What is the experience of infinity?

[Someone here]

@Moksha  As in bless.. Joy.. Peace.. Love... Etc there is anguish.. Suffering.. Death.. Sickness.. Hate... Murder.. Rape.. Covid.. Poverty.. Injustice.. Pain.. Etc.  These are conditions.. These are not the absolute yet they are included.   So you can say that peace and love are the absolute in the sense that they are included.. But they aren't the whole thing. Just in the same way I can say an ant is God.. An ant is the absolute. That's true its included. But it's not the whole of God. God is also tigers.. Lions.. Snakes.. Spiders.. Sharks.. Humans etc. 

[Moksha]

@Someone here Is God ego? Evil? Illusion? Do Jesus or Buddha possess any of these qualities? Isn't enlightenment the process of disidentifying from illusion?

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light. (Matthew 6:22)

What do you think this means?

[Someone here]

@Moksha I do not follow any scriptures or authority figures.  So please there is no need to bring up various sacred quotes or to appeal to buddha Jesus etc. 

21 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 Is God ego? Evil? Illusion? 

Yes. 

 

21 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Isn't enlightenment the process of disidentifying from illusion?

Enlightenment is a pointer. What does it point to? 

Relative and absolute are pointers. What do they point to? 

No-self and Self are pointers. What do they point to? 

The ultimate teaching is all things are inherently and ultimately empty.. Empty  of reality.  So there is no relative or absolute.. No fake self and no true self. No enlightenment and no delusion.  Everything is ultimately empty.  And that.. Is enlightenment. The recognition of the inherent emptiness. The recognition itself does not matter. Because it is empty. That's why you are already enlightened. You are not to discover your emptiness. You are empty of any reality. Here and now. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Someone here

[Moksha]

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The ultimate teaching is all things are inherently and ultimately empty.

You seem to accept this teaching as valid, while eschewing the other teachings of the masters. If all things are one, wouldn't their other teachings also be true?

Emptiness is translated as spaciousness. And while it is no-thing, it enables all-things. Here's one of my favorite passages on the utility of spaciousness:

Quote

Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub; It is the center hole that makes it useful. Shape clay into a vessel; It is the space within that makes it useful. Cut doors and windows for a room; It is the holes which make it useful. Therefore profit comes from what is there; Usefulness from what is not there. (Tao Te Ching - Chapter 11)

Edited September 27, 2020 by Moksha

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Someone here Evil is just limited good. Infinity necessitates finity, and good necessitates evil. Yes, truth is absolute.

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You seem to accept this teaching as valid, while eschewing the other teachings of the masters. If all things are one, wouldn't their other teachings also be true?

I don't accept this as a teaching because some enlightened guy said it. I became directly conscious of it.  I'm conscious of the absolute truth. and it's nothing.  Nothing is without distinctions. It has no inherent distinctions. If you imagine it as love and peace.. It is. If you imagine it as misery and evil.. It is.  But ultimately it is just nothing.. Other than what you imagine it is. 

 

20 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Evil is just limited good. Infinity necessitates finity, and good necessitates evil. Yes, truth is absolute.

Actually there aren't any inherent goodness or evil in anything. It's all in your head.

  The absolute is nothing. Nothing can appear as anything. It appeared  to Jesus as love. It appeared to buddha as silent formlessness. It appeared to Mohammed as an ultimate dominant force with infinite power. It appeared  to Krishna as all formed things.   That's the manifesting aspect. The Godhead.. The ultimate reality in it's purest actual eternal unchanging beingness is just pure nothingness. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Someone here

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Someone here The dreamer, AKA the divine void, creates one system of reality. Again, I said infinity necessitates finity, and good necessitates bad. The good NEEDS the bad, so of course the amounts of good are relative. The composition of all bad culminates up to the ultimate understanding. It's a story. It's a bittersweet dream. And it has good guys and bad guys and ups and downs and is very beautiful because of this. You are creating a false distinction between objective and relative morality. They are the same!

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@Someone here The dreamer, AKA the divine void, creates one system of reality. Again, I said infinity necessitates finity, and good necessitates bad. The good NEEDS the bad, so of course the amounts of good are relative. The composition of all bad culminates up to the ultimate understanding. It's a story. It's a bittersweet dream. And it has good guys and bad guys and ups and downs and is very beautiful because of this. You are creating a false distinction between objective and relative morality. They are the same!

I agree with you if I understand correctly. I would add as I said it's neither good or bad as in inherently. Both good and bad are the mind's projection. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Someone here Infinity/emptiness has properties. Leo thinks one of them is Love. I think one of them is good. We all agree one of its properties is the emergence of some sort of phenomena, even if you think that phenomena is illusory. So we agree there is properties there. It's not just my ego/body that sees good as virtuous or approved. "God" sees it that way as well due to the self-acceptance and Love of "God." So, the True Will of divinity is Love of everything, even shortages of Love. This is absolute. The shortage is where the story comes into play, the realization of the goodness of more truth.

[Moksha]

@Someone here Emptiness is no-thing.

Intelligence is no-thing.

Love is no-thing.

Creativity is no-thing.

Awareness is no-thing.

[Someone here]

@AtheisticNonduality @Moksha this is getting too abstract.  Let's ground it more to earth.  Do you love disgusting stuff?  No?  Then how can you say love is an absolute or encompasses everything? Here there is an instance of your life when you didn't love something. Do you feel peace.. Joy.. Bliss.. Harmony.. Good.. All the time?  Ofcourse no. You feel good. But then comes times when you feel like shit. So how can goodness be an absolute?   If it's absolute it doesn't come and go. It's always the same.  What is always the same?    Nothing.  Tada! Lol 

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm conscious of the absolute truth. and it's nothing.

I have the same realization but it's a problem with that: the illusion. The illusion isn't no-thing, even if the base is the void ,the illusion exist, only as an illusion, ok, but exist in all his wonder. Realize the void, and later do walk In the country and realize the wonder. What is this?. So maybe you, and me, still need deeper realizations

[Member]

Nothing = everything

[Moksha]

@Someone here Enlightenment is an ever-deepening state of awareness. Very few realize samadhi perpetually. It can come and go. Once it is experienced as a permanent state, sada, the master is in complete spiritual freedom. You've expressed that you don't accept spiritual wisdom outside of your own experience, but this says it better than I can:

Quote

When meditation is mastered, the mind is unwavering like the flame of a lamp in a windless place. In the still mind, in the depths of meditation, the Self reveals itself. Beholding the Self by means of the Self, an aspirant knows the joy and peace of complete fulfillment. Having attained that abiding joy beyond the senses, revealed in the stilled mind, he never swerves from the eternal truth. He desires nothing else, and cannot be shaken by the heaviest burden of sorrow. (Bhagavad Gita 6:19)

It's not that you start loving disgusting stuff. You still see all of the ugliness and unconsciousness of the world. But your mind's flame is no longer shaken by it. Love is absolute. The Self is absolute. But for most of us the relationship with Love and the Self is ephemeral. Once we have broken all attachments of the conditioned mind, relinquished all aversions and desires, and surrendered ourselves fully to the Self that is the present moment, we attain nirvana, or the state of abiding joy and peace. You only need a taste of this state to want more of it. It's like eating substantial food or drinking clear water for the first time. You realize that you've been subsisting on junk food up to that point.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Moksha

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I have the same realization but it's a problem with that: the illusion. The illusion isn't no-thing, even if the base is the void ,the illusion exist, only as an illusion, ok, but exist in all his wonder. Realize the void, and later do walk In the country and realize the wonder. What is this?. So maybe you, and me, still need deeper realizations

Deeper realizations?  What is deeper than nothing? What is beyond nothing? What could be  more fundamental than nothing? If you haven't reached nothing yet you haven't reached the end. Dig deeper. 

The country is nothing. Where is the country occurring? Where is the universe itself occurring? Where is the present moment occurring?  It's occurring here nowhere at the middle of nothing. Which is the center of your being. The groundless ground.  

Again it's up to you if you are a seeker of the truth.. You can focus on Maya.. The illusory mirages of the world of forms.. Or you can focus inwards..you can focus on that which doesn't come and go and discover the ultimate reality.   

Edited September 28, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

@Moksha no that's a misunderstanding.  You don't abide in eternal peace when you're enlightened. You are eternal peace at all times. Your true self is peace itself. You don't experience peace as an object. If you still here as an ego to experience stuff outside yourself then you are not enlightened. You still in duality.   

The realization of nonduality is the most radical thing that can ever happen to "you". You will literally die. With all seriousness in the world. You as a separate individual will die permanently. There will be no longer any difference between what you see and you.. You and what you touch.. There will be longer a difference between you and the entire universe. You will disappear as a center of experience. And will become experience itself.  You already are but the illusion of ego is veiling this.  People don't appreciate how radical this is. 

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Deeper realizations?  What is deeper than nothing? What is beyond nothing? What could be  more fundamental than nothing?

I realized the void doing 5 meo, 2 times, no-thing and no time. But who was realising the no-thing? It's the deeper that I meant, but maybe I'm wrong. I realized the no time and after I realized how Maya was constructing. Who constructed Maya? There is more to see I think, maybe you are too fast thinking that you get the deepest realization

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You as a separate individual will die permanently. There will be no longer any difference between what you see and you.. You and what you touch.. There will be longer a difference between you and the entire universe. You will disappear as a center of experience. And will become experience itself. 

Really good description, but it isn't nothing. I understand that in deep it's a void. Absolute no-thing. But must be something, or that no-thing must have any creative property. But I didn't perceived nothing except void, and that I and all was a transparent illusion

Edited September 28, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Someone here Yes, you are peace. You are love. You are joy. If you have experienced that, you are on the awakening path.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Moksha

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I realized the void doing 5 meo, 2 times, no-thing and no time. But who was realising the no-thing? It's the deeper that I meant, but maybe I'm wrong. I realized the no time and after I realized how Maya was constructing. Who constructed Maya? There is more to see I think, maybe you are too fast thinking that you get the deepest realization

LOL the realizations have no end.  It's just there is something that is realizing all realizations but itself isn't a realization. 

@Moksha careful. It doesn't mean you Will experience peace. If peace is an experience you still in ego consciousness.  To put it shortly.. If you still there as ego.. Peace will be an experience.. An experience that comes and goes.  If you die as an ego.. You are peace itself. Because all boundaries have collapsed.  So you can't experience eternal peace. You have to die and then you will become eternal peace. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Someone here