Unpopular Opinion: Reproduction is not an ilusion

[Name]

It is just an opinion.
I don't want to preach,just to discuss my point of view with you.

I am not being condescending and want to respect the rules.

so Leo calm down.

It's about this video.

Based on the logic from this video you could say that absolutely everything is an illusion.

Because God doesn't give a shit.

From God's POV raping and killing your wife is the same as loving her and raising kids with her.

But we are here, embodied, having a subjective experience, living in duality, so it does matter.
You can't just use "I am God" to justify everything.
It's blatantly non-sense.

Yes my ego is saying this, but no matter how enlighted you are, you are still embodied in human, and live in a collective dream with others.

Leo used the logic that from God's POV it doesn't matter if you're going to have kids or your neighbor is going to.

But that's non-sense because they are not mutually exclusive.

If everyone's going to use that logic for X thing, then there is no neighbor left to do it.

 

I still remind you that you're a human in a collective dream.

You can recontextualise as much as you want but as long as you can't change the "physical reality" ,things have consequences.

 

Charles Manson was probably enlighted too.

His cult ended a lot of people.

But he was enlighted,so who cares?

oh,he wasn't fully enlighted, so I can't use this argument?

 

you got the idea.

And anyway there is no such thing as fully enlighted, as Leo said ,you can go further and further.

 

Buuuuuuut, we should not use Enlightenment to reason and justify ideas.

So can we all please drop the "oh but X is an ilusion from God's POV,eww you're clearly not enlighted,you're still an ego and see things from a limited point".

 

I literally could make a video myself using your logic,Leo, and say that "It does not matter if you rape and kill kids, since there are infinite posibilities, and in the absolute nothing really matters"

can we all please stop justifying things using the "You are God".

no,you are a human body.

you can be God, in the background, but for the next 50-100 years you have to be a human.

 

 

Also I've seen you comparing yourself with Shakespare, and saying that nobody remembers his kids, but everybody knows his work.

Again, they are not mutually exclusive,

You can both have kids and an inpact on the world.

Why do you have to exclude one to have another.

You already had in impact on the world, you can have kids if you want, you're still young.

but saying that they are mutually exclusive sounds like you're an asshole and try to justify the fact that you don't like kids.

 

Do whatever you want :have kids or don't,

I am not here with pro-kids propaganda.

[Bulgarianspirit]

I don't want to reproduce. There is a fair chance my kids will get my chronic illness, or the thing i had surgery in order to cure. Basically it also limits your freedom a lot and costs a lot. Maybe adoption makes more sense, but now i'm not in a giving state, but rather a lack one

[Joshua Deveau]

Don't allow anyone to tell you how to live your life, including me. If someone feels like having kids, well then hopefully they explore that to it's completion. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Joshua Deveau

[Name]

@Joshua Deveau well tell this to Leo.

He is the one saying that it doesn't matter.

He is the one trying to push nihilism down people's throat.

[Bulgarianspirit]

3 minutes ago, Name said:

@Joshua Deveau well tell this to Leo.

He is the one saying that it doesn't matter.

He is the one trying to push nihilism down people's throat.

Leo is just pointing the truth for himself.

Meaning is self-created but ultimately a lie.

If you want kids have them,no Leo no one can stop you.

And in the end it's just a dream it doesn't matter if you have kids or not.

 

[yetineti]

@Name I agree that there can be a problem with using the ‘you’re not enlightened’ or ‘you’re not enlightened enough’ argument. Seems to be that even if that is true and there is some ‘level above’ our current mode of thought, this is still an argument from authority and if the cause of such an argument is true - then perhaps the reasoning should be elaborated upon, rather just putting the foot down and saying, essentially, ‘you could not possibly understand.’ Some guidance, at least, should be given granted there is such a disconnect between views and one person is ‘so above’ the other.

 

Nonetheless, maybe the point of this video was missed. Some people believe reproduction is the meaning of life and structure their being around having kids. In suggestion, the ‘God mode perspective’ was used here to provide some dissonance and/or options from such a silly perspective. 
 

Also overpopulation could become an issue. So there’s that - but people can still do what they please. Have the kids, don’t have the kids. In the grand scheme it won’t matter; that could be all that was trying to be said (with exaggeration (or something similar) to, again, provide dissonance to those who may believe that reproduction is the meaning of life).

Edited September 22, 2020 by mw711
grammar

[Inliytened1]

@Name Its been a while since i listened to that one but i went back to confirm what i thought the point of the video was about...the point of the video was to show that physical reproduction is not objective since there is no objective reality.  It is relative.  The universe (ultimately this is you) is reproducing itself in an infinite number of ways all the time.  Its an illusion that physical reproduction is an Absolute.  It is not about morals.  But since its not an Absolute you don't have to feel less whole or imperfect if you for whatever reason don't want kids - contrary to what our predominantly materialistic society indoctrinates us into.  The video is trying to show you a more meta or holistic POV.

I for one have two kids and i wouldn't change a thing.  So the message is not telling you that having kids is wrong - merely that it is relative.  It's probably your own bias that triggered this response.  We all have our own bias so i get that.  

  

[rav]

1 hour ago, Name said:

well tell this to Leo.

He is the one saying that it doesn't matter.

He is the one trying to push nihilism down people's throat.

You're inside language, thus you judge a person's statements based upon your own language and world-view.

That's totally fine and unavoidable.

But even from an ego-perspective:

Does it even matter if one procreates or not? When you're dead, it won't matter to you anymore whether you have children or not.

Because then you won't be inside language anymore.

[Guest SirVladimir]

1 hour ago, Name said:

He is the one trying to push nihilism down people's throat.

I have seen too many people lately devolving consciousness work into some sort of nihilism being pushed down one's throat. 

[willl]

looking at your response, it seems you have missed the point of the video

contemplate how you reacted to it, it's not about Leo

[The Lucid Dreamer]

If everything is you, then “you” don’t reproduce.  Reproduction only exists relative to the concepts that we have of “separate” objects or organisms.  But in reality, nothing is separate.  We draw the lines ultimately arbitrarily.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by The Lucid Dreamer

[Leo Gura]

@Name You missed the whole point of the video: "reproduction" is relative.

But you don't understand that yet. You actually believe bioligical reproduction is some objective thing.

[Haloman]

@Leo Gura He is just trying to say that our emotional and biological system is much more powerful than our intellectual.  You can sell this dream all the time that you have to develop your ego through understanding and study various models and become super human. But here we are. Been on several retreats, taken psychedelics and all we can do is to be in God consciousness 1% of time when we are alone at home tripping, contemplating or meditating and to be in chimp consciousness the rest 99% of time. And that's after 5 years when you started to speak about spirituality in 2015. Looks like you will tell the same thing in 2025, that you have to be working on your consciousness, study new different ego models etc... 

And I think that you have too naive of a look about these spiritual superhumans. Actually I'm pretty sure that biggest happiness for these superhumans and gurus (Sadhguru, Mooji, Spira, Shunyamurti) doesn't come from God consciousness but from other people who are near them in ashrams and that they can help them. So it is for all of us who can't stay away from this forum longer for a day, because wee drive happiness from this human connection, even if it's digital.

[DreamScape]

@Haloman well, loneliness vs solitude are two states of consciousness you can be in. 

Not true btw. There definitely is a development and rising, getting more consciousness so to speak. It does take time. 

Leo does know what he's talking ab but I think he is missing the embodiment of love

Edited September 23, 2020 by DreamScape

[Name]

@The Lucid Dreamer

13 hours ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

If everything is you, then “you” don’t reproduce.  Reproduction only exists relative to the concepts that we have of “separate” objects or organisms.  But in reality, nothing is separate.  We draw the lines ultimately arbitrarily.

that's what I'm trying to say, that you don't draw the lines arbitrarily.

The line between you, the body, and everything else around it, it's an well defined line that you can't break.

For example you can't control/see things from my POV.

So ultimately there are some lines.

Ultimately you live in a human body.

You can't change this now.

I don't know what you see in your DMT trips but this is how physical reality looks.

Break it and prove me that I'm wrong.

But you can't, Leo said it too.

You can't change the duality, as Leo can't heal himself magically and has to find a physical solution for it.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Name said:

The line between you, the body, and everything else around it, it's an well defined line that you can't break.

For example you can't control/see things from my POV.

Hahahahaha...

Buddy, you've landing in the wrong forum. I suggest you try joining a Richard Dawkins sub-Reddit where you can circle-jerk about objective reality with your materialist comrades.

[Name]

@Leo Gura I am not trying to circle jerk.

I know that there is no objective reality.

I am open-minded,I didn't came here to argue but to learn.

But isn't it a fact that you have access to your body only?(besides the 5-meo-DMT trips when you can access God).

You can't control my body, you can't see what is in my mind, you can't feel my emotions.

Because these are mine.

You can feel what is yours: Leo's emotions, Leo's thoughts and whatnot.

Having an enlightenment experience just helps you to recontextualise the whole reality as pure Love+ gives you the realisation that everything it's Love,including you,and that in the absolute,there are no boundaries.

Buuuuuuuut we don't live in the absolute, but in the relative duality realm.

 You are still unable to do a miracle, you are still limited to your body's functions, you can't cure someone who suffers from cancer let's say.(talking about this, a relative died of cancer and her kids are now without their mother,at 10-18 years old,can you do something to change it?no,you can only feel sorry about them.)

The line between what is you and what is not you seems very well defined.

You are the body, you can move it, but you are not the cloud on the sky let's say, because you can't move it, you have no control of it.

Please explain to me how I am wrong.

 

[nistake]

3 minutes ago, Name said:

@Leo Gura You can't control my body, you can't see what is in my mind, you can't feel my emotions.

Because these are mine.

Why are you so sure that these are yours?

[mandyjw]

@Name Where does the feeling in your hands start and stop? 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Name said:

@Leo Gura

I know that there is no objective reality.

No you don't. Don't kid yourself.

Quote

You can't control my body, you can't see what is in my mind, you can't feel my emotions.

Because these are mine.

You can feel what is yours: Leo's emotions, Leo's thoughts and whatnot.

You and I are identical.

It will never makes to ego that ego is a fiction. The physical, biological difference you think that exists between you and me, is ego. That is the fiction!

Physics is a fiction.

Biology is a fiction.

History is a fiction.

Quote

Having an enlightenment experience just helps you to recontextualise the whole reality as pure Love+ gives you the realisation that everything it's Love,including you,and that in the absolute,there are no boundaries.

You have no idea what an enlightenment is. You have egoic ideas of it which are nowhere even close to the real thing.

Quote

Buuuuuuuut we don't live in the absolute, but in the relative duality realm.

We do live in the absolute if you are conscious of it.

Quote

 You are still unable to do a miracle, you are still limited to your body's functions, you can't cure someone who suffers from cancer let's say.(talking about this, a relative died of cancer and her kids are now without their mother,at 10-18 years old,can you do something to change it?no,you can only feel sorry about them.)

The line between what is you and what is not you seems very well defined.

You are the body, you can move it, but you are not the cloud on the sky let's say, because you can't move it, you have no control of it.

Please explain to me how I am wrong.

You are so wrong that it cannot possibly be explained to you.

Awakening cannot be explained to an unawakened person.

Take a psychedelic if you really want to know how you're wrong.