it's own limitations.

Many people say that they "feel the holy spirit."  But if you were that person, how would you know that you felt the holy spirit and not just something else?  I think rationality helps us observe things impartially.  As soon as we bias our rationality to serve our beliefs, it becomes irrationality disguised as rationality to the person who thinks their beliefs are rational and not just beliefs, but the Absolute Truth.  

So this is my argument, please help me out here because I am more of a thinker than a feeler.  I have used Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy (REBT), which is a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) on myself my whole life.  I used my rationality to influence my emotions rather than my emotions influencing my rationality.  I think this is very important because emotions can influence how we rationalize things, but the rationality I am talking about is more like contemplation.  I see contemplation as basically rationalizing or questioning things at a deeper level to understand it.  

Thank you!

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

Your rationality has been completely co-opted by ego and selfishness.

Look inside and you'll see that this is so.

YOUR RATIONALITY IS RUN BY YOUR FEELINGS! It always has been. You were just too blind to feel it.

There is no rational reason why you should put food in your mouth. Yet you do so every day.

[r0ckyreed]

 @Leo Gura You are right, but aren't feelings also co-opted by ego and selfishness?  All I do to verify things is by examining, feeling, and then rationalize in that order.  My intuition is beyond my rationality, at least that is how I see it.

Edited September 29, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

 @Leo Gura You are right, but aren't feelings also co-opted by ego and selfishness?  

Which is why I told you it will take YEARS of genuine, truthful, introspection work to break free.

By "feeling" what I'm really talking about is CONSCIOUSNESS.

Consciousness = Truth

Unconsciousness = Falsehood

Do not confuse introspection with emotional reactivity.

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura Thank you!  I will continue to work on my introspection, but I still am skeptical about trusting my feelings because they are full of bias.  I think examination or observation like you said is our best guide, and this is what I meant by rationality.  I think that what I mean by rationality is just critical and truthful examination and observation

Edited September 29, 2020 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

@r0ckyreed I'm not telling you to trust your feelings. I'm telling you to feel them and observe them.

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura  Okay! Thank you so much man!  I wish you a great day!  Thanks for your time and videos!  I am going get your Life Purpose course for Christmas! 

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

When I was younger, I had this thought that if everyone were to follow their deepest genuine desire , this world would ve heaven. 

I was acting from love even after my twenties. Out of all people

 

 

2 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

 

I think we should feeling into our emotions, harness intuition, but truthful rationality is our instrument to guide our introspection.  Rationality is not about following some mathematical or logical formula.  Rationality is just using our thoughts to verify our experience on a deeper and impartial level.  Rationality is best when it is free and not bound by rules because to think outside the box, we have to be willing to explore the territory that is beyond logic.  Logic is a structured way of thinking, whereas rationality is more just about exploration, questioning, wonder, not-knowing to verify what is true.  Feelings can be influenced by events that are random and maybe irrational, but true rationality is able to see through the bullshit, and even it's own limitations.

Many people say that they "feel the holy spirit."  But if you were that person, how would you know that you felt the holy spirit and not just something else?  I think rationality helps us observe things impartially.  As soon as we bias our rationality to serve our beliefs, it becomes irrationality disguised as rationality to the person who thinks their beliefs are rational and not just beliefs, but the Absolute Truth.  

 

As a kid, I was an intp. But also a hyper sensitive person and can sense/understand things easily. 

Feeling & Truth. By truth, I was able to make unbias judgement at a young age. Feeling, I wasn't influenced by emotions but feelings. Or intuition. 

I am a logical person but not rational. (Except when I was young. When I used to be an intp throughout childhood up until high school). 

I have gone through the maximum of rationalism to the maximum feeling. Science school art university. Thinking family feeling me. 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Ibgdrgnxxv

[blandana]

Trusting your feelings can lead to decent career choices but there are "people" out there who try to take advantage of trust and enjoyment and gullibility which makes it a bad idea sometimes.

Personally my feelings towards other people's intentions tend to be pretty accurate but you always have to look out for people trying to take advantage of your trust due to "feelings" you have towards them that seem genuine.

That's really the only thing I can think of about it being irrational to use them for everything.

The most basic example is "mob mentality."  A good example of that is what the holocaust did.  It seemed like fun for some people I'm sure to make fun of jewish people or something but depending on what they did it might have turned illegal and before they realized it or had a "change of heart" in terms of their "feelings."  They were eventually in a worse place most likely when it all fell apart, not only spiritually but financially as well.

[r0ckyreed]

@Ibgdrgnxxv I am INTP  I took the test a few times and I am the Logician personality. Now that I think about it, I think it is kind of interesting that I am Intuitive and Thinking. I would think that Intuition is more in line with Feeling rather than Thinking. But I think the reason why I am Intuitive rather than Sensing is because I think reality is beyond our senses. Intuition is our unconsciousness picking up things that are conscious mind can barely comprehend I guess.

[yetineti]

Good thoughts. Interesting that you feel this way

[TripleFly]

learning about your feelings teaches you about everything in the universe.

feeling your feelings is becoming one with god

[Consept]

Ultimately it still comes back to your feelings, you like a rational approach because it feels good, it gives you some kind of certainty, if it didn't feel good you wouldn't take that approach. Feelings just happen and then we put a perspective on them or act in response to them, the key is to witness or just feel the feelings without trying to work them out with language in our head. In that way you could act more consciously rather than being unconsciously thrown around by your feelings 

[mandyjw]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

YOUR RATIONALITY IS RUN BY YOUR FEELINGS! It always has been. You were just too blind to feel it.

I love this so much. It is equally a HUGE relief, absolutely healing, forgiving, etc, and also... terrifying. 

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

@r0ckyreed

9 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Ibgdrgnxxv I am INTP  I took the test a few times and I am the Logician personality. Now that I think about it, I think it is kind of interesting that I am Intuitive and Thinking. I would think that Intuition is more in line with Feeling rather than Thinking. But I think the reason why I am Intuitive rather than Sensing is because I think reality is beyond our senses. Intuition is our unconsciousness picking up things that are conscious mind can barely comprehend I guess.

My personality changes depending on the field that i'm in. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Ibgdrgnxxv

[Ibgdrgnxxv]

 

 

6 hours ago, Consept said:

Ultimately it still comes back to your feelings, you like a rational approach because it feels good, it gives you some kind of certainty, if it didn't feel good you wouldn't take that approach. Feelings just happen and then we put a perspective on them or act in response to them, the key is to witness or just feel the feelings without trying to work them out with language in our head. In that way you could act more consciously rather than being unconsciously thrown around by your feelings 

When you are being rational, feelings are completely disregarded. Not a personal relation would be considered. 

[Thestarguitarist14]

A great example of a rational person is Lelouch from Code Geass.  He is a rational’s rational.  Sees everyone has pawns on his chessboard and plays them as such.  He of course sees this as okay as he his a goal in mind that is for the greater good.

 

Being too rational can lead to devilery.

[Consept]

3 hours ago, Ibgdrgnxxv said:

 

 

When you are being rational, feelings are completely disregarded. Not a personal relation would be considered. 

You feel that it's possible to completely disregard feelings and be some kind of objectively rational person but I would say it's close to impossible, everything goes through your feelings filter. You can see bias, feelings and different perspectives coming through people who claim to be rational all the time. Take someone like Ben Shapiro, who says 'facts don't care about your feelings', isn't it coincidental that all his objective facts lead him to conclusions that uphold his already established worldview and Conservative ideologies. If he was completely objective he wouldn't even have an established, rigid stand point. 

Being rational will always be through a human perspective, its like if an ant said they were rational and that led to a full understanding of the world, the ant can not see as much we can or in the way we can so it does not have a full understanding or view of the world. In the same way are view is always limited, really the only 'rational' approach would be to realise the limitations of rationality, I could argue putting rationality first before feelings would be irrational because rationality is a concept somewhat created by our feelings, so why not accept your feelings first and then add rationality as a concept after 

[r0ckyreed]

Thank you all for your responses! I am learning a lot!