Does power corrupt absolutely?

[Consept]

So was watching 'The Vow' which is a doc series on HBO about the cult Nxivm. Couple things came to mind 1. How this Actualized hasnt become a cult yet im shocked by and 2. Is it possible for anyone to hold so much power over other people and not be corrupted in some way? 

The human is an animal and as such theres so many desires and wants and needs. What i found interesting about the nxivm cult was that it targeted people who had all their survival needs met and then some, so they were taken in because the cult offered them some kind of life purpose, which goes to show how much of a drive for a life purpose is within all of us. So the leader, although seemingly well intentioned eventually gave in to his base desires and started manipulating the female members into having sex with him and basically whatever he wanted from them. This seems to be the usual way it goes, in a way its a shame because it would be great to have a community of people that were pushing themselves and having some kind of shared higher purpose. But is this even possible with an all powerful leader? Will the temptation always be there, whether its money or sex or whatever. 

I came to the conclusion that, there could be a leader but they wouldve had to transcend all material desires, so they would genuinely not feel the need to manipulate people or even have power over others, they also would not need money. I would like to think there are people like this such as Sadhguru and Mooji but who knows maybe something will come out about them. The other option is that it would have to be a flat system so no one has more power than anyone else, but most likely a leader will emerge or there could be debates on who has more power, so again you would need a group of people who have transcended their desires otherwise the problem could be worse. 

Any thoughts?

[Osaid]

Power itself does not corrupt. It just creates more potential for corruption. You yourself have to already be corrupt for the power to be used in a corrupt way. This is why people can have a lot of power and still do good with it. It just depends on your level of development.

When a corrupt person has no means of pursuing their corruption, they won't seem corrupt until they get enough power to do so.

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Power itself does not corrupt. It just creates more potential for corruption. You yourself have to already be corrupt for the power to be used in a corrupt way. This is why people can have a lot of power and still do good with it. It just depends on your level of development.

When a corrupt person has no means of pursuing their corruption, they won't seem corrupt until they get enough power to do so.

Do you not think there have been instances of people going into things with good intentions only to later be corrupted when they started to get power? 

[Osaid]

59 minutes ago, Consept said:

Do you not think there have been instances of people going into things with good intentions only to later be corrupted when they started to get power? 

Self-deception. It's easy to say you have good intentions when you don't have the capabilities to pursue bad intentions. People will go in with good intentions but the ego is perfectly capable of pursuing bad intentions under the guise of good intentions. That's what the ego has been doing since day 1. They tell themselves they won't do it but when the opportunity presents itself they do. But first, the ego has to come up with some sort of reason to justify it, or else they won't be able to do it without feeling guilty. Classic ego tactic.

It's a classic trope, someone "innocent" gets power and then "becomes corrupt". It's just that the leap in power is too great and they are not responsible enough to handle it. The power does not corrupt them or anything like that, it's just that they were never developed enough to handle such a high level of responsibility. 

Saying you won't do something is different from saying you won't do something when you actually have the power to do that thing. The ego will slowly come up with reasons once you are actually presented with the opportunity and persuade you into doing it. "it's not that bad" "you deserve this power" etc.

Power simply presents the opportunity for corruption and the ego takes it. There is nothing about power alone that is telling you to use it for evil. It's all ego.

Something funny I just realized while writing this is the fact that people blame power for corruption when it is in fact ego. And you know what the ego loves to do? Blame things other than itself.

Reminds me of the quote: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Edited September 24, 2020 by Osaid

[Preety_India]

I think it actually depends where the power actually lies. When power resides in the hands of the conscious, it is usually used in the best possible ways to achieve the best possible outcomes. 

When people who are not mentally equipped to deal with the consequences and risks associated with power, are made powerful, they will cause disruption with their power. 

The problem in the world is that power has mostly been taken and not given and usually its been taken by force, coercion, baiting or manipulation. The people who use such means to get power are obviously not the ones with the best intentions. So when they get power, they used it to oppress rather than liberate. 

Power is better earned than snatched. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

God has infinite power and is infinitely good.

But that's only possible because God is infinitely selfless.

Corruption is simply selfishness.

[Consept]

18 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Something funny I just realized while writing this is the fact that people blame power for corruption when it is in fact ego. And you know what the ego loves to do? Blame things other than itself.

Interesting take, i think the ego will always find away out or an excuse, i will say that im not sure the corrupted person always blames the power itself, usually its other peoples take on it. To blame the power or to give some kind of real answer would need some self reflection, usually the corrupted person will stick to their guns or give a forced apology. Even in the cases of Weinstein and Cosby, theyve never come out and admitted things and then reflected on it. I would love to hear someone like that or the nxvim leader come out and give an honest account of what was really going on in their head but you dont tend to get that. It would follow that if the ego is that strong in them why would it stop at getting caught

 

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The problem in the world is that power has mostly been taken and not given and usually its been taken by force, coercion, baiting or manipulation. The people who use such means to get power are obviously not the ones with the best intentions. So when they get power, they used it to oppress rather than liberate. 

This is true, i think really a leader should be reluctant but take power on a 'if i dont do it someone corrupted will come in' kinda vibe 

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God has infinite power and is infinitely good.

But that's only possible because God is infinitely selfless.

Corruption is simply selfishness.

Could we get to a stage where we are all selfless? Another problem that occured to me is most corrupt leaders will get voted in because the voter is voting in their self interest, so we get the leaders that are reflected back at us 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

Could we get to a stage where we are all selfless?

Sure, but you'd be dead.

[Osaid]

25 minutes ago, Consept said:

will say that im not sure the corrupted person always blames the power itself, usually its other peoples take on it.

Yep. The corrupted person actually doesn't even think he is corrupt, which is why he is corrupt in the first place.

Even though this is about the view of other people and not the corrupt person itself, I still think ego applies here. I think saying "power corrupts people" is much more palpable for the ego than saying "people are unknowingly corrupt". The second one is much more threatening to the ego. Or maybe I'm reading too deep into this.

 

[mandyjw]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure, but you'd be dead.

Practical self preservation is not a selflish act, it's selfless. I for one would feel horrible for the people who had to bury my stupid dead body and raise my kids. Living is selfless. There's already no self whether you live or die. Nothing you can do about it. 

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Osaid said:

"people are unknowingly corrupt". The second one is much more threatening to the ego. Or maybe I'm reading too deep into this.

Nah i think you might have a point, if someone can be unknowingly corrupt it means anyone can be including ourselves. If someones corrupt its easier to think someone chose that and it may have been because of power. People like the idea of free will and choice because it means that you could and would chose good over evil, little do they know how misguided that actually is 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

I for one would feel horrible for the people who had to bury my stupid dead body and raise my kids.

That's cause you're selfish.

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Living is selfless.

Haha, nice try, devil.

[kai0]

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Practical self preservation is not a selflish act, it's selfless. I for one would feel horrible for the people who had to bury my stupid dead body and raise my kids. Living is selfless. There's already no self whether you live or die. Nothing you can do about it. 

Makes perfect sense but still doesnt feel completely right . If living is selfless then selfishness is selfless also . I think it dont matter anyway tho and only selfish people will get mad at other selfish people because selfless cant feel mad or want to control . All of human behavior mainly aim for controlling the narrative even the supposedly most selfless behaviors. The only way out of selfishness is truth but it will still be selfish if we try to force it so as always it is what it is and its inevitable

[Preety_India]

 

This is how absolutely corrupt power looks like. 

 

[Gidiot]

True power in any government or group style is very decentralized. Notice how sadhguru and mooji and leo try to empower as much as they can to their followers/students. Being a great and conscious uncorrupted leader isnt about making no mistakes and not having ego it’s really about realizing that what you want for others is the same you want for yourself and trying to put your students and followers in your shoes and vice versa and seeing what the best outcome for both could be. It is tricky but definitely it’s a good insight to say that a developed leader is not necessarily in it for simply material desires, I think material desires can be a byproduct, but my insight is that true power comes from selflessness and that’s why lauded leaders and beloved people are also seen as the most selfless. 
 

you can’t really have true power if you aren’t helping others/ improving yourself/society etc

Edited September 26, 2020 by Gidiot