Is an awakening experience more life-changing if sober rather than on psychedelics

[Angelo D]

If so, why do you think this is?

[Nahm]

?

? 

[seeking_brilliance]

Do you mean life changing or do you mean taken more seriously, or what?  Tell us how you think life might change after an awakening experience, regardless of if it happened 'sober'.

Side note,  does sober exist? We are always pumped full of chemicals, most of which we make up ourselves

[Angelo D]

Let's say a young Peter-Ralston goes on an enlightenment intensive and has an awakening. His life is never the same afterward as his ego seems much more vastly diminished. If he had not done the inquiry sober but popped a psychedelic and had an awakening, would the long-term results be the same?

[seeking_brilliance]

All roads lead to Rome. Why would it matter which chariot he takes?  The results are so subjective they don't even matter.  Leo could claim to be more awake, more enlightened because of 5-meo-dmt, but I bet Peter Ralston doesn't exist so much he wouldn't care or feel like missing out.  Stick out your hand and take the reins. Which chariot do you prefer? 

Edited September 26, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Angelo D]

mmh. I'm planning on trying psychedelics soon if my intuition permits. On one level it sounds too good to be true, too easy, that one might have an equally life-changing awakening on psychedelics as off. This is why I ask. 

It seems like from what I hear, there is no difference. Thoughts?

[Fran11]

The awakening moment itself will probably be deeper on psychedelics. 

But if you are able to achieve a sober one in meditation, it means your baseline everyday conciousness is significantly high. Like being on a low to moderate dose 24/7.

Better going for both IMO, they potentiate each other.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Fran11

[Willie]

I think Leo’s whole point of advocating for psychedelics is that it streamlines the process. Saying things like more or better than is missing the point.

[Adamq8]

2 hours ago, Angelo D said:

mmh. I'm planning on trying psychedelics soon if my intuition permits. On one level it sounds too good to be true, too easy, that one might have an equally life-changing awakening on psychedelics as off. This is why I ask. 

It seems like from what I hear, there is no difference. Thoughts?

You will never reach that kind of experience without psychedelics it is fucking insane

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

You will never reach that kind of experience without psychedelics it is fucking insane

Jhana 5, 6, 7, and 8 are considerably more of an intense mystical experience than normal non-reckless doses of all but the gnarliest of psychedelics.

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

You will never reach that kind of experience without psychedelics it is fucking insane

Definitely not true. You can have kundalini awakenings sober that are way more insane then psychedelics because you're tripping for an entire week instead of just 20 minutes, 6 or 12 hours

[The0Self]

32 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Definitely not true. You can have kundalini awakenings sober that are way more insane then psychedelics because you're tripping for an entire week instead of just 20 minutes, 6 or 12 hours

Exactly. Imagine going multiple days just walking around laughing because you don’t feel the weight of your body at all.

Edited September 26, 2020 by The0Self

[Adamq8]

@electroBeam alright gonna check into that, but i srsly doubt that it can produce the same state at psychedelics, tho im not saying that meditation does not produce a different state of conciousness, but in my experience psychedelics beats meditation for producing GOD conciousness, the absolute source of existence. 

Im combining them both and I do enjoy meditation everyday and am serious about it, psychedelics tho is a destroyer of ur life when you really see the true self..

[electroBeam]

8 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

@electroBeam alright gonna check into that, but i srsly doubt that it can produce the same state at psychedelics, tho im not saying that meditation does not produce a different state of conciousness, but in my experience psychedelics beats meditation for producing GOD conciousness, the absolute source of existence. 

Im combining them both and I do enjoy meditation everyday and am serious about it, psychedelics tho is a destroyer of ur life when you really see the true self..

Bahahahahha.

Don't know how to answer that one. Would have feel whats going on inside your head.

[Osaid]

7 hours ago, Angelo D said:

On one level it sounds too good to be true, too easy,

The trade-off is that you need no practice or consciousness work to take a psychedelic, whereas sober you must develop yourself and fix up your ego prior to reaching that state.

When you take a psychedelic it is very possible your ego won't be ready for the experience. When you take a psychedelic you force Truth upon yourself instead of reaching there at your ego's pace.

It's the difference of immediately jumping into a cold shower instead of slowly turning up the coldness from a warmer shower first.

 

[Jodistrict]

One problem with psychedelics is that the visions quickly fade from memory.   I had a huge experience nine months ago with 5-meo-DMT.   It changed me from someone who thought scientific materialism was obvious, to someone who can’t believe he was so naïve.  I had contact with divinity but I can  no longer recall the full force of it.  There is no magic bullet.  Spiritual techniques are still necessary to stabilize the mind so that whatever state you achieve, you can make it permanent.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@electroBeam The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is very powerful.

[Litaken]

It doesn't matter how you get there. You are again, searching for a special event or happening or feeling, but there is no such thing. All you have to do is realize that life is a spontaneous phenomena, from your point of view, totally happening by itself. It's all your interference with this simple truth, that messes the picture up.