Practised brutal honesty with my first FWB/gf

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I don't know how to solve it though. I read several books on it. It seems that going into relationships and letting things come up is the only way to deal with those traumatic/abusive cycles.

Some people on this forum recommended I should focus on enlightenment before relationships. My lack of relationships is poisoning my quality of life, my life purpose and everything else. 

Sometimes I think I just have a low IQ but my problem lack of attention. I can't focus on work when I'm in an emotional roller-coaster. I can't do enlightenment when I'm starving for intimacy and emotional gratification. Am I wrong on this?

Currently I'm reading a book on shadow work and watching some trauma release videos.

@StarStruck You got to see how you are coming across as needy.  Women hate neediness.  Does not matter how strong of a connection that you have with her, once she senses that, she will instinctually back off.  
 

You have to get to the place where you do not need a relationship.  Where you can heal on your own.  Check out these books, the body keeps score, psycho cybernetics.  

[Life]

On 26.9.2020 at 2:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

First rule of dating: Don't say anything negative or serious on the first date. [...] Just be friendly, fun, and chill. If you have to fake it till you make it, do that.

On 26.9.2020 at 2:26 AM, Leo Gura said:

The first month of dating should be all fun and games. No serious talk! No serious talk until you sleep with her at least half a dozen times.

@Leo Gura I think your advice is very practical in order to have success (in the stage Orange style). But I have the feeling, that some of your advice in this thread is partly in contradiction to the advice you give in 

and

I am especially confused about the "No serious talk until you sleep with her at least half a dozen times" part, because this advices to withhold some potential critical information for a rather long time. After some intense sexual adventures the woman may have fallen in love with a fake persona but not the more authentic person. Am I getting something wrong?

Probably stage orange pickup - even the version you criticize in your rant - is totally legitimate and of high value if you are at a low development stage regarding success with women (like being an involuntary virgin).

[josh jones]

he's totally using straight up pickup advice which he claims to be against now. I don't think he's someone to take advice from on this subject. I get the feeling that the bullying tone he is speaking in is more the voice in his own head. It sounds like he didn't really get laid or have relationships till his mid or late 20s, and then he just did by using pickup techniques. Girls can smell it when your trying to use some technique like that...mostly I feel like you need to stop over thinking all of it. Dating is supposed to be fun for both people involved. You're supposed to just hang out to determine if theres chemistry. Honestly Leo here sounds like a douchy horny little boy. I don't know how he possibly has relationships if he acts like this. I've been pretty successful with girls since my teens and I always totally ignored all that pick up shit. Its better that way if you ask me.

[josh jones]

also, has he been off meditating so much that he didn't get the memo that casual homophobia is not cool?

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, StarStruck said:

She opened up a can of worms by dating me as an incel.

Stop framing yourself in this toxic way.

Throw away the Incel identity.

[Jacob Morres]

2 hours ago, josh jones said:

bullying tone

Bit ironic, your tone is definitely condescending 

Also the way you talk about pickup is black and white. 

Dating theory is done differently depending on the person 

It also has helped a lot of people bust limiting beliefs when done right 

It also includes a lot of unique understanding on the psychology of women, men and dating 

It also provides lot of tools like building confidence and charisma, attraction, and authenticity 

Etc. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater 

Also, that's good that you have had successful relationships your whole life without any dating theory. However, not everyone is in the same boat as you. 

Also, I agree with some things you say like not relying on pickup techniques etc.

I think a strong inner game is needed as well but some of the pickup theory i find to be very useful 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[josh jones]

I'm not bullying, I'm calling out what I see. He came off as a homophobic jerk. I'm the same age as Leo and if one of my friends were to talk like that I probably would stop hanging out with them. Also I'm just saying maybe he's not the best person to be asking for advice on the subject because he didn't have experience at that age, and seems maybe he doesn't have much experience to this day to be honest.

Edited September 27, 2020 by josh jones

[StarStruck]

It has been three days since the date and this is what I'm thinking about it. 

• My external negativity and how I behaved during the date was a reflection of my inner world. 
• Instead of being happy with my first date, and see the positives of having my first date, I only saw the negatives
• I have already summed up the negative sides of this date: she rejecting me hurt my ego. And especially her saying I was the first guy she didn't sleep with while going home was a punch in my balls
• Positives of this date: I finally got my first date behind my back. I got a reference experience. I find it easier to talk to other women now. 

Some additional info I held back in this topic

• I have a porn addiction and erectile dysfunction. Some part of me didn't want to have sex that night because I'm not fully recovered and there was a big chance I couldn't perform. My dick felt dead that day. 
• Nofap community said that I should tell her about my erectile dysfunction. I didn't. I only told her about my porn addiction. I expected she would understand it because she is a sexually liberated girl but when I look back she wasn't OK with it. She referred back to it multiple times and was shocked a guy like me would have problems like that
• This woman is highly sexy. I don't want to reveal too much info about her but when you see her she is a sex machine. This girl has all the options and is attracted to bad boys.  I tried to look from her perspective and I understand her completely: she wants a guy who is confident and I'm not. I'm highly traumatized, self doubting, and insecure.
• If I would date her again I don't even know how to act. She says she wants a guy who treats her like a princes. I did. I made her dinner and stuff and she said she never had a treatment like that but when I listen to her stories about her exes she is attracted to bullies and guys who treat her like crap
• Even right now she doesn't give me a lot of attention although she said wants to meet again but I just know for a fact that she keeps contact with guys who know how to be fun and know how to treat her like crap

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop framing yourself in this toxic way.

Throw away the Incel identity.

I know. I don't take on the identity. I just find it very difficult to express myself and explain my situation without using such power words. 

[ColeMC01]

@StarStruck I read your post and understand where you coming from. My advice would be to have a strong support group, good friends and family so that you do not feel the need to make your date a therapist. If you have problems and you do not share them because you have no one to, then you will feel the need to share it with anyone, even your date. Also, trying to solve your inner problems would be a good idea before you start dating. You need to love yourself and make peace with your demons. Relationships with girls will not solve that. I do agree that you should share yourself with your partner BUT doing it on the first date is too much imo. Imagine going out for a beer with someone and you do that, it would be considered a bit weird. That happens after you know the person for a while, same logic for your partner. You can share yourself after you get together, not before. If you do it before it is that you have this internal need to get it out and having a good support circle can help with that. 

[josh jones]

how old are you? You may have said earlier and i missed it, but fairly young I'm guessing. All this shit in your mind is totally normal. That's the first thing. Now, you're referencing some very silly things. Nofap is silly, incel is silly, red pill is silly...all these things are constructs, totally not real in any way. Its healthy to jerk off. And instead of incel you can just say virgin, its not some new thing. Remember girls are just as fucked up as guys. The girl you're seeing is lost in her own confusion which is just as out of touch with reality as yours. To be honest, she kind of seems like she sucks anyway. There's no great way to deal with the angst you're going through other than to.go through it. I recommend meditation. But it won't solve your problems, nothing will, ever. You don't have to fix anything.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by josh jones

[Thestarguitarist14]

38 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

It has been three days since the date and this is what I'm thinking about it. 

• My external negativity and how I behaved during the date was a reflection of my inner world. 
• Instead of being happy with my first date, and see the positives of having my first date, I only saw the negatives
• I have already summed up the negative sides of this date: she rejecting me hurt my ego. And especially her saying I was the first guy she didn't sleep with while going home was a punch in my balls
• Positives of this date: I finally got my first date behind my back. I got a reference experience. I find it easier to talk to other women now. 

Some additional info I held back in this topic

• I have a porn addiction and erectile dysfunction. Some part of me didn't want to have sex that night because I'm not fully recovered and there was a big chance I couldn't perform. My dick felt dead that day. 
• Nofap community said that I should tell her about my erectile dysfunction. I didn't. I only told her about my porn addiction. I expected she would understand it because she is a sexually liberated girl but when I look back she wasn't OK with it. She referred back to it multiple times and was shocked a guy like me would have problems like that
• This woman is highly sexy. I don't want to reveal too much info about her but when you see her she is a sex machine. This girl has all the options and is attracted to bad boys.  I tried to look from her perspective and I understand her completely: she wants a guy who is confident and I'm not. I'm highly traumatized, self doubting, and insecure.
• If I would date her again I don't even know how to act. She says she wants a guy who treats her like a princes. I did. I made her dinner and stuff and she said she never had a treatment like that but when I listen to her stories about her exes she is attracted to bullies and guys who treat her like crap
• Even right now she doesn't give me a lot of attention although she said wants to meet again but I just know for a fact that she keeps contact with guys who know how to be fun and know how to treat her like crap

Yeah man, maybe you should not be dating.  You have major self esteem problems.

 

Check out there six pillars of self esteem.  Start doing the Sedona method to release these negative beliefs.  Do shamanic tapping to release these negative beliefs.  Guided meditations.  By November you will feel way different.

[StarStruck]

@josh jones I'm 31 and I'm not a virgin. I just never had a real gf. 

I will stop using incel vocabulary from now on although it is going to be difficult. 

29 minutes ago, ColeMC01 said:

@StarStruck I read your post and understand where you coming from. My advice would be to have a strong support group, good friends and family so that you do not feel the need to make your date a therapist. If you have problems and you do not share them because you have no one to, then you will feel the need to share it with anyone, even your date. Also, trying to solve your inner problems would be a good idea before you start dating. You need to love yourself and make peace with your demons. Relationships with girls will not solve that. I do agree that you should share yourself with your partner BUT doing it on the first date is too much imo. Imagine going out for a beer with someone and you do that, it would be considered a bit weird. That happens after you know the person for a while, same logic for your partner. You can share yourself after you get together, not before. If you do it before it is that you have this internal need to get it out and having a good support circle can help with that. 

True. I don't have such a support group. I can share stuff with my family but not all. They just know how to deal with it. As for friends: I don't have close friends. I don't know how to make friends. I know how stupid that sounds. 

 

14 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Yeah man, maybe you should not be dating.  You have major self esteem problems.

 

Check out there six pillars of self esteem.  Start doing the Sedona method to release these negative beliefs.  Do shamanic tapping to release these negative beliefs.  Guided meditations.  By November you will feel way different.

It is just my confidence that is the problem. 

She said I look much better than a lot of guys she dated and those guys are slaying she told me. 

She dated total losers too. Why? They were jerks and bullies but fun and treated her like crap. 

I was focusing on the wrong things. It is all about confidence. That is the thing I'm lacking. Confidence in guys is really important for girls. I knew this in theory but now I saw it in practice. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by StarStruck

[Thestarguitarist14]

2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

It is just my confidence that is the problem. 

She said I look much better than some guys she dated and those guys are slaying she told me. 

She dated total losers too. Why? They were jerks and bullies but fun and treated her like crap. 

It is also not something else. Confidence in guys is really important for girls. 

You do not gain confidence from the outside. Trust me.  After doing pick up for years and being able to have one night stands in the clubs, I did not start to have some real confidence until this year.  

Confidence is an inside job.

She has low self esteem.  Only low self esteem women date jerks and bullies.

Don’t waste your time with her.  If she contacts you, fine.  But don’t reach out to her anymore and focus on yourself.  You have to get to a place where you do not care about having a girlfriend.  Then funny enough, you’ll get one.

[josh jones]

oh damn, I thought you were way younger. You absolute need professional therapy. No ifs ands or buts about it. The advice you're getting on here is not suitable to how old you are. You should never let people speak to you the way Leo did in here. Professional therapy, maybe meds. Trust me.

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 minutes ago, josh jones said:

oh damn, I thought you were way younger. You absolute need professional therapy. No ifs ands or buts about it. The advice you're getting on here is not suitable to how old you are. You should never let people speak to you the way Leo did in here. Professional therapy, maybe meds. Trust me.

I don’t know about med, but therapy for sure.   

[diamondpenguin]

That's fuckin hilarious. Leo called him a boy and hes 31.

[StarStruck]

44 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

You do not gain confidence from the outside. Trust me.  After doing pick up for years and being able to have one night stands in the clubs, I did not start to have some real confidence until this year.  

Confidence is an inside job.

She has low self esteem.  Only low self esteem women date jerks and bullies.

Don’t waste your time with her.  If she contacts you, fine.  But don’t reach out to her anymore and focus on yourself.  You have to get to a place where you do not care about having a girlfriend.  Then funny enough, you’ll get one.

I know but some part of me still wants to seek the answers out of myself. I will look into those books and methods. 

 

39 minutes ago, josh jones said:

oh damn, I thought you were way younger. You absolute need professional therapy. No ifs ands or buts about it. The advice you're getting on here is not suitable to how old you are. You should never let people speak to you the way Leo did in here. Professional therapy, maybe meds. Trust me.

I found Leo's advice helpful. I know he has good intentions and his own way of teaching. I wasn't offended for a second. 

Why do you say "oh damn" is my situation that bad? I took therapy couple of times and they weren't that helpful. Perhaps I wasn't very open at that time. I will try again. It is just a huge financial drain but if I have no choice I have no choice. 

[josh jones]

@StarStruck I don't know, you just seemed younger to me. I actually don't know what to tell you. I don't really think about things the way you or people on this forum seem to. I would never let anyone talk to me like that. If someone said that to me in person it would take effort not to punch them in the face. All I can say is I do not recommend pick up stuff one bit, but regarding where you're at, I just don't know how to advise you. Best of luck to you. I say give therapy another go.

[Thestarguitarist14]

23 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

I know but some part of me still wants to seek the answers out of myself. I will look into those books and methods. 

 

You have been doing that and look where there’s has gotten you.  If you keep doing that you’ll be 50 and be suicidal.

Books, therapy, guided meditations, shamanic tapping and etc are here for a reason.  Utilize them.  Don’t let your ego protect something that is not even worth protecting.