Practised brutal honesty with my first FWB/gf

[StarStruck]

Disclaimer: I'm not disappointed about me not getting sex, it was more about her rejecting me than the sex. I'm literally the first guy in her life that she agreed to hook up with and not have sex with. That is a huge blow to my ego.

So today I met my FWB which whom I had contact for 2 months. It started with FWB but at a certain point she wanted more. To be clear, this was the first time I took a girl out and took her home.

I had a huge urge to be honest with her. I'm an incel. I'm 31 years old. Little bit above average looking. 184cm and just sleek looking. We had just a great date. We went drinking and then eating. Nothing was wrong. I could smell sex was possible and then I decided to fuck up my chances for sex. At a certain point I made the decision to be brutally honest. I just told her about my porn addiction. My bad social status/life. And much more. It wasn't even a conscious decision. I just followed my inner "force" and it told me what to do.

What did I want? Did I wanted sex? I can get sex from a prostitute. I didn't want to get physically naked. I wanted to get emotionally naked and boy did I. She opened up too and told about her "sex addiction" on tinder and mental problems. I'm an average looking guy so I don't have the luxury of tinder express but we both went emotionally butt naked on each other.

She admitted she only dated bad boys. I'm not a bad boy. I'm introvert. I did leave a weird impression by talking about nerdy stuff (that I read from books), and some my demeanour she just could read I'm an incel. I'm bad camouflaging it so that was the biggest reason I just told her everything from being an incel, to being a porn addict, to not being very social. Only thing I didn't tell her that she wasn't my first FWB/gf.

This is the point I don't understand:

• She said she won't have sex with my because she loves me. I will be the first guy with whom she hooked up and didn't have sex with!!!!!!!!
• Did I do good by practising brutal honesty? Maybe I should played it safe and just gone for sex instead of practising brutal honesty.
• By practising brutal honesty I discovered that I'm not fooling anybody; I can pull off acting normal guy for couple of hours but eventually my through colors of being an incel shines through

Her not giving me sex was a huge blow to my ego. Especially when she said I will be the first guy with whom she is meeting up and not having sex with. She said; this night was a huge success for her because she managed to not sleep with a guy she is attracted to. She wants long term relationship with me.

As a guy I didn't understand this. I'm happy for her she made a leap in her inner world but it feels like she is using my as a dumping ground for her trauma's by not having sex with me. At the same time I'm thankful for her for meeting me and driving 120 km to my house and 120 km back to her house.

Perhaps she told me she wanted a long term relationship with me (and thus not having sex with me) as an excuse not to have sex with me. I mean she also didn't move towards my advance when I tried to kiss her. I really need some help right now because I'm feeling so bad that she rejected me.

I'm really disorientated what to do now. Should I practise being honest? I notice that I lie a lot about my life and even on this forum. I will work on by honest but it is causing a lot of hurt. Where did I go wrong? I think she will meet me again and have sex with me, but it is not even about that for me any more.  It is about my ego that has been hurt.

At a certain point we had discussion when she said she wouldn't have sex with me. I told her, if I was a bad boy you would fuck me. You only don't want to have sex with me because I showed my sensitive part. Her paradigm was: I don't want to have sex with you because I want to make a leap and not let myself get used. I told her I was happy for her and she broke down in tears (but she still didn't kiss me :s)

I'm not making this topic to rant, get angry at her, get angry at myself or getting angry for not having sex. It is not even about sex for me any more. WTF did I do wrong? Was it necessary to go wrong? It is my perspective. I mean she is the first girl I dated so I must be having a weird perspective on dating and I'm not aware of it.  I don't really know but the only thing I can do is just expect how it went and learn from it.

The advice she gave me was; don't think how to get things; just go and get it.
Do you guys agree with her advice? Perhaps there is a lot of truth in what she said. I was just unloading my emotional baggage on her (my incel stuff) and she unloaded hers on me. We were totally honest to each other. It was a MYSTICAL experience. We cried in each other's arms and walked her to her car, and I let her go into the night..

Edited September 26, 2020 by StarStruck

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

We had just a great date. We went drinking and then eating. Nothing was wrong. I could smell sex was possible and then I decided to fuck up my chances for sex. At a certain point I made the decision to be brutally honest. I just told her about my porn addiction. My bad social status/life. And much more. It wasn't even a conscious decision. I just followed my inner "force" and it told me what to do.

You fucked up real bad here, boy.

What are you thinking being brutally honest on a date? It reeks of neediness and low-value.

The first month of dating should be all fun and games. No serious talk! No serious talk until you sleep with her at least half a dozen times.

Stop using your dates as therapy.

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She said; this night was a huge success for her because she managed to not sleep with a guy she is attracted to. She wants long term relationship with me.

LOL

Because you set the BOYFRIEND FRAME. Now she will withhold pussy from you for days and weeks. If you were fun and playful she would have had sex with you and everything would have been great. But you had to go and act needy and serious with her.

You have to treat sex like it means nothing. Like it's as common as chewing gum to you. When you make it a big deal, so will she.

You'll be lucky if she ever sleeps with you at all. A quality girl would never call you back after that.

Learn proper dating theory.

And don't listen to her stupid self-biased advice.

You fell into every newb trap in the dating book.

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I was just unloading my emotional baggage on her (my incel stuff) and she unloaded hers on me. We were totally honest to each other. It was a MYSTICAL experience. We cried in each other's arms and walked her to her car, and I let her go into the night.

WTF is this gay needy nonsense???

No! No! No!

Keep it light and playful.

P.S. If you haven't had sex with her, she is certainly not your gf.

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura

I know the red pill theory so I know how I fucked up. I should have stayed with fun and games but that is hard when you are an incel. I need to drop that role.

I don't know how to deal with my inner voice popping up bringing up sensitive stuff. I was trying to use no filter because I'm an introvert and I'm thinking too much. I was just trying to be in the moment and expressing what came up during the date. Naturally sensitive stuff came up and I just shared it: bad idea.

In retrospect, this was a awful. In the beginning I had a clear shot for sex and after the shared sensitive stuff she lost interests. I can clearly see this.

I don't know how to deal with a similar situation in the future though. Perhaps having a filter is not bad after all. I just need to learn to regulate the honesty filter better, I guess? I mean, it is hard to have fun and games with her, when trauma is coming up.

Edited September 26, 2020 by StarStruck

[DreamScape]

She likes you but won't date you because low self esteem and she doesn't feel deserving. 

She appreciated the honesty btw, but naturally that puts you into more soul based relationships.

"I don't want to have sex with you because I want to make a leap and not let myself get used. I told her I was happy for her and she broke down in tears (but she still didn't kiss me :s)"

She's naturally gonna stay away btw and it has nothing to do with you

 

"So today I met my FWB which whom I had contact for 2 months. It started with FWB but at a certain point she wanted more. To be clear, this was the first time I took a girl out and took her home."

In which case I agree with leo at the bottom

Was it really not worth it? Or was this unique experience that you'll never get again better than sex that youll have sooo many chances to have. IMO I value the experience 

 

"I think she will meet me again and have sex with me," she would. But youll naturally have to change the flow of the relationship. Make sure you know what you want. Naturally now she's gonna wanna be open, so honor that. 

 

Men seem to guide relationships 

Edited September 26, 2020 by DreamScape

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@Leo Gura

I know the red pill theory so I know how I fucked up.

This is not a matter of Red Pill theory.

You're just acting needy.

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I don't know how to deal with my inner voice popping up bringing up sensitive stuff. I was trying to use no filter because I'm an introvert and I'm thinking too much. I was just trying to be in the moment and expressing what came up during the date. Naturally sensitive stuff came up and I just shared it.

Keep the needy part of your mind shut when you are with this girl. You should be focused on flirting, sharing fun stories, and seduction.

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In retrospect, this was a bad idea. In the beginning I had a clear shot for sex and after the shared sensitive stuff she lost interests.

Of course she did. Because you demonstrated that you are a weak, wounded guy who wants to use her as your emotional tampon.

A girl wants an emotionally strong guy who she can use as her emotional tampon. You flipped the roles so she lost attraction.

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I don't know how to deal with a similar situation in the future though. Perhaps having a filter is not bad after all. I just need to learn to regulate the honesty filter better, I guess? I mean, it is hard to have fun and games with her, when trauma is coming up.

It's all about timing.

You can be emotionally vulnerable and serious with a girl after she is your girlfriend. Which means you must first have sex with her a dozen times. THEN you can cry together and it will be no problem. But not on the first date, for fuck's sake.

First rule of dating: Don't say anything negative or serious on the first date. No whining, no complaining, no blaming, no bitching, no crying, no victim stories, no emotional outbursts, no therapy sessions, no weirdness, no secret confessionals, no revealing skeletons from your closest. Just be friendly, fun, and chill. If you have to fake it till you make it, do that.

[StarStruck]

@DreamScape @Leo Gura this was really my first real date. I was really blind so I'm not kicking myself too much. It is just so typical of me to fuck up another "first time" of something. From dozens of guys; I'm the guy who fucks it up with this girl. Damn, that hurts. I'm not going to lie.

When I step back and look back, I'm just thankful for the reference experience. It exposed my shadow parts. I mean, she could have chosen not to come at all. She drove to me and back which took 2 hours of her time. I got my first date behind my back.

I just need to learn how to have fun and games with girls and not be serious. I mean, to be honest, I tried to be just fun and games but one thing lead to another and I turned into a bitch to be honest. I can kind of get she didn't want to fuck me. This might be the reason I don't have a lot of friends too; I'm taking stuff too serious and not having fun.

To be fair; at I moment when we are laying down on the sofa she was teasing me and I was teasing her back. I told her "fuck you", and she told me "fuck me then". I missed that window of opportunity. 

At this point I don't even care about sex. I need to learn to be a strong man. Sex will just be a product of being a strong man.

Edited September 26, 2020 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

@DreamScape I appreciate the experience.

For the record:

• I didn't intend to share personal sensitive topics; it just happened; she teased it out (I know it sounds weird)

This girl is a smart girl. She wants to become a surgeon. She had a lot of boyfriends so I don't really have intension of wifing her up.

This whole interaction just made me doubt myself. I can't really be myself because being myself means fucking up.

Just having fun and games for the first dozen dates; it is easily said, as an incel it is not easily carried out. I don't know how to do just fun and games.

 

[Thestarguitarist14]

Women today are twisted man.  You have be detached in order to get anywhere with them nowadays.  Anytime I have been honest with a woman it’s whom I was just getting to know (or even knew for a while) they backed off.  Most women have low self esteem, so if you come at them like that, they more often then not cannot handle it.

 

If you want her as a fwb, only focus on having fun with her.  You should only be taking her out to dinner, light fun conversations, then taking her back to your place for a sleepover, feed her in the morning and tell her you got things to do.  She has to be the one chasing you, not the other way around. 
 

You got to protect your heart because a woman will not think twice about ripping it to shreds.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[Proserpina]

2 hours ago, DreamScape said:

She likes you but won't date you because low self esteem and she doesn't feel deserving. 

She's naturally gonna stay away btw and it has nothing to do with you.

As a girl,  likely this.  

[wavydude]

I'm gonna say that you didn't necessarily fucked it up.

Did it feel good and liberating to be brutally honest ? Did you feel empowered after ?

Maybe if you would bullshit your way into sex you would feel good for getting laid, but you wouldn't build any deeper bound it would be just casual sex. 

Maybe it was a good stepping stone for you and after some time you will start to realize that your insecurities about being an incel are thoughts and perspectives that's you are creating and you will be able to drop them and be truly confident.

You had cool "mystical experience" with her I would say that's better than just getting casual sex. She probably had sex with dozens of guys but probably never had conversation like with you. If she won't have sex with you whatever, trust me there are plenty of girls who will have sex with you if you show some traces of confidence and go straight to the point.

But also be a realist and don't think you will get plenty of sex by being emotional tampon.

Don't feel bad for being recejted it's not you just the attitude you showed. You won't get sex addicted girl who only date "bad boys" by being emotional with her, she just doesn't work like that. It's like trying to ram square into circle hole, it will never work nothing to do with you. 

Like modern day raper/philosophers Future said "She belongs to the streets" ?

[Javfly33]

Shit happens dude @StarStruck Everybody do shit wrong in the first date. Don´t see it as a "fuck up" rather see it as the first step of learning.

Real learning has to come from somewhere, and it comes from real world experience and real lost opportunitties, not from watching youtube videos.

[hamedsf]

[Globalcollective]

@StarStruck yeah it may seem sucky but @Leo Gura is dead right on everything he says. You have to keep dates light and playful for a few weeks/months and get sex out the way before you start getting heavy like that. Ive had my fair share of dates over the years and this has rang true everytime. When I started getting really good at dates I then got a GF and started focising on my spiritual life. Then when I became single again I thought I would be developed enough to be able to be way more vulnerable on first dates ect and it just isn't the best appraoch, sometimes girls are cool with it you have to feel it out but for you, your better off learning how to be a man and sexually escalate. 

Stop identifying with being an Incel too, never look at the shit again thats also a massive part of your problem. 

[StarStruck]

@wavydude @Proserpina You were right. This morning I got a message with her saying it was a nice date and that we didn't match on points, but she could be open to meet again (perhaps). So it is very likely she doesn't want to meet again.

Anyway, in this topic I got some real good advice. I appreciate it a lot. I couldn't sleep a lot last night and this topic gave me perspective. I just need to accept what happened and learn the lessons:

• Just focus on fun & games during the first dozen times
• Just fit in; don't bring up trauma's or any other kind of negativity
• Empathy for myself; meet myself at where I'm.
• Not be creepy or a weirdo

Only way to be that is just to expose myself to social situations more.

Extra info: I know how stupid this is going to sound. This is something I didn't mention in my OP. I smoked weed last night and that kind of made my creepy/weird. When I read what I wrote last night and think about how I acted, I'm kind of ashamed.

[wavydude]

@StarStruck

Ye just take it easy man. You not gonna become chad who has tons of women over night (maybe you don't even want to), you had an experience and you can learn from it nothing wrong with that. Just experiment, do what feels right and don't ever be ashamed of who you are. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

The problem is that this is an insult to gay people.

Nice try, but not in this context.

If you start crying on a first date, the girl will treat you like a gay dude. She's not looking for a gay dude to fuck her. She has plenty of gay friends already. Instant friend-zone, legs closed, jayjay dry.

Dating is not some platonic politically correct activity. We are talking about how to make her pussy wet. That's what dating is fundamentally about. Learn which things make a girl wet and which make her dry.

[StarStruck]

I didn't find it offensive that Leo called me gay. I felt extremely vulnerable because of the cannabis and I acted like a weak man. All my pain bodies were activated. I don't what I was thinking but this is so typical me fucking up a clear shot. I'm really trying hard to not beat myself up about it. This girl was such a stunner but she admittedly has psychological issues and only is attracted to bad boys. She ain't going to fuck a weak ass man.

[electroBeam]

I think being brutally honest is great. Sure you might not get laid, and have your ego propped up as much by being genuine and honest then if you follow pickup stuff, but by being brutally honest, you get to feel good in your body, knowing you've lived up to the genuine principals that you strongly value, and haven't done anything with bad intentions or karmic. 

The problem is, for brutal honesty to get you some pussy, you need to do lots and lots of shadow work first. You need to show your REAL self, not the fucked up one you're identifying with (delusional self). The fake self is the one turning her off. The needy addicted to porn one. That's not your real self.

A lot of people on here are telling you to just read books on how to make women wet and then follow them. That's a lazy strategy. That's the strategy you do when you're too lazy to be your real self. Its a short term, depressing strategy. 

Try and do shadow work on yourself and become more than just a mere human. Feel good in your bones first. Feel like you're on psychedelics all the time, then go up to these women. 

[Dany Balan]

Friend,don't be so harsh on you,but if you want to be brutally honest do that in front of a therapist! Practically in what you shared with us you were talking from a green stage on the spiral to a red stage female! Red will always take advantage of green! 

Brutal honesty is a bad thing in my book, 99.999% of the people you are brutally honest with will manipulate and take advantage of your vulnerabilities with no remorse,even those you call best friends! Being brutally honest is a bad thing because 1. Nobody cares about the other person,each is only concerned about his own survival.

2. as i said earlier,not only in dates,but everyone you are bruttaly honest with will take advantage of you!!

And regarding that girl.... mate you can find better girls,never date girls that had a promiscuous past. Its going to end in suffering for you. Try to find a girl that hasn't been with bad boys,a nice religious girl,that respects you and that hasn't been damaged by mean men in her past!

 

Even though Leo doesn't like my way of viewing the world,I am talking from a purely stage blue perspective!!! To me all that green shit nonesense doesn't fly!

[Parththakkar12]

@Leo Gura Are you guiding @StarStruck to have one-night stands, multiple partners or the one serious relationship?