Is there a Solution for Incels?

[creator20]

I have looked deeply into the incel community because their worldview fascinates me in a way. When I first got into reading about it, as a woman it was kind of irking to read all the posts about how women should be subject to rape or torture & how they are a sub-human species but once I started reading some of the more moderate viewpoints relating to their constant rejections & low self esteem, I actually started to empathize a bit with some of the incels. It made me wonder if some people really are damned because of their physical appearance when it comes to attracting a partner or if it's just a lack of effort to improve one's appearance. I know a lot of incels hold themselves back with their own victim mentality, negative self image, & radical views on women & society, but in the case where someone is (by Western societal standards) physically unappealing due to some facial flaw or bodily abnormality, what would be a good solution for this? Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance or do you think that there always someone for everyone? Just want to broaden my perspective on this. 

[Rajneeshpuram]

atrraction isnt a choice

[Roy]

44 minutes ago, creator20 said:

what would be a good solution for this?

For them to go outside, and meet people. It's really that simple, no matter how harsh it seems. Every second not doing this is a second not going towards the solution.

47 minutes ago, creator20 said:

Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance or do you think that there always someone for everyone? Just want to broaden my perspective on this. 

Nobody is perfect for everyone, but everyone is perfect for someone.

[Parththakkar12]

@creator20 It's really about what the individual wants. Incels isn't about wanting a relationship, it is about cathartically vomitting your pent up resentment and hate towards everyone and everything and being validated for it. That's the only legitimate reason I can see this collective existing.

You're asking about whether the blackpill is true or not. There is a kernel of truth, that looks and genetics matter when it comes to finding a partner. To what degree they matter depends on the individual. Apart from that, it's all BS imo.

Their problems are very normal problems. These aren't out-of-the-ordinary problems. This isn't to invalidate their pain, because the norm is pretty painful. It's goddamn hard to solve normal problems of real life. Having said that, they haven't been systemically oppressed or anything, so they aren't owed anything.

The individual incels may be working on themselves. But, the collective is just about whining about their problems, not solving them.

It isn't a super-big sin to be an incel. If you haven't done a mass shooting, you haven't really done much damage materially speaking. All you've done is rant online. So, if you snap out of your victim mentality, it's really no crime no foul. You can then go on to fix your life.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[StarStruck]

Not all incels are that extreme. Most incels are very innocent and just want love and affection. Their emotional baggage makes things very difficult.

I consider myself a light weight incel. I didn't really chose to be an incel. I don't have any radical views on women. I look average to above average. I just don't know how to talk/vibe with people because of my past trauma's.

Most people are very harsh on incels understandibly. Most of them are overcompensating, trying to catch up with all the things they missed in life. It is hard to understand them if you had a normal upbringing.

[Enlightenment]

2 hours ago, creator20 said:

Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance

It's a combination of not being good looking enough and too high inhibitions. A below-average looking guy can attract girls but he has to have low inhibitions/not be crippled by anxiety. Some incels are even good looking enough for girls to openly say they want to fuck them but they are still too inhibited to go for it. 

[Danioover9000]

@Mikael89

33 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

@creator20 I'm a incel.

Yes some people will definitely never find a partner. Like me.

A unlucky combination of shitty genes and childhood= you are fucked for life.

It's just how reality works.

Some people can't become the president of USA. Some can't become a teacher in mathematics. Some can't get a partner. Etc.

And also, the problem isn't always about physical appearance, it's usually about the inside.

And no, you can't always change the inside that much. That's a misconception. I have a very ugly inside and there's nothing I can do about it.

I know everyone will think I have a victim mentality. That's wrong. I am a victim. It's a simple fact. Bad genes+bad childhood= nothing you can do about it. Or do you think for example someone who is born as mentally retarded isn't a victim? Of course he's a victim.

The definition of a victim is when something has happened to someone against his/her will.

These are obvious objective facts.

   I'd say I'm a light incel as well, and how I got to be one was through a combination of factors.

   Firstly, I was bullied by some boys and a few girls in the past, which has altered my self confidence.

   Secondly, from early childhood to late adolescence, my unique life involved travelling mostly with my family to different countries, for at least 1-2 years living in that country, and leaving. . Each time I had to adjust to new people of that culture, new places, differences in education, new languages, new behaviors, cultural norms, and while all that was exiting, because I was a foreigner in most countries, I really had to watch my behavior to not get into trouble.

   Thirdly, I'm more comfortable and effective by myself, and some social situations do tire me out, which did effected my views on my attempts to socialize and date, especially in my late adolescence.

   fourthly, I'm suffering from P.O.I.S, which makes it much harder to date women. I haven't even dated anybody yet!

[creator20]

54 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

@creator20 I'm a incel.

Yes some people will definitely never find a partner. Like me.

A unlucky combination of shitty genes and childhood= you are fucked for life.

It's just how reality works.

Some people can't become the president of USA. Some can't become a teacher in mathematics. Some can't get a partner. Etc.

And also, the problem isn't always about physical appearance, it's usually about the inside.

And no, you can't always change the inside that much. That's a misconception. I have a very ugly inside and there's nothing I can do about it.

I know everyone will think I have a victim mentality. That's wrong. I am a victim. It's a simple fact. Bad genes+bad childhood= nothing you can do about it. Or do you think for example someone who is born as mentally retarded isn't a victim? Of course he's a victim.

The definition of a victim is when something has happened to someone against his/her will.

These are obvious objective facts.

I have had some friends with horrible abusive upbringings who sought out help & are in a much better place in their lives now. Since reality is largely based on one’s own perception of it, I just don’t know how you could say with this much confidence that you are forever a victim & that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that ever in your life & also that this is an ‘objective fact.’ I can see that you have self awareness, I can assume by what you said & how you said it that you’ve been through some bad shit, but I can not bring myself to agree with you that you’re just fucked forever because of your past. 

And to your point about handicapped people being victimized: I have associated with a few mentally handicapped people in my life, family friends, & these people did not strike me as miserable people. They have obstacles for sure, but the ones I have associated with were charming & happy people. I don’t think you can make the assumption that solely because these people are not what one would consider normally functioning that they are doomed to hate themselves & their lives forever. These people may appear to be 'victims' by your definition of it, but not every mentally handicapped person carries out their life in a depressive victimized way.

Edited September 21, 2020 by creator20

[Fran11]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

And no, you can't always change the inside that much. That's a misconception. I have a very ugly inside and there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm sorry for the things you've gone trough and the negative self-image you developed.

It's true life can be damn hard.

Could you elaborate on why you say your inside is ugly and the things you've tried in order to change it? 

[Vercingetorix]

@Mikael89

IMO being a victim is a perspective about life that was probably forced upon with your childhood and trauma, But it's a perspective that can be changed, and as an adult it's your responsibility if you want a good life.

a mentaly damaged person is not a victim - he can still enjoy life in many way. victim is a resistance to reality. watch the movie "Miracle in Cell No. 7".

how I know it can be changed - If you will practice meditation, and start to live in the now - your past won't be relevant anymore, you can choose each moment to act and respond as you want!

also if you will practice meditation you will start to be less and less identified with your thoughts, and you will stop believing them, and you will be free to from the thoughts you don't want.

10% is what happens to you, 90% is how you respond. you have the choice to interpret any situation in a positive, empowering way and thus stop suffering and being a victim.

 

Also it's important to say that what you feel and think is valid. I believe that only after some feel understood, that his pains are understood - only after the emotions were processed, he is able to think, to see how to solve the issue. So if you still strong emotions about it I don't think there is a point to logically debate it.

[Thestarguitarist14]

I remember watching a video from the youtubers coach red pill that everyone goes through an incel stage.  Meaning everyone has desired to have sex, but it was not happening.  I remember in late 2014 to 2017, I was able to hook up at a good rate.  2018?  Shit?  At the end of last year I got with two of the hottest women I have ever been with.  After that an ex came back (my “twin flame”) and messed up my head.

 

Its cyclical.  You just can’t take it personally.  

[Fran11]

7 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

how I know it can be changed - If you will practice meditation, and start to live in the now - your past won't be relevant anymore, you can choose each moment to act and respond as you want!

also if you will practice meditation you will start to be less and less identified with your thoughts, and you will stop believing them, and you will be free to from the thoughts you don't want.

Strongly agree with this.

Meditation can be surprisingly effective in dealing with deeply rooted patterns that psychoteraphy and other contemporary methods fail to fix.

[Thestarguitarist14]

28 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Strongly agree with this.

Meditation can be surprisingly effective in dealing with deeply rooted patterns that psychoteraphy and other contemporary methods fail to fix.

Shamanic tapping is also amazing.  I have been doing it for a lot of different things, and the change is instant.  Do that for thirty days and you will be a different person.

[Fran11]

41 minutes ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Shamanic tapping is also amazing.  I have been doing it for a lot of different things, and the change is instant.  Do that for thirty days and you will be a different person.

Interesting. Gonna try it out! 

[Raze]

5 hours ago, creator20 said:

I have looked deeply into the incel community because their worldview fascinates me in a way. When I first got into reading about it, as a woman it was kind of irking to read all the posts about how women should be subject to rape or torture & how they are a sub-human species but once I started reading some of the more moderate viewpoints relating to their constant rejections & low self esteem, I actually started to empathize a bit with some of the incels. It made me wonder if some people really are damned because of their physical appearance when it comes to attracting a partner or if it's just a lack of effort to improve one's appearance. I know a lot of incels hold themselves back with their own victim mentality, negative self image, & radical views on women & society, but in the case where someone is (by Western societal standards) physically unappealing due to some facial flaw or bodily abnormality, what would be a good solution for this? Do you think it's the case that some people will just never be able to find a partner due to the flaws in their appearance or do you think that there always someone for everyone? Just want to broaden my perspective on this. 

That's like asking "is there a solution for murderers". Not to say incels and murderers are the same, my point is it is way too general a category.

Incels simply have some mental problem that they attach to the incel ideology, what they need is to resolve the mental issue, but their are so many categories there isn't a simple solution. From what I've seen of incels the most common source of their pain is. They say and think that losing their virginity and getting a girlfriend is all they need, but it isn't, if they actually got that they would most likely end up as destructive but direct it at something else or some new ideology.  I have never seen an incel who was uglier than the ugliest people I know who are happy or have sex lives. Perhaps they exist, but apparently they are the minority. There was an incel meetup once and they all looked like normal people.

The common backstories among incels I notice are

-they were molested or abused by a woman at a young age

-schizophrenia

-on the autism spectrum and didn't get help so they became withdrawn and isolated

-bullied as children and became withdrawn and isolated

-paranoia

Basically what they need is to realize their thoughts and ideology is not rational, no amount of sex or girlfriends will resolve their inner pain, and to get psychological help.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Raze

[mandyjw]

Our society is very separate, and independence is overly valued. Our family structures are basically all about the immediate family only, there's no real extended community or family available. This causes isolation with lots of groups of people. Teenagers are left alone with no mentors.  In the past they'd be learning a trade or hardly ever alone when their parents worked. That's not true today. This affects their ability to interact with people, only if hurts boys far more than it hurts girls. Most girls naturally know how to relate to people because of how their brains are wired, but we don't see this type of connection as a necessary skill, so we don't teach boys the skills they need to learn it in school. The problem doesn't even come up until they try to find a partner. It's a complete oversight by society. We need to go back towards having tighter communities, larger extended families, or else we need to change our education system completely. 

 

[StephenK]

@mandyjw I think you're spot on. Western society to a large extent has fetishized the 'self' and its atomized individuals cannot even conceive of real community anymore. This is epitomized by how many parents are 'ecstatic' for their kids to move out of the house at 18, as if to say, "Finally, I can get rid of you. Now I can enjoy my life!" Or when their parents get old, the kids say, "Let them go to an old age home. Not my problem." It has become a cult of 'me' and our narcissism and vanity will come back to bite us when we least expect it. When you're told from a young age that all life is about is finding an attractive partner, accumulating wealth, having a high social status (that can only be achieved through wealth/physicality) etc etc, when you're someone that isn't attractive, or socially capable, or innovative, you'll grow to resent yourself, and hence resent society for setting up standards you can not live up to, and the lack of a social safety net can lead a lot of people into dark, dark places. That being said, I think the vast majority of involuntary celibates have little to no violent intent. My hypothesis is that most are probably depressed and/or suicidal, and societies fixation of labeling incels as violent freaks is only going to make the problem worse. Our society has a big problem with the idea of virginity.  

[Globalcollective]

@creator20 there is an answer for incels and its called pick up/PUA. Thats what the whole dating industry for men is for, incels. Problem is pua also got toxic and eventually got shunned by mainstream societie and is frowned upon. 

Men can actually learn how to relate and attract women, the problem is though its quite hard and can take people along time to understand so instead of going through pain to grow into a more attractive man they choose to bypass it with toxic ideologues like incel. When I was younger there was no incel culture just rsd /pickup so it was alot more popular and I saw first hand broken men who were terrible with women slowly get better at meeting and attracting them. Myself included. I think there is a calling now for a emergence of healthy dating advice for guys because rsd was good but had alot of toxic ideas also. 

I think alot of this is also due to young guys living in an online generation. They don't get out as much anymkre and see how humans interact face to face, rather they look at stats from things like dating apps and social media. So there perception is not based on real life experience. If they just spent abit of time learning how attraction worked then went out and met 500 to 1000 new girls theyd start to understand it. Not easy by anymeans as they will get rejected alot along the way.

 

[Leo Gura]

Talking to girls.

[nistake]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Talking to girls.