Your views on this Gandhi quote please

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

Hi guys!

 

I've recently read a book which, in my opinion, is very valuable. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with it: Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda.

In the book, there is a chapter about his time meeting Mahatma Gandhi. The leader is quoted with the following:

 

"Even if the opponent plays him false twenty times, the satyagrahi is ready to trust him the twenty-first time, for an implicit trust in human nature is the very essence of the creed."

 

My heart was greatly inspired by this, and so I wrote it down in the quotes section of my notebook. But then, later in the day, my logical mind started pondering at it. I mean, wouldn't it be rather foolish to still trust the person who plays you false so many times? I recognise the importance of intuition over logical thinking, and have been using it with great success more and more. Yet I am rather torn when it comes to this quote by the great Gandhi. Any opinions from this awesome community would be much appreciated!

 

Anyways, I hope you all are doing well, and thank you for your time!

Jaka

[Guest SirVladimir]

When you give up your human identity, it's not foolish to trust. Nothing can harm you. 

[aurum]

I'd argue Ghandi was pointing to a profound spiritual truth.

The separate ego-self cannot trust. It is in a war against "the others" for survival and wants to protect itself. It does not recognize the divine essence and intelligence in all things.

But the sage knows who or what they are really looking at. The sage knows they are looking at themselves as love manifested. That is our essential nature.

So really what Ghandi is saying is that he knows. He knows who that person really is. And when we can just truly see each other through those eyes, often that is enough to bring about healing.

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

@SirVladimir @aurum I've experienced the letting go of the ego-self identity once so far, if only for a few seconds before the ego's fear of loss of "self" pulled me back. So I can totally see your guys' points! You have cleared the confusion up for me, thank you both for your guidance!

[kag101]

12 hours ago, Jaka Pirs Hanzic said:

I mean, wouldn't it be rather foolish to still trust the person who plays you false so many times?

Obviously. 

[Preety_India]

It's Gandhi not Ghandi.

This is my interpretation of it. 

I think what Gandhi is trying to say that the satyagrahi is the one who stays true to his principle no matter what the opponent does. It's the opponent's karma which is a core Hindu belief 

Which means you have remained true to your creed, you have remained true to your inner Innocence which is your creed and so you are exempt from guilt or wrongdoing. You did your job of trusting as a human therefore you're the true satyagrahi or the noble one and the true one. 

You remain in the good and the good in you will inspire the opponent to follow your divinity. His heart melts at your satyagraha and he will learn like a prodigal son to come to terms with the guilt of his conscience and he will then make ramifications and come on the right path. The satyagrahi or truth seeker showed him this path by setting an example through his own satya or satyagrahi self. 

His crusading and penance has thus come to fruition with the opponent now realizing what true humanity should be. 

Paramhansa states the importance of such a crusade. 

It's in line with Gandhi's core belief that we must be the change we wish to see in the World. 

In a way Gandhi wanted to say that we are mirror to the world. As we are, so the world will be. The Satyagrahi will show the way through his crusade, penance and great suffering. 

 

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi

Edited September 28, 2020 by Preety_India

[lmfao]

@Jaka Pirs Hanzic It's a profound quote. 

However it can also be said that it depends. 

There is a time to turn the other cheek, but there is also a time to slap back twice. 

 

Non-dual love and acceptance of others needn't mean you automatically trust them in a worldly affair (e.g. I won't trust my enemy to be in a situation which they are likely to cause what I deem to be harm). At the "ultimate level" you trust them in the way that you trust all of reality, but trust in the relative sense (e.g. Do I trust A will do/(not do) B action) is variable. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by lmfao

[okulele]

You don't trust blindly, but you are always willing to see the One Self in the other, even if he was false twenty times. You see that the One is there, untouched - so there is a possibility of change. Always.

[GoingHome]

It would be similar to Jesus talking about forgiving 70 X 7. When you come to know who you truly are then there is no fear and no reason not to trust as you know that everyone has the same true nature. 

I think Byron Katie is a beautiful example of this. She talks about how when she woke up to reality at 43yrs of age (she had an instant enlightened experience) she lost all fear and only had love. In her book “A thousand names for joy” she talks about how she goes all over the world without fear as when you have no fear of death and you believe everyone is ultimately you then there is nothing to fear (she explains it better, don’t have my book on me to quote it fully!). 

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

@Preety_India Thank you, this was very beautifully written and it helped me understand all this perfectly!

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

@lmfao Thank you, it makes sense. It's good to be reassured that one can still be firm in this maya, yet completely trusting from the Universal perspective!

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

@okulele  Thank you! You have reassured me about this, like ive said in the reply to lmfao as well!

[Jaka Pirs Hanzic]

@GoingHome Thank you, this is now starting to make sense! And thanks for pointing me to Byron Katie and her book, will definetly add it to my to-read list!

[ajai]

On 27/09/2020 at 7:23 PM, Jaka Pirs Hanzic said:

"Even if the opponent plays him false twenty times, the satyagrahi is ready to trust him the twenty-first time, for an implicit trust in human nature is the very essence of the creed."

If I have to put this in more general sense, I would rather say what Gandhi Ji meant was not what we thinks about and take it way too literally at times, infact that was used or said metaphorically all it mean is given our limited basis of understanding we should give others a second chance always cause at times someone might react impulsively given a particular situation, hence it must be the responsibility of an educated/aware individual to always see if there's any room for improvement in someone's  behaviour or conscience before  leading to an unconscious decision.

Just knowing the essence of human nature that's the must have quality especially when you are involved in political struggles like Gandhi Ji was involved in.

He basically had to go through a lot, hear a lot, met a lot of people during the independence struggle during early 1900s. So in throwing a narcissistic reign it's important to be always in touch diplomatically speaking, you gotta keep negotiating and put forth your demands on the table till they are met. And in doing this sometimes you have to "trust" someone to get your work done but again you are wary of where things might get wrong you are not blindly doing this, you are doing this for  a bigger sense of purpose, at times you have to put a facade to show ostensible trust in someone because you are willing to go to any stretch for getting things work out your way.

That's what we did and was arguably succeeded to some extent.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by ajai