"choice"!

[Someone here]

  I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I've been having a lot of conversations recently about "choice". People arguing with me how I can "choose to let go of negative thoughts".      A negative thought can go. But you can't make it go.   

Alright this a open thread. Go ahead lol  please explain how is it possible to not think about a pink elephant! Lol

  . The fundamental misunderstanding is this.. "you" do not think your thoughts.. You don't create them or let them go. They just arise and go. "you" yourself is a thought that arises and goes. 

. What is the next thought in your mind??   You don't know lol . You don't know what will your mind think next moment. It can be a thought about aliens.. About Donald trump..  Or About what are you gonna eat for dinner tonight.

Just talking at the level of thought process.. Because the glitch is so clear at this level. Unlike at the level of action.. Where it does "seem" that you have more control over your actions than you do on your thoughts. When actually you don't. 

@Nahm @Mu_ @arlin @PeaceOut96

[arlin]

so, this doesnt change the fact that if i want to improve the situation it can be done because there is no free will about that either so saying nothing can be done is also contradictory.

 

It can be positive for people seeking enlightenment but negative for me that i don't give a ffff about this because it's too advanced. i just want to live a normal life yet here i am dealing with this.

so what do i do to improve the situation?

Because it's like a paraoia for me...

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, arlin said:

so, this doesnt change the fact that if i want to improve the situation it can be done because there is no free will about that either so saying nothing can be done is also contradictory.

 

You can only do what you end up Doing. ?

Stuff can be done and will be done via the body-mind.  This is not to be confused with "choice".   See choice implies a you and two simultaneous events. Choice A and choice B... Let's say you want to choose between A and B... That means you must have two instances of existence at the same time.. To evaluate two different instances at the same moment.. This is impossible.. When you are aware of A you are not aware of B.. When you are aware of B you are not aware of A. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Someone here

[Mu_]

@Someone here I’m pretty sure if I pulled a gun on you and said you make one more post and I’ll shoot you and your family, a miracle of a choice in you will arise and you’ll magically seem to make that choice to not do so. 

What does his mean, lol.......  well it’s not as clear.   

I think what is important here is keeping this question with in the context of what you want because otherwise it gets to abstract. 

From past posts it seems like what you have begun to realize and want to be different is in relation to how it feels to be in a body and all the ideas tied to this pain/uncomfortable happening. 

A saying I like a lot is pain is a wonderful push or creator of new solutions and approaches. What this means for you is perhaps you haven’t suffered enough for a solution to arise, one of which I’ve asked you to be open to, that perhaps there is  something that resembles choice which you’ve claimed is a illusion or not real.  Something that if seen would allow you to go hey I’m done believing these ideas of the body and open to new ideas or no ideas about ‘the body’. Until then suffering will remain with you claiming I can’t do anything about it, which is just as much a lie that your holding as truth. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Mu_ said:

I’m pretty sure if I pulled a gun on you and said you make one more post and I’ll shoot you and your family, a miracle of a choice in you will arise and you’ll magically seem to make that choice to not do 

LMAO ?

See that's cause and  effect. No choice here. You are affirming exactly what I'm saying 

3 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

From past posts it seems like what you have begun to realize and want to be different is in relation to how it feels to be in a body and all the ideas tied to this pain/uncomfortable happening. 

A saying I like a lot is pain is a wonderful push or creator of new solutions and approaches. What this means for you is perhaps you haven’t suffered enough for a solution to arise, one of which I’ve asked you to be open to, that perhaps there is  something that resembles choice which you’ve claimed is a illusion or not real.  Something that if seen would allow you to go hey I’m done believing these ideas of the body and open to new ideas or no ideas about ‘the body’. Until then suffering will remain with you claiming I can’t do anything about it, which is just as much a lie that your holding as truth. 

Nah this isn't in relation to that. Since awakening to no-self and people arguing with me about choice. And I'm always replying "there is no seperate self to make choices". It puts people off.. So does that mean you can't  do shit? Ofcourse you can you've been doing it all along. But how is it viewed as "choice". Guess just to Cleary explain my thoughts here. 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Great thread, more to come I’m sure. I’d first consider the ‘order’ of intention. Is intention prior to arising thoughts, or are arising thoughts prior to intention? It can be a tricky inquiry / inspection. The forum serves as a wonderfully blatant (and innocent) example. When you look at posts, look at the intention. Feel it. Is someone commenting to help someone liberate, to ‘feel better by putting someone else down’,  to exercise ‘how much higher conscious’ they are, etc? Do you see the difference in intention behind the communications?  If you do, ‘look’ at thoughts in that same lens. When a thought arises, consider, what is the intention and how is it related to  this thought, as in, the thought that presently arose. 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Is intention prior to arising thoughts, or are arising thoughts prior to intention?

I don't know. The distinction is not clear to me. It's hard to separate them. 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

It is a difficult aspect to articulate communicatively because it is intimate, easily well hidden, and commonly known only of ‘one’s self’ via direct experience. To see another’s intentions kind of requires the ability to actually be the other person and see through the conceptual aspects of ‘others’ existentially. 

Bit of a ‘broken record’ I know....but the utilization of a dreamboard brings much clarity in terms of the visceral vs cerebral in matters of intention. One see one’s intentions through removing layers of cover stories regarding their own intentions, perhaps merging honesty or sincerity and the portrayal vs actuality of their desires. Something most are not in any hurry to do. Nor does anyone need to, imo. 

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

LMAO ?

See that's cause and  effect. No choice here. You are affirming exactly what I'm saying 

Nah this isn't in relation to that. Since awakening to no-self and people arguing with me about choice. And I'm always replying "there is no seperate self to make choices". It puts people off.. So does that mean you can't  do shit? Ofcourse you can you've been doing it all along. But how is it viewed as "choice". Guess just to Cleary explain my thoughts here. 

What is no-self if there isn’t anyone or anything there to recognize anything or make a claim that there is no choice?  Careful of what you believe, don’t believe and claim is absolute, it may seal your fate to suffering that could of been related to in other ways, hadn’t such rigid beliefs been let be. 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

What is no-self if there isn’t anyone or anything there to recognize anything or make a claim that there is no choice?  

Ofcourse it Can be a belief. But in my case it's not.  Well it's a recognition that you don't exist lol. Simple as that. Unbelievable as that.  A recognition when you focus awareness upon itself.. That there is no one here and never was. Then you can get up and go about your day. Realizing it. 

 

[Moksha]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Ofcourse it Can be a belief. But in my case it's not.  Well it's a recognition that you don't exist lol. Simple as that. Unbelievable as that.  A recognition when you focus awareness upon itself.. That there is no one here and never was. Then you can get up and go about your day. Realizing it. 

The little you does exist, but only in a transient relative sense. In 100 years, the little you will be long gone. The part of you that is Source will always be. And what is Source? Consciousness that is conscious of itself.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Moksha

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The little you does exist, but only in a transient relative sense. In 100 years, the little you will be long gone. The part of you that is Source will always be. And what is Source? Consciousness that is conscious of itself.

Yeah kinda.  I put it as the seperate self VS the true Self. The seperate self as a finite fixed form is not real. The Self which is simply everything and nothing is real and unreal. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Someone here

[Moksha]

A great quote from the introduction in "A Course in Miracles":

 “Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God."

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Moksha said:

A great quote from the introduction in "A Course in Miracles":

 “Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God."

I like it 

[Bulgarianspirit]

You are infinity aware of a particular aspect of yourself subjectively... But within infinity it has limites finite choices,as it is one of those limited body minds, imagined by god.

I can say it like this as well,you are awareness aware of a being that seems to be making choices, however any choice the being makes is predetermined as a reaction,to the being's environment,upbringing, education and other factors, decided for the being before it was born. The causal link being longer than words satisfy, the being seems to be devoid of free will and choice.

Furthermore the being doesn't seem to have control over likes and dislikes, thoughts, behaviour patterns and actions, as they are also related to everything surrounding it.

Everyone begins at 0, empty a baby yet they are shaped by their surroundings. Its fairly safe to say if you switch a serial killer's upbringing he could be a model citizen.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Mu_]

54 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Ofcourse it Can be a belief. But in my case it's not.  Well it's a recognition that you don't exist lol. Simple as that. Unbelievable as that.  A recognition when you focus awareness upon itself.. That there is no one here and never was. Then you can get up and go about your day. Realizing it. 

 

You see the problem here. You claim that you focused awareness upon itself and realized no one is there and never was and that choice isn’t real, but yet you claim your not there. 

So what’s going on then. 

 

[seeking_brilliance]

In a world of no separation, why must we keep making distinctions between doing /not doing, little self/other self (that' supposedly more real) ,  choice/no choice, etc.  It's not separated, it's meshed. 

We don't need more knowledge about this. Asking anyone to explain it is spinning wheels. Instead ask, 'how can I become aware of this myself?'  If you can grasp it intuitively, there's no reason to put into words. No need to argue about it.  Those who argue can be shown the question-- 'how can I become aware of this for myself?' 

 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Bulgarianspirit said:

Furthermore the being doesn't seem to have control over likes and dislikes, thoughts, behaviour patterns and actions, as they are also related to everything surrounding it.

Everyone begins at 0, empty a baby yet they are shaped by their surroundings. Its fairly safe to say if you switch a serial killer's upbringing he could be a model citizen.

True. Couldn't agree more. 

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

In a world of no separation, why must we keep making distinctions between doing /not doing, little self/other self (that' supposedly more real) ,  choice/no choice, etc.  It's not separated, it's meshed. 

1) It's human to think divisively rather than coherently.

2) Most spiritual wisdom makes such distinctions (Bhagavad Gita, Bible, etc.). Not because the distinctions actually exist, but because humans think in this way and speaking their language can point them to the higher truth of Unity.

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

You see the problem here. You claim that you focused awareness upon itself and realized no one is there and never was and that choice isn’t real, but yet you claim your not there. 

So what’s going on then. 

 

It's hard to put into words. Yeah it's paradoxical and mindfucky.  There is no here as in no one separate..no separate limited form.  Who you think you are. Right?  You don't think of yourself as infinite boundless space or awareness no?  You think you are some kind of being. Some kind of limited "thing". You think you are a human. A man. A thinker that is seperate from thoughts. A doer that is seperate from deeds. Well that's simply illusion.   

Edited September 25, 2020 by Someone here