Practised brutal honesty with my first FWB/gf

[Thestarguitarist14]

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Never be honest with a girl. It seems to be a law of physics that when you are honest with a girl she will leave you. At least that's my personal experience.

You must date some terrible women them.  Not saying what you are saying is not true.  But it is only true for low value women.

[StarStruck]

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Never be honest with a girl. It seems to be a law of physics that when you are honest with a girl she will leave you. At least that's my personal experience.

From what I researched this is what I understand about honesty:

In relationships honesty is not an absolute. There is always a balance between honesty and relevance.

For example, if you are at a date with a girl and you have to fart, it is not relevant to say you have to fart, it is not relevant to the context although it would be totally honest if you told her that you have to fart.

Basically you shouldn't fart is what I learnt.

6 hours ago, Proserpina said:

 From reading what you've written @StarStruck,  I don't think she likes you.  You should split. A part of spiritual maturity is learning to listen to your gut and minimizing contact with sources who are unhelpful. 

I called her, and I just told her that I'm an adult and if she doesn't like me she should tell me.  We talked like for 40 minutes and I really pushed her to just tell me she doesn't like me. She couldn't. I think she likes me but I got caught in the boyfriend frame. I was too uptight, not playful enough I think.

Eventually she said she likes dominant non needy guys. She said I appeared as a guy who is the opposite of dominant (mentally) but I acted as a dominant guy and she found that insincere. That is reason she didn't accept my advances when I escalated for sex.

We agreed on being friends, which easily can be upgraded to friends with benefits, but I'm not going to chase her anymore. I told her to call me if she wants to talk/meet up. Big chance she will never call me. I'm easily replaceable for a chad who doesn't have personality problems.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by StarStruck

[Proserpina]

28 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I was too uptight, not playful enough I think.  

I feel ya, man.  I've always had issues socially too. Big reason I do enlightenment work.  When my core is rock solid I can 'fart' in a social setting and everyone thinks it's cute. God forbid I ever go through a valley though. Social suicide. 

[StarStruck]

23 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

I feel ya, man.  I've always had issues socially too. Big reason I do enlightenment work.  When my core is rock solid I can 'fart' in a social setting and everyone thinks it's cute. God forbid I ever go through a valley though. Social suicide. 

That is a good point. Some people can pull off farting (metaphorically) in public because they just have social intelligence, how and when to do it. And when they do it: it is just self expression. They don't care and are sure of themselves.

And also: not all farts are created equally.

[DreamScape]

@Martin123  

"set your fears aside, and meet her with the openness that only good can come out of what happens between the two of you. It this way you’re making sure that no amount of potential disappointment will sabotage your opportunity to grow and evolve!"

 

Do we need to use relationships to deal with relationship based trauma?

Edited October 5, 2020 by DreamScape

[Martin123]

@DreamScape there’s no such thing as ‘non-relationship based trauma’,

 

that is simply because any trauma we carry in our body is created by the negative relationship we have with the experience. When we feel an emotion and create a judgement about it saying that it is bad we are storing trauma in our subconscious mind repressing energy that needs to be healed under the pressure of self-judgement.

 

When we enter a relationship it is an opportunity to obsolve ourselves of judgements, by meeting every experience with love and openness.

 

However where this first needs to take place is in a relationship to ourselves, and until we meet ourselves with love and openness,  we cannot hope that we will be able to do the same for another person, nor  will someone else be able to do that for us in a way that satisfies the way you want, because unless openness and love are familiar to your subconscious mind by repeating  love and openness to yourself on a regular basis, it will be registered as foreign and/or a threat to your nervous system and it will cause you to either lash out, or delete it out of your perception. 

[DreamScape]

@Martin123 thank u

[StarStruck]

@tsuki

I made an appointment with a psychotherapist and I have a final question about overthinking. A lot of people tell me I'm overthinking. This might be true if you compare me to "normal" people. Probably the reason why I'm bad at certain things is that I'm overthinking and making things more complicated than they are. That is probably why people get shocked when I tell them I find it difficult to make friends and get a gf. They tell me it is very easy.

The problem I have though is that when I stop overthinking is that I operate in automatic pilot and I stay in my bubble of comfort. If I do overthink, I might get some insight but these insights won't be very useful because it will be within my current paradigm.

I have been contemplating about this and I think I just have to listen to my feelings more but when I do this I get caught up in overthinking very fast. It is so hard for me not to overthink. I have been doing this all my life and I think it is a key trait I have that distinguishes me from other people.

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

The problem I have though is that when I stop overthinking is that I operate in automatic pilot and I stay in my bubble of comfort. If I do overthink, I might get some insight but these insights won't be very useful because it will be within my current paradigm.

That is because you are not experiencing the things that your thoughts express. You are merely "having thoughts" about things and not "experiencing" them. Bring to your attention anything that is familiar to you, let's say, that girl you were dating. What do you truly know about her? When you are merely having thoughts about her, you are bringing about the things that you either believed to be true, or imagining things that you could have learned from her given enough time. Alternatively, you might have invented some new things and taken them for true.

What you are not doing is, really experiencing what is true, absolutely, directly, with no concepts. You are not present to her beyond any knowledge or facts. There is a whole domain that is beyond knowledge that is sometimes called presence, or being. This is not about her, specifically, this can be seen in any aspect of life, for example - yourself. What do you really know about you? What are you prior to any beliefs? Can you be present to yourself?

Don't get me wrong, you are not special in being deficient. Most people can't truly "be", even the ones that give this advice. Most of them don't truly understand/experience what it means to really be present. "The Book of Not Knowing" by Peter Ralston dives deeply into this subject, I highly recommend it.

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I have been contemplating about this and I think I just have to listen to my feelings more but when I do this I get caught up in overthinking very fast. It is so hard for me not to overthink. I have been doing this all my life and I think it is a key trait I have that distinguishes me from other people.

What is "over"-thinking? You are picking these labels from people and getting worried without seeing what is being said. What it truly means to overthink, to you? What do you truly know about that?

[StarStruck]

20 hours ago, tsuki said:

That is because you are not experiencing the things that your thoughts express. You are merely "having thoughts" about things and not "experiencing" them. Bring to your attention anything that is familiar to you, let's say, that girl you were dating. What do you truly know about her? When you are merely having thoughts about her, you are bringing about the things that you either believed to be true, or imagining things that you could have learned from her given enough time. Alternatively, you might have invented some new things and taken them for true.

What you are not doing is, really experiencing what is true, absolutely, directly, with no concepts. You are not present to her beyond any knowledge or facts. There is a whole domain that is beyond knowledge that is sometimes called presence, or being. This is not about her, specifically, this can be seen in any aspect of life, for example - yourself. What do you really know about you? What are you prior to any beliefs? Can you be present to yourself?

Don't get me wrong, you are not special in being deficient. Most people can't truly "be", even the ones that give this advice. Most of them don't truly understand/experience what it means to really be present. "The Book of Not Knowing" by Peter Ralston dives deeply into this subject, I highly recommend it.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation.

By the way, when I called her and when we decided to be friends without benefits. She told me exactly what you told me: "you are seeing things that are not there, as harsh as it sounds". I can't remember in which context she meant that but you are spot on because she told me the same thing. I thanked her for the feedback.

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What is "over"-thinking? You are picking these labels from people and getting worried without seeing what is being said. What it truly means to overthink, to you? What do you truly know about that?

When I overthink, I usually think about past knowledge/trauma/lessons from the past and try to prevent future failures/pain. I know what I have to do: just surrender to the now. For me that is problematic though. I did try Eckhart Tolle's stuff in the past and it was basically me walking into a mine field with my blinders on.

Edited October 6, 2020 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

5 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Hey, whatever these pussy cravers say here.

You actually did something insanely beautiful and interesting.Don't listen to them, unless your goal is purely to have sex.Such an unusual experience is worth more than a missed opportunity of sex.

I would never have the motivation to go into psychotherapy if she didn't put a hole in my ego. She told me she would have fucked me if I didn't put up the boyfriend frame. The only thing she did was put a flash light on me and I can't be the same person anymore. I'm already a different person for the better or the worst. If I acted as a jerk, just hit it & quit it, I wouldn't have grown.

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I can only laugh and applaud you for pulling that off. I actually have to thank you as well.

I don't understand why you thank me though.

[StarStruck]

@neutralempty people always tell me I'm unusual. That is what she told me and I hated it. I just have to accept what I'm though. Hopefully one day I will have a normal dating life. I want to get the experience before I settle down with 1 lady.

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I know what I have to do: just surrender to the now. For me that is problematic though. I did try Eckhart Tolle's stuff in the past and it was basically me walking into a mine field with my blinders on.

"Surrendering" is a very misleading word. A better one is "presence", or "wakefulness", or "being alert". The gateway is through not-knowing.

[NatureB]

If I can add my direct experience here:

Do as a few of us have said and get a therapist. My therapist is doing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Eye Movement Desensetization and Reprocessing (EMDR) with me and I am starting to feel amazing. And the better I feel, the easier time I have interacting with women. More and more I have been noticing girls looking at me and giving me signs of interest.

Take at least 6 months off (imo) to heal yourself. Work on your trauma. Especially your family trauma, and especially especially your relationship with your mother. Because all of this weighs you down and makes you needy, submissive, etc. Your negative attributes are exacerbated by your trauma. We all have trauma, some deeper than others. Based on the fact that you are an incel at 31, I'd guess you have more than most. Not saying this to put you down, but to highlight the fact that there is some work you need to do.

And I am giving you this advice because I have taken it myself. I started April 1 this year working on one thing per day as it pertains to relationships and dating, using meditation as my tool. Later I added therapy. MDMA has helped recently as well. My transformation in the last 6 months is nothing short of that, a transformation of who I am at a fundamental level.

Read The Truth by Neil Strauss. This book will break you in the best way, and inspire you to heal. Because what you really want is to be healed. And what the girl really wants is for you to be healed!

 

P.S. listen to Leo's advice. It's gold.

Edited October 6, 2020 by NatureB

[StarStruck]

@NatureB I was already thinking which topics I should discuss with my psychotherapist. That was what I thought too: especially my dysfunctional family and non-emotionally present mother is the cause of this. I acted as my date was my mother and that she would fix all of the things. I did couple of other ridiculous stuff which I'm too ashamed to type here. How did you use MDMA for trauma healing?

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Read The Truth by Neil Strauss. This book will break you in the best way, and inspire you to heal. Because what you really want is to be healed. And what the girl really wants is for you to be healed!

I read that book a while back.

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P.S. listen to Leo's advice. It's gold.

Agreed.

 

5 hours ago, tsuki said:

"Surrendering" is a very misleading word. A better one is "presence", or "wakefulness", or "being alert". The gateway is through not-knowing.

Ok, I think is mistook observing for analyzing.

[NatureB]

16 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I was already thinking which topics I should discuss with my psychotherapist. That was what I thought too: especially my dysfunctional family and non-emotionally present mother is the cause of this. I acted as my date was my mother and that she would fix all of the things. I did couple of other ridiculous stuff which I'm too ashamed to type here. How did you use MDMA for trauma healing?

MDMA taught me that I need to lighten up on people. It also showed me that I was suppressing my desire for women very strongly. Of course it will be different for you if you decide to do some. But I feel like a new person I feel great. There were other realizations as well but I don't want to enumerate them here.

I am surprised The Truth didn't shake you as hard as it did me. I was floored seeing Neil bare his heart. It was inspiring. If you still own it, there are a ton of book recommendations in the back. Those might help.

[Origins]

You have to get the first premise right: It's a biological game (love comes second/last if any stage not first). Do you really think you'd lead with being an emotional wet rag with that premise? Sorry man, this'll be a tough blow to you. All the best. 

[Proserpina]

Lol. Reminds me of Onision and Shiloh. 

Dear Shiloh,  your gaze is sublime.  Turn it on yourself. 

[Origins]

To add to my previous comment: You want to be brutally honest, but brutally boundaried. Translation = Don't share anything that screws up with the biological game, while only saying things that are truly authentic. That's the balance you want in the beginning if you want purity.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Origins

[Shunyata]

I think we all need to keep in mind that whatever words we say out loud don't ever come back while speaking

Edited October 7, 2020 by Shunyata