Non Manipilation Vs Do Nothing - Differences Explained

[Josh2]

Hi! Can anyone describe me what the main differences are in Non manipulation method and do nothing ... I know both are very similar and it is very easy to mix them up-especially when you expect a similar outcome in each sit. I would be super grateful if someone would explain me this  

[Markus]

As far as I'm concerned, It's the same thing - not consciously manipulating your experience. Be still. Allow everything to be. Let go. Do nothing. I believe it's also called "just sitting", "the meditation of no meditation".

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

Do nothing is more like dropping the intention to use your attention and non manipulation is more like just sitting there just being and experiencing everyting that's there.

It's called "Shikantaza" or "just sitting" in Soto Zen. Some Soto Zen masters explain it as the "do nothing" techniquie and some explain it as "no manipulation".

I've done the "do nothing" technique for about a year and I have been doing the other one for a few weeks now. For me it feels better to just sit there and experience everything. I tend to get the same results and feelings from both techniques but just sitting there feels more effortless. Experimentation my friend!!!

[Markus]

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj I don't see a practical difference. If there is one, I'd like to see it, but I'm not able to. Not manipulating your experience = not controlling your attention, isn't it?

[Leo Gura]

I find do-nothing to actually still be manipulative, because you're sorta trying to do nothing.

Whereas if you phrase it as: stop manipulating, just experience what is -- then your mind will get it: "Oh! They really mean: do nothing and just be aware."

Of course the actual practice pointed to is the same. But it's a matter of your mind actually grasping what that practice feels like in practice. Which isn't easy to communicate no matter which language or technique is given, because the mind doesn't want to understand it.

[Markus]

Aha! I get it now.

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

12 hours ago, Markus said:

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj I don't see a practical difference. If there is one, I'd like to see it, but I'm not able to. Not manipulating your experience = not controlling your attention, isn't it?

Kind of what Leo said. Just sitting becomes like "do nothing" without "do nothing" in a sense. You can also translate it into what Shinzen Young calls "note: everything".

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj

[Markus]

@Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj What Leo said cleared it all up for me:) It's not note everything though, since that implies the activity of noting elements of your experience from any sensory channel. There's no noting in do nothing.