Is there a Solution for Incels?

[Danioover9000]

@John Mitchell  I do suffer from similar problems you seem to be having. Every time I've visited a country, I'd struggled to  approach girls because I'm too busy adjusting to new norms of that culture. Not only that, pick up advice taught in USA, if you just copy and paste that approach to foreign women, can be seen as odd or insulting to some cultures. I've also approached hundreds of women at different countries, and I had mixed results and it still was a struggle for me.

   I advice taking Leo's advice to dating with a bucket of sea water, because I've walked this direction, not just mental masturbation, but real world experience, and it's very different to what he talks about in dating. So different.

[JosephKnecht]

This guy has made a formula for finding The One. There is Hope for everyone. 

 

[Globalcollective]

50 minutes ago, ColeMC01 said:

@Leo Gura You are looking at it through the player pua paradigms where you want to sleep with a lot of hot girls. Most incels and the guy above do not care about that. They want a 5/10 girlfriend that they can love and be happy with. Why should that be so difficult for them? Ofc you should not expect hot girls for free but hot girls in huge quantities is not what they want. Most incels just want to get laid, they do not care how hot the girl is. I despise the Incel ideology personally but i have noticed that a lot of them would be willing to fuck a 3/10 girl if the chance is presented. So it is not that they want hot girls for free and to be drowning in pussy. It is like saying you have to work to be a millionaire but these guys just want some bread not to starve. The reason inceldom exists in the first place is that there are some guys that live life normally and get an average girl or even above average and there are others that dont get shit even if they are relatively social and outgoing. Then ofc they blame their looks because these days society is all about looks, just look Instagram as an example. There is more to it ofc but if you did the same shit as your friends and you saw them with someone while you were ignored you would start to blame your looks too. I personally do not but am not surprised that so many do. 

missing the point completely there, I know some guys who did have to approach 100s of girls before he found his 5/10 gf. To get better with girls generally you have to go out and interact with lots of them. whatever goal you won't from it is up to you but for some people it is very hard and they have to put the work in even to get very average success. But whats the alternative moan and be a loser? 

[Danioover9000]

@Globalcollective

1 minute ago, Globalcollective said:

missing the point completely there, I know some guys who did have to approach 100s of girls before he found his 5/10 gf. To get better with girls generally you have to go out and interact with lots of them. whatever goal you won't from it is up to you but for some people it is very hard and they have to put the work in even to get very average success. But whats the alternative moan and be a loser? 

   Yes, some volume is needed to finding that gf, except it really depends on how you do pick-up. You can't expect USA pick-up to apply to European dating, or to dating in Asian cultures. I'm more worried that Incels here will skip developing a purpose in life and go for the booty instead. You don't necessarily need high volume, you need a high quality life first, and that will leverage dating success. 

[ColeMC01]

@Globalcollective Looksmax and work on your social skills. You dont need 500 approaches for that.

[Aspiraling Wizard]

On 9/21/2020 at 11:40 AM, Mikael89 said:

@creator20 I'm a incel.

Yes some people will definitely never find a partner. Like me.

A unlucky combination of shitty genes and childhood= you are fucked for life.

It's just how reality works.

Some people can't become the president of USA. Some can't become a teacher in mathematics. Some can't get a partner. Etc.

And also, the problem isn't always about physical appearance, it's usually about the inside.

And no, you can't always change the inside that much. That's a misconception. I have a very ugly inside and there's nothing I can do about it.

I know everyone will think I have a victim mentality. That's wrong. I am a victim. It's a simple fact. Bad genes+bad childhood= nothing you can do about it. Or do you think for example someone who is born as mentally retarded isn't a victim? Of course he's a victim.

The definition of a victim is when something has happened to someone against his/her will.

These are obvious objective facts.

So THIIIIISSSSS is why you want to ruthlessly murder innocent aliens!!!!! Wow, I'm so glad I saw this. I'm sorry for calling you a chimp yesterday, I was thinking about what I said later on after I posted it and while I haven't changed my opinion on the whole alien thing, the other stuff was unneeded and made you even more defensive. We were both being shitty in some ways to relative degrees. God DAMN do you need to do some shamanic breathing to release that trauma and start melting away your materialist and rationalist ideologies! You do you and you do it when and if you're ready because it's sum RADICAL shit, my broah. Baby step it. I struggle greatly with socializing too because I have asperger's syndrome but doing yoga, shamanic breathing, hypnosis e.t.c. has and is continuing to make a difference. Sorry again for calling you a chimp.

[Aspiraling Wizard]

7 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

@Timur The bar for what is an acceptable man has been rising dramatically in the last 10 years.

31% of Males aged 22-35 are now virgins. Dont just blame external factors but also I dont think ite healthy to blame yourself for everything.

If you had a life sentence in prison would you blame yourself for not having sex? This is bullshit, under certain circumstances its just very hard.

 

@Leo Gura ironically did a rant against pickup and yet he is closed minded about this topic for years and advocates only a generic hardcore pickup approach to all dating problems.

Understand that Leo is not a god-tier master expert on every aspect of life. His map of reality is extremely deep, broad, nuanced and comprehensive but he's still far from perfect. Everyone is ultimately going to have to go about finding and/or inventing their own solutions. This is not only what will actually work but what you actually want. Leo even said recently in the ego development part 3 video that nobody actually really wants him to spoonfeed them all the answers. This is impossible anyway. 

[Thestarguitarist14]

3 hours ago, Timur said:

Leo himself as said he wasn’t the best pick up artist.  He’s just trying to get some of you guys to take action

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14

[Globalcollective]

@ColeMC01 yep you def don't you work on all that too but some people might have to :\ Ive seen a lot of people go through this and a lot of them need to approach a lot, sorry to burst your bubble but Ive seen around 1000 plus guys take this path and there are patterns 

[lmfao]

I think the being on the autistic on spectrum is a tough thing to deal with for men, including myself. 

Simple things like making eye contact even with your own family members in conversation can feel uncomfortable and difficult at times. 

It's not hopeless. Just sucks to have "high functioning autism" since childhood which impairs your ability to socialise well, leading to social anxiety, leading to more and more avoidance and making the problem worse. 

The only way out is to take action I suppose. 

I can't tell the difference between what's in my control or beyond my control with finding eye contact uncomfortable. And so that internal conflict of constantly beating yourself up with not living up to ideals takes a toll and wastes energy.

 

I'm never fallen down an incel rabbit hole, and I don't plan to. I have the precipitating factors untill I learn social skills and building connection/joy from strangers. Problem is that I feel like an alien wearing a human costume, so low self esteem from that, so I avoid. Avoidance is the main theme 

Imposter syndrome. 

Dodging any and all responsibilities like the plague. 

Probably "avoidant personality disorder" 

Edited September 22, 2020 by lmfao

[Thestarguitarist14]

17 minutes ago, lmfao said:

I think the being on the autistic on spectrum is a tough thing to deal with for men, including myself. 

Simple things like making eye contact even with your own family members in conversation can feel uncomfortable and difficult at times. 

It's not hopeless. Just sucks to have "high functioning autism" since childhood which impairs your ability to socialise well, leading to social anxiety, leading to more and more avoidance and making the problem worse. 

The only way out is to take action I suppose. 

I can't tell the difference between what's in my control or beyond my control with finding eye contact uncomfortable. And so that internal conflict of constantly beating yourself up with not living up to ideals takes a toll and wastes energy. 

When you think about it, all men have an autistic brain .  I believe Leo said himself that the male brain is the female brain on autism.

Also, you can heal yourself of any mental illness.

[Globalcollective]

46 minutes ago, lmfao said:

I think the being on the autistic on spectrum is a tough thing to deal with for men, including myself. 

Simple things like making eye contact even with your own family members in conversation can feel uncomfortable and difficult at times. 

It's not hopeless. Just sucks to have "high functioning autism" since childhood which impairs your ability to socialise well, leading to social anxiety, leading to more and more avoidance and making the problem worse. 

The only way out is to take action I suppose. 

I can't tell the difference between what's in my control or beyond my control with finding eye contact uncomfortable. And so that internal conflict of constantly beating yourself up with not living up to ideals takes a toll and wastes energy.

 

I'm never fallen down an incel rabbit hole, and I don't plan to. I have the precipitating factors untill I learn social skills and building connection/joy from strangers. Problem is that I feel like an alien wearing a human costume, so low self esteem from that, so I avoid. Avoidance is the main theme 

Imposter syndrome. 

Dodging any and all responsibilities like the plague. 

Probably "avoidant personality disorder" 

Awesome at least your taking responsibility and not falling into the incel trap, its not easy for a lot of people but with work you can make some amazing improvements and start focusing on other areas of your life  

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

@Leo Gura I don't want to sleep with hundreds of super models at all. In fact I don't give a shit about that.

I said nothing about hundreds of super-models.

I was taking about just getting laid a few times and maybe getting a girlfriend.

Quote

If that is the cost than tell me why 95% of guys don't approach hundreds of girls and still manage have an average sex life.

The average sex life is zero.

Sexual abundance with a pretty girl is a very rare thing. Few guys have that. Most guys are desperate starving dogs. Because they are too lazy to work for it. They are too busy making excuses, like you.

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

I also firmly belief that there is a good reason why approach anxiety exists. Its likely a mechanism guarding you against doing something that will lower your social status from a time when humans lived in tribes. You don't want to be that guy that just hits on every girl in the tribe, selfishly disregarding any social conventions. 

You fear what you're not used to. It's the most primal fear. The argument you have provided is nothing but an ego defense mechanism.

 

8 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

I don't want to sleep with hundreds of super models at all. In fact I don't give a shit about that. 

Ok, but you still have to talk to women to sleep with them, many times over.

 

8 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

If that is the cost than tell me why 95% of guys don't approach hundreds of girls and still manage have an average sex life.

Who are these people? Did they not talk to girls?

[Parththakkar12]

A few more insights about incels are striking me.

The issue of incels isn't that they aren't getting laid, or that they're single, or that they're lonely. The issue of incels is this - Women invalidate the pain of the guy they're rejecting. Women reject guys with the expectation that 'He's a guy, so he shouldn't feel any pain of rejection. All men want sex only anyways, so who gives a fuck.'

When guys meet with this invalidation of pain, this is where shit gets really scary. Here's the elephant in the room - there's all sorts of gaslighting going on along the lines of 'If you emotionally feel the pain of rejection, you're weak!!! You're not a real man!!!'. This is emotionally unhealthy collective behavior, where they basically get singled out. This is why they call women 'femoids' or 'robots without empathy'.

Gaslighting can make you feel crazy or insane, like there's something wrong with what you're seeing. This is what really causes mass shootings, where they lash out at the public. Mass shooters are subconsciously escalating a situation where they're getting invalidated. This is why they're glorifying rape, glorifying mass shooters, etc.

OP, you were asking for a solution to incels, right? Here's my solution - when you reject a guy next time, have empathy for his pain of getting rejected. You don't have to behave differently towards them than you already do, just have some more compassion or empathy.

This is the opposite of what feminists will say should be the response. Feminists want to further ostracize them, which will only increase the mass shootings and sexual assaults by them. This way, feminists are creating the very evil they're resisting.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[TrustTheProcess]

4 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

Yes 1 in 500 women will probably sleep with you, she might be hot but probably has metal deficits like low self-esteem because she doesn't pick up on your out-of-line behavior.

 

LMAOOOO... dude, no. If you are charming, funny, and just seem like a cool guy, many will respect your courage and think "if he has the balls to break social conventions like that... there must be something highly valuable about this guy". Of course, it takes practice to get that good.... but The risk of being awkward initially is worth it if you want to have a satisfying sex life/relationship.  

[Onemanwolfpac]

On 2020-09-21 at 1:28 PM, creator20 said:

I have looked deeply into the incel community because their worldview fascinates me in a way. When I first got into reading about it, as a woman it was kind of irking to read all the posts about how women should be subject to rape or torture & how they are a sub-human species but once I started reading some of the more moderate viewpoints relating to their constant rejections & low self esteem, I actually started to empathize a bit with some of the incels. It made me wonder if some people really are damned because of their physical appearance when it comes to attracting a partner or if it's just a lack of effort to improve one's appearance. I know a lot of incels hold themselves back with their own victim mentality, negative self image, & radical views on women & society, but in the case where someone is (by Western societal standards) physically unappealing due to some facial flaw or bodily abnormality, what would be a good solution for this? Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance or do you think that there always someone for everyone? Just want to broaden my perspective on this. 

If you had said people psycho analysed, I bet they would be on the spectrum of crazy or something. It's not the norm to think nor speak that way. I do think a lack of attention can drive people crazy.

I can link data and sources. These topics tend to get heated in general but the data is pretty fascinating. It gives a glimpse into human psyche and behaviour

If specific behaviour is random or not repetitive, it is not relevant. If you look at divorce stats and gender, you have hard facts. Info about behaviour you may not want to know about. Several experiments have been done with men and women on apps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find which one is better off on apps.

I don't see any way around incels. You have fellas who are getting all the attention and guys who get none. I don't see a way back.

Debauchery seems to be the norm in the culture. Netflix promoting cuties, WAP, and a number of different hedonistic things. The alternative being what Dr. Peterson enforced monogamy which he went onto explain isn't holding women at gunpoint to be with unattractive men. Rather a culture that promotes monogamy, fathers in the household, nuclear family. The alternative stats stand out for poverty, crime, fatherless household, abortions and a number of issues.

I wager those men are in fatherless homes.

[Consilience]

Reading all of these excuses on a personal development forum makes me realize just how powerfully a man positions himself by cold approaching... and how rare it really is. If you can become fearless and confident with cold approaches, you’ve suddenly shifted into the top percentile of men.

[Jacob Morres]

 

41 minutes ago, Onemanwolfpac said:

Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance or do you think that there always someone for everyone?

Not sure

Like im thinking really abnormal people, like people with extreme deformities. Like face burned in a fire, or no limbs, being 4'2" stuff like that? 

I've seen people get into relationships even like this.. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzie_Velásquez

Or 

Or 

Etc. You can find countless examples of this if you google 

I really do think there is someone for everyone. I'm thinking that if you really set an intention to, you should be able to. Will probably requires lots of healing, changes and action (process will change depending on person) but my guess is it should be possible irregardless 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[Danioover9000]

@Onemanwolfpac

41 minutes ago, Onemanwolfpac said:

If you had said people psycho analysed, I bet they would be on the spectrum of crazy or something. It's not the norm to think nor speak that way. I do think a lack of attention can drive people crazy.

I can link data and sources. These topics tend to get heated in general but the data is pretty fascinating. It gives a glimpse into human psyche and behaviour

If specific behaviour is random or not repetitive, it is not relevant. If you look at divorce stats and gender, you have hard facts. Info about behaviour you may not want to know about. Several experiments have been done with men and women on apps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find which one is better off on apps.

I don't see any way around incels. You have fellas who are getting all the attention and guys who get none. I don't see a way back.

Debauchery seems to be the norm in the culture. Netflix promoting cuties, WAP, and a number of different hedonistic things. The alternative being what Dr. Peterson enforced monogamy which he went onto explain isn't holding women at gunpoint to be with unattractive men. Rather a culture that promotes monogamy, fathers in the household, nuclear family. The alternative stats stand out for poverty, crime, fatherless household, abortions and a number of issues.

I wager those men are in fatherless homes.

   Mind linking those facts in here?