A serious debate about permatrip and hospitals

[EntheogenTruthSeeker]

It can’t be that it’s just people with a shadow that end up in psych wards. 
 

I have direct experience with mushrooms sending me into psychosis, insomnia, and mania. That happened only once from doing 10-15grams all the while realizing everything is heaven and I’m god. But the next two days all I was doing was crying and couldn’t sleep the second day, then went into mania and hospital. 
 

it seems there’s a bias on this forum that they’re just underdeveloped people getting themselves into trouble, but what about individual brain chemistry? 
 

done psychs 8-9 times with success aside from that recent one. 
 

ive talked to many people in psych wards that got fucked off psychedelics. Someone please light some clarity on this. 
 

I feel like Leo is not compassionate about this because he claims he’s had good mental health. He has like perfect neurochemistry it seems. 

[Leo Gura]

Obviously psychedelics are for those people who have the metal capacity to handle them. If psychedelics are sending you into madness, stop taking them.

Psychedelics are not for mentally unstable people. You should have known this from your preliminary research.

[electroBeam]

Nonduality IS insanity and madness from the POV of duality

[electroBeam]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If psychedelics are sending you into madness, never stop taking them.

Totally agree 

[JohnD]

@Leo Gura Did you mean to say "never stop taking them"? Seems opposite from the previous sentence

Edit: nvm, he misquoted you

Edited September 26, 2020 by JohnD

[Nahm]

27 minutes ago, EntheogenTruthSeeker said:

But the next two days all I was doing was crying and couldn’t sleep the second day, then went into mania and hospital. 

 

27 minutes ago, EntheogenTruthSeeker said:

Someone please light some clarity on this. 

Mania is a narrative. The Truth (psych’s) tend to show The Truth to The Truth. Then the ‘hangover’ tends to be awareness of the falsities held, relative to the previous experience of The Truth. Integration and embodiment, are spiritual vernacular for what in the dualistic psychological paradigm is referred to as mania, psychosis, etc. The difference could be said to be getting sucked into a narrative, or not.  More personally speaking, if you felt you needed to go to the hospital, I’m glad you went. Had you started small and increased your dose / depth incrementally, the relativity of the falsity would have been more nominal, and not so hospital level heavy. And yet, some people want that ‘too big dose’, and want to breathe & ball through that purification. I favor the more conservative no rush approach. 

[EntheogenTruthSeeker]

@Leo Gura thanks a lot. Sad that such a great resource is gone. Guess rasa and normal practices now.  

[EntheogenTruthSeeker]

@Nahm I did fuck up by doing too much, but it fucked me up for like two weeks after. I was sleeping like 2-3 hrs a night. Not cool. It can’t be spiritually solved at that point - I just get drugged at a hospital to recover. It is what it is at this point. 

[roopepa]

I've had psychotic symptoms after one really bad 5g trip. I thought I could handle them but guess I was wrong.

It's actually a pretty scary story. The trip started good, learned a ton, had a breaktrough... But when I started to come down, I started to recieve advanced metaphysical teachings from a TV show that told me that I have to commit suicide. Freaked out completely. I was almost completely sure that I have to kill myself. It felt like everything I had ever learned about spirituality was actually pointing towards suicide. Yikes. Had to call an ambulance.

The trip and delusions ended, but I was still scared shitless. Could not believe that something like this can happen. Some weeks later, the delusions came back. Started to recieve "signs" from TV, music, books etc. that told me that I have to kill myself. Got panic attacks, felt like suicide was "pulling" me towards it, kind of like when you are on a cliff or a rooftop and you feel a pull towards the edge. Feared that I might lose control over my body/mind and actually do it. Spent a week in hospital, took pills, and thankfully the delusions went away.

Things are going better now, but there is still anxiety and some moments when I fear that the delusions might come back. I think I really have to face the fear of death to get over this. So in a sense, maybe it's a good thing. It forces me to go deep within and face my fears.

It's been kind of rough because I'm really interested in reality/spirituality but it seems like at least for now, psychedelics are not a safe tool for me. I always wanted to be a psychonaut. It's been hard to let go of that identity/dream.

@Leo Gura @Nahm Any thoughts/advice? Should I forget psychedelics for good or just wait a couple of years? There is a belief that I can't really achieve God-consciousness without psychedelics and it makes me sad. I really want to understand reality.

 

[EntheogenTruthSeeker]

@roopepa Bro, I 1000% relate to your story. It’s like things and people are sending you “signs” and it seems like everything is leading you to some spiritual mountain and that the world is revolving around you (kinda schizophrenic basically) 

Same thing happened to me. 
 

i am so obsessed with psychedelics as that’s part of Leo’s whole education, so it takes a while to let go of that belief that you can’t get there without them. It sucks but it’s better than spending your time in hospitals. 
 

sad, but true. DM if you want to talk more! 

[electroBeam]

The spiritual path is about attitude guys. Its not about achieving a particular state, doing stuff like killing yourself, becoming aware of phenomena and aspects of reality... Its not about interpreting your experiences as psychotic or not. Its about having a positive, loving attitude towards WHATEVER arises. Whether that is dissolving of self, dissociation or forgetting parts of reality, hallucinations, etc. Both @roopepa and the original poster are both failing MASSIVELY on having the right, positive attitude towards whatever is arising. 

Your ego has no free will. Its not in control. Taking large doses of magic mushrooms did not occur because your ego has free will and took them based of reason or judgement. The experience was gonna happen anyway, because that's what God wanted, not you. And you tricked yourself into thinking the experience happened because of you, the personal self, rather than to you, because you can't handle the fact that your egos don't have free will. 

Learn to accept whatever arises, whether thats insanity, a breakup, boss getting angry at you, uncomfortable trauma, etc. Rather than trying to control whatever arises in consciousness (which is straight up one of the most retarded and delusional beliefs you have. Because your thoughts, phenomena, what you do, etc. Is not caused by your ego. Its caused by the present moment). That's how the spiritual path is meant to be done. 

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

@Leo Gura Did you mean to say "never stop taking them"? Seems opposite from the previous sentence

Edit: nvm, he misquoted you

It was a typo in my original post which I edited out.

[B222]

@roopepa fuckk this resonates so much. I was fearing being killed for a long time and during a stronger dose than usual, I felt like at this very point it was gonna happen and it was meant to be. Was fuckin mayhem, but I accepted fate and was waiting for a bullet to the end. It sounds hilarious thinking back, but deep in the trenches, shit got dark. Then the ambulance saved my life?

I asked for it going in and it took me to the darkest depths. I don’t wish it on anyone, but glad I can say it’s gone. 

Crazy powerful substances. 

[roopepa]

15 hours ago, electroBeam said:

The spiritual path is about attitude guys. Its not about achieving a particular state, doing stuff like killing yourself, becoming aware of phenomena and aspects of reality... Its not about interpreting your experiences as psychotic or not. Its about having a positive, loving attitude towards WHATEVER arises. Whether that is dissolving of self, dissociation or forgetting parts of reality, hallucinations, etc. Both @roopepa and the original poster are both failing MASSIVELY on having the right, positive attitude towards whatever is arising.  

That's actually been one of the key insights I've learned. Consciously love everything. Loving the bad trip, fear of death, has been very helpful.

15 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Your ego has no free will. Its not in control. Taking large doses of magic mushrooms did not occur because your ego has free will and took them based of reason or judgement. The experience was gonna happen anyway, because that's what God wanted, not you. And you tricked yourself into thinking the experience happened because of you, the personal self, rather than to you, because you can't handle the fact that your egos don't have free will. 

During the trip it became very clear that it was not my free will that got me there. I don't see what you are trying to point towards here.

[roopepa]

16 hours ago, EntheogenTruthSeeker said:

@roopepa It’s like things and people are sending you “signs” and it seems like everything is leading you to some spiritual mountain and that the world is revolving around you (kinda schizophrenic basically) 

 Yeah! I'm still feeling that way. But without the suicide-part. Not sure if it's delusional or just spiritual awakening. There is really strong intuition that something massive is coming. Like everything around you is trying to point you towards yourself. The mind and the world are collapsing into one.

[roopepa]

14 hours ago, B222 said:

@roopepa Crazy powerful substances. 

Psychedelics make impossible possible. They have absolutely no limits.

Edited September 27, 2020 by roopepa

[Bulgarianspirit]

I have and still have some hppd. However it is treatable,mine is 60 percent better. I was also severely depersonalized. Idk if you know, but most ppl freak out, some even commit suicide. They should know there is help and meds available.

Psychedelics can lead do death of brain cells and specifically the ones that produce gaba and inhibit brain signaling. Low levels of these neurons can cause epilepsy like symtoms, visual tripping and put you in hell.. But it subsides the brain is adaptive and deals with the mess.

 

[EntheogenTruthSeeker]

@Bulgarianspirit glad to hear you’re better. What source do you have for the last paragraph?

[Bulgarianspirit]

The hppd forums... And a reddit post.

Hppd forums thread

http://hppdonline.com/topic/6734-back-possible-cure-part-2-no-guarantees-but-were-here-anyways/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-42939

Effects of Taurine on gaba

https://amp.reddit.com/r/HPPD/comments/edox5y/taurine_and_its_effects_on_hppd/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14737175.2019.1593827

Bacopa monnieri

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3306740/

Bacopa monnieri can help restore gaba receptors,limit excitability and it cures epilepsy in rats. I also used it with taurine to get rid of the symptoms i had for good.

It is related to excitotoxicity.

https://amp.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3qm2kx/what_are_the_symptoms_of_glutamate_excitotoxicity/

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPPD/comments/edox5y/taurine_and_its_effects_on_hppd/

Not enough gaba to stop the excited cells so eventually they get overwhelmed and some of them day.

Restoring the balance is essential.

It is why things such as benzos and valerian are trip killers, they prevent some of the overload and limit the action potential of neurons.

You really get closer to death with psychs even physically xDD

But the brain is a crazy machine... It makes new cells, lowers receptor counts to prevent cell death etc. So most people survive unscathed, it has a lot of evolution mechanism in place to prevent cell death.

If anyone here gets fried... I can help

 

I was fried...

Edited October 1, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit