Is there a Solution for Incels?

[John Mitchell]

It can be something that can make a man suicidal for sure.

I'm myself over 30 and I'm on this journey of improving myself for over 10 years.

Despite constant meditation, fitness, reading, being independent, online/offline dating, having a good career, socializing on every opportunity and just trying to make myself into an interesting guy I was not able to attract a single woman. 

I still will continue all those things but at times it makes you insane, you have this huge biological urge to experience these things and on the other hand you have the fact that you tried for years and didn't even make one step of progress. You get into a love/hate relationship with women, it pulls you to and away from it, it literally makes you insane.

External answers and theories outside yourself also start appealing because you looked inside and fixed one thing after another that could be unappealing, also at some point you have to accept that certain features of your personality wont change.

At my age you just want the suffering and self image issues that stem from it to end. I'm at a point where things like chemical castration sound appealing to me.

Edited September 22, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

socializing on every opportunity and just trying to make myself into an interesting guy I was not able to attract a single woman. 

How many women have you approached and flirted with?

[John Mitchell]

@Leo Gura I have not cold-approached hundreds of girls if that's what you are getting at, but I did some.

I decided against this hardcore approach, because I'm not cut out for it. I tried meeting  women in traditional ways. 

 

I also firmly belief that there is a good reason why approach anxiety exists. Its likely a mechanism guarding you against doing something that will lower your social status from a time when humans lived in tribes. You don't want to be that guy that just hits on every girl in the tribe, selfishly disregarding any social conventions. 

I admit this doesn't translate to big cities but even then, if you frequent the same bars/places you will gain a reputation as "that guy" and people will just avoid you. If you live in a smaller town doing this shit while being awkward can destroy your status.

There is good reason 95% guys will just shake their heads if you talk about wildly hitting on women alone in the streets. This stuff is so far removed from the reality of how guys get into relationships, only people inside the pickup bubble believe this is how things should go, and they are in that bubble because they were dysfunctional to begin with.

Edited September 22, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Leo Gura]

@John Mitchell You can talk all you want, but the fact remains that to get girls you gotta do lots of approaches. Otherwise you're just praying for luck to strike, which is a sucker's strategy.

If you really want to resolve this problem you will do whatever it takes.

Stop making excuses and go talk to 100x more girls. There will never, ever be a substitute for talking to lots of girls if you want to get laid.

There is a cost to sleeping with hot girls. And that is it. Stop expecting hot girls for free.

[nistake]

@John Mitchell I also live in a small city (too small, actually) and a while ago, I purposely did some ridiculous shit (not pickup per se) just to prove myself that I could do it. I used to be soically anxious and I didn't have friends/girlfriends when I was younger. I realized that no matter how much I meditate, exercise, contemplate and do other practises, I can't get good socially without facing my fears.

So what I did were doing push ups on the middle of a busy square, asking a street musician if I could try his guitar (he agreed to it and it was embarassing, but fun :D), asking for free samples from a girl who sold ice cream (she also agreed to it and had a great chat with her afterwards), asking direction from a cute girl in English (I'm Hungarian - she couldn't speak very well but was cute as hell and she really tried to help me) and several other random stuff. After doing these, I could've easily done pick up, but I'm not interesed in that.

Bottom line: If you want it bad, you'll find a way without excuses.

[John Mitchell]

@Leo Gura I don't want to sleep with hundreds of super models at all. In fact I don't give a shit about that.

If that is the cost than tell me why 95% of guys don't approach hundreds of girls and still manage have an average sex life.

 

I see it happening in other people, opportunities for relationships just present themselves magically. Its something I don't see happening in my life. You are thinking surprisingly Materialistic on this point, like if the Universe is just "atoms bouncing around randomly" like you often say.

Having trouble with relationships is just not part of most peoples Dharma, they didn't come here to struggle half their life getting into relationships, they have other lessons to learn so this is a minor part that sorts itself out.

But it is such a central theme in my life that this was probably not a mistake, its part of my Dharma, the suffering I have chosen to go through as as a catalyst.

I may have to overcome it through meditation, approaching girls, maybe it will bring me to the edges of suicide or maybe it just sorts itself out once it has shaped me into who I should become. We will see.

Edited September 22, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Globalcollective]

49 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

@Leo Gura I don't want to sleep with hundreds of super models at all. In fact I don't give a shit about that.

If that is the cost than tell me why 95% of guys don't approach hundreds of girls and still manage have an average sex life.

 

I see it happening in other people, opportunities for relationships just present themselves magically. Its something I don't see happening in my life. You are thinking surprisingly Materialistic on this point, like if the Universe is just "atoms bouncing around randomly" like you often say.

Having trouble with relationships is just not part of most peoples Dharma, they didn't come here to struggle half their life getting into relationships, they have other lessons to learn so this is a minor part that sorts itself out.

But it is such a central theme in my life that this was probably not a mistake, its part of my Dharma, the suffering I have chosen to go through as as a catalyst.

I may have to overcome it through meditation, approaching girls, maybe it will bring me to the edges of suicide or maybe it just sorts itself out once it has shaped me into who I should become. We will see.

No offence mate but your totally missing the point and not seeing this correctly. Stop looking at what other people are doing and focus on your journey. Clearly your strategy is not working and you have to face up to facts. You do not have a choice, you are ok to whine about the pain this is causing you but when someone outlines how to get out of it you reject it. Fact of the matter is you have to get out there and start interacting with girls. you should aim to approach as many as it takes and because you are already developed in other areas you will avoid all the pitfalls that doing something like this can bring. If I took your logic I would of ended up an Incel but I chose to just man up and take action. And also you have to experience a few different women to even know what it is you want in one. This can be done in a heathy way to just move to a busy city and try and cold approach around 10 to 30 girls a week see what works best for you and eventually you start getting results. Took me about 1.5 years to really get a good grip on it. So stop your complaining and get out there. Also try and hire a coach who can help u. Good luck and say good buy to being a incel. 

Eventually you will laugh at how easy it is to get laid 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Globalcollective

[Sleyker]

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

I also firmly belief that there is a good reason why approach anxiety exists. Its likely a mechanism guarding you against doing something that will lower your social status from a time when humans lived in tribes. You don't want to be that guy that just hits on every girl in the tribe, selfishly disregarding any social conventions. 

I admit this doesn't translate to big cities but even then, if you frequent the same bars/places you will gain a reputation as "that guy" and people will just avoid you. If you live in a smaller town doing this shit while being awkward can destroy your status.

I know what you mean, and you're right. Doing terrible pick-up non-stop will make you look weird and will lower your status. But that's not what approaching girls should be like.

Ideally, you are this friendly attractive guy just chatting girls he's attracted to. Pick up at the end will grow you to the point that you see a beautiful girl on the street or anywhere and you CAN'T RESIST TALKING TO HER, you're drawn to them. Because why not? She's sexy and you're a confident man who loves himself and wants to connect with people. 

You become so good that it won't look like traditional pick-up anymore, you'll drop techniques, scripts and shows. You just strike up conversations with women and they happen to get attracted to you.

Now, that takes a lot of inner work and approaches. Since you live in a small town, move or just go do approaches in a big city. But again, there's nothing stopping you from doing it in your town, only your stories, women want to be approached by the kind of man I described above.

[Thestarguitarist14]

At the very least, pick up will give you the confidence to be able to talk to women.  Though, not sure if you can really do pick up with the Pandemic going on.  

[John Mitchell]

Yeah I'm aware I'm making excuses. But I still think the major struggles you face in life are not random. 

I dont think there was any way for me not to end up where I am.

Edited September 22, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Timur]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@John Mitchell You can talk all you want, but the fact remains that to get girls you gotta do lots of approaches. Otherwise you're just praying for luck to strike, which is a sucker's strategy.

If you really want to resolve this problem you will do whatever it takes.

Stop making excuses and go talk to 100x more girls. There will never, ever be a substitute for talking to lots of girls if you want to get laid.

There is a cost to sleeping with hot girls. And that is it. Stop expecting hot girls for free.

Most guys having cool and attractive girlfriends never had to cold approach anybody and they still have cool and attractive girlfriends.

[Timur]

2 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

Despite constant meditation, fitness, reading, being independent, online/offline dating, having a good career, socializing on every opportunity and just trying to make myself into an interesting guy I was not able to attract a single woman. 

Same here...

 

study at a prestigious uni, do intermittent fasting, am pretty advanced in meditation, look quite well, did impro theater, do boxing, livevin the center of my city, read + 100 books ( on spirituality, personal d. science, business),...

 

and still cannot get laid.

 

 

[Sleyker]

@Timur That's really cool, but are you approaching dozens of girls?

[John Mitchell]

@Timur The bar for what is an acceptable man has been rising dramatically in the last 10 years.

31% of Males aged 22-35 are now virgins. Dont just blame external factors but also I dont think ite healthy to blame yourself for everything.

If you had a life sentence in prison would you blame yourself for not having sex? This is bullshit, under certain circumstances its just very hard.

 

@Leo Gura ironically did a rant against pickup and yet he is closed minded about this topic for years and advocates only a generic hardcore pickup approach to all dating problems.

Edited September 22, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Timur]

19 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

31% of Males aged 22-35 are now virgins.

Really? Kinda doubt that high number to be honest. 

 

20 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

ironically did a rant against pickup and yet he is closed minded about this topic for years and advocates only a generic hardcore pickup approach to all dating problems.

Eloquently said.

 

[John Mitchell]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/the-percentage-of-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-a-record-high/amp

It was 28% in 2018.

[Thestarguitarist14]

@Timur Try okcupid.  Message 100 women a day for one month and you will surely find a few who are interested.  Don’t look for a relationship, be open about just wanting a casual thing and you will get it.

 

@John Mitchell You have a terrible mindset.  No wonder you are an incel.  You have to do some deep unwitting of your negative beliefs my friend.  

[Timur]

31 minutes ago, Sleyker said:

@Timur That's really cool, but are you approaching dozens of girls?

Read what I wrote above.

 

If you approach lots of girls, then you are doing something fundemantelly wrong.

 

A guy who cold approached 500 women and gets one cool and attractive girlfriend, failed the dating game. 99 percent of guys having cool and attractive girlfriends never had to cold approach anybody. And no they also did not have to "socialize" with hundreds of girls.

 

A good analogy to cold approaching and then getting a girlfriend out of that is this one...

 

Imagine a girl or guy would come up to you and say: " Look at me I have a masters degree in physics from this great uni."

But then you find out that this person needed 28 semesters for his/ her degree instead of 6 semesters. 

 

That is the same game with cold appraoching. 

 

Even if you get a cool and attractive girlfriend out of it ( equivalent to masters degree ), you are still the freaking moron who cold approached a thousand women to get her ( equivalent of 28 semesters).

 

You just did something fundamentally wrong and invested waaay too much time for something which obviously was not for you.

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Timur

[Timur]

8 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

@Timur Try okcupid.  Message 100 women a day for one month and you will surely find a few who are interested.  Don’t look for a relationship, be open about just wanting a casual thing and you will get it.

 

Thank you for your tip, Sir.

 

But Okcupid and all those other dating apps besides tinder are not established here in germany.

 

I tried tinder multiple times and just can say that the algorithm is fucked up! 

 

On day one I usually get +-5 matches and +- 5 likes. ( most girls average/above average looking and one out of ten or twenty matches is usually pretty hot)

 

But day two crickets...

 

Day three crickets...

 

and so on.

[Thestarguitarist14]

56 minutes ago, Timur said:

Read what I wrote above.

 

If you approach lots of girls, then you are doing something fundemantelly wrong.

 

A guy who cold approached 500 women and gets one cool and attractive girlfriend, failed the dating game. 99 percent of guys having cool and attractive girlfriends never had to cold approach anybody. And no they also did not have to "socialize" with hundreds of girls.

 

A good analogy to cold approaching and then getting a girlfriend out of that is this one...

 

Imagine a girl or guy would come up to you and say: " Look at me I have a masters degree in physics from this great uni."

But then you find out that this person needed 28 semesters for his/ her degree instead of 6 semesters. 

 

That is the same game with cold appraoching. 

 

Even if you get a cool and attractive girlfriend out of it ( equivalent to masters degree ), you are still the freaking moron who cold approached a thousand women to get her ( equivalent of 28 semesters).

 

You just did something fundamentally wrong and invested waaay too much time for something which obviously was not for you.

 

Dude, what kind of mindset is that?  It’s a numbers game.  It’s the same with auditioning, sales , winning at sports and etc. You are going to lose way more than you win.  Everyone is a loser in some regard.  Also, when I first got into pick up, I did a thirty day challenge.  I was 20 years old.  Started dating a woman before the challenge was over.  Probably had cold approached twenty women to get to that point.

 

While, pick up has its limits and it is more of a phrase, it is great if you have very little social skills as well as no sexual options.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14