Omfg it's Love

[arlin]

@Nahm@Nahm. I dont know man... Separation is the experience. 

Maybe this had nothing to do with non duality because non duality says reality is complete and whole

6 hours ago, Tim R said:

When I say "reality accepts itself", I mean that in a non-dual way - in other words, there is no possibility for reality not to accept itsel

[Nahm]

@arlin

Please don’t identify with this comment. I’m referring to the experience of thought & emotion, not talking about you...

Would you rather experience separation, or ignorance?

[arlin]

@Nahm ok dont worry, but i dont understand what you mean with "ignorance" 

[Nahm]

@arlin

Would you rather actually be separate from everything else, or not be separate at all, but under the spell of ignorance (the false understanding / beliefs) that there is separation, and you are separate?

One thought that comes to mind is, it is not possible that I am not separate, because that means ‘Jim’ is me, and I would never in a million years do what ‘Jim’ did. 

But maybe ‘Jim’s’ ignorance is being underestimated.

 

[Someone here]

32 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I've seen A LOT of debate around here about that type of discussion.

Ime, the ego doesn't like the idea that the Absolute is not different than the relative.

Ego likes to always re-assure itself that there's this "Self" that is always in Peace and untouchable and Now, because ego is terrified of the idea that Reality is not a fixed thing (since Reality = Illusion = Imagination).

Ego loves the idea of being an untouchable ground, like Self, Now, Awareness, Consciousness...etc.

I am not saying this "things" (or better said, "thing") exist , but rather that this thing is not separate from the dream, the illusion, the hallucination.

Is what's aware of change also changing? 

[arlin]

@Nahm sorry i guess i just cant understand... 

I think you are trying to say again that im not separate from infinity so nothing to worry about. I guess i would need mystical experiences but im 21 and im not ready to do psychedelics and contemplate. 

[Nahm]

@arlin

No worries Jim. ?? 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

Reality is a fixed no-thing.

Consciousness is an untouchable formless ground.

When all identification with form ceases, this ground remains as your true Self.

That’s advaita 101.

 

 

Yeap . That´s literally the trap I´m pointing out.

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Is what's aware of change also changing? 

What is aware of change sometimes is aware, but other times is totally lost in the dream.

So, no, you can´t hold on to that as a ground, either. 

Sorry but that is just how it goes. Notice that is the ego which doesn´t like that. God doesn´t have a problem with forgetting itself. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

 

What is aware of change sometimes is aware, but other times is totally lost in the dream.

 

If it's changing.. Then that's not what is aware of change. If what's aware of change itself is a subject to change.. Then a statement about absolute change cannot be made. Without there being a static ground that is observing the change.. without being affected by it. 

Who you think you are changes.  Who you really are which is nothing doesn't change. How can nothingness change?.   Forms keep changing. The formless doesn't  and can't change.  And since forms keep changing they aren't really forms.. That makes them formless.  So forms change which means they are formless... And the formless doesn't change.   In other words.. Change is changeless as change. If change is an absolute.. It becomes changeless as change.

I hope this makes sense 

 

[Fran11]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Ego loves the idea of being an untouchable ground, like Self, Now, Awareness, Consciousness...etc.

LOL

You know what else the ego loves? Thinking it knows better than everybody else, including all sages in human history in your case.

Has the Now ever disappeared or changed in your experience? 

You can never say that conciousness is not.

Even in the so called "unconcious states" (deep sleep, faint) you don't actually experience the abscence of conciousness, you mistakenly infer it later, because of the abscence of memories.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Fran11

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Fran11 said:

LOL

You know what else the ego loves? Thinking it knows better than everybody else, including all sages in human history in your case.

Has the Now ever disappeared or changed in your experience? 

You can never say that conciousness is not.

Even in the so called "unconcious states" (deep sleep, faint) you don't actually experience the abscence of conciousness, you mistakenly infer it later, because of the abscence of memories.

I did a spelling mistake. Of course Self, Now, Awareness, Consciousness exist. They are all names for God, which is the only thing that exist.

I´m just saying that, since you are God, you can be lost on your on creation, or not.

If you are lost in your on creation, there´s no "untouchable peaceful awareness" that can save you, because YOU are literally alone as God!!

If you can´t save/awake yourself, nobody can save you. There´s no "outside agent" to hold on to as a saviour.

Either you are awake or you are asleep. Of course there are states. But what i mean is that you have the 100% responsability. 

What you have written has nothing to do with the discussion (maybe you wrote it because of my spelling mistake). And I agree with all 100%.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, kai0 said:

If I can imagine some thing better than current existence from my pov than I am imagining some thing that is not there. This mean my imagination is false?

You can imagine whatever you want. The only problem is that your mind has biases. You imagine that some things are better than other things, which isn't ultimately true.

Seriously contemplate this: Why would one thing be better than any other? It isn't! Only due to your selfishness.

Does a rock care if it gets kissed, spanked, raped, crushed, melted? Nope. Because the rock is unbiased. The rock is selfless.

[Fran11]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

If you are lost in your on creation, there´s no "untouchable peaceful awareness" that can save you, because YOU are literally alone as God!!

Yes, I understand what you are saying now. There is true in that perspective.

But also, see that suffering is a superimposition on that "untouchable peaceful awareness", awareness can't really suffer/enjoy its content, the thing that seems to be suffering/enjoying the content, is actually also content (body-mind-ego).

Of course if you aren't in a state of God-Conciousness you won't experience it like that. You are right about that.

But even in low states of conciousness, there's a deep layer that's always free, even if its not realised.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Fran11

[Fran11]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolute does change. 

How can something that is beyond time change? Change always implies time.

I understand what you mean, form is also an aspect of the absolute.

And yes, the absolute does seem to change in our experience because we can realise it in many levels of depth.

But I would rather say that neither the absolute nor form really change. It all exists beyond time, and time is an ilusion that's necessary to make our experiencing possible.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Fran11

[Tim R]

Anybody else get the feeling that it's always the same conversations in this forum only in slightly different packages?

There's no point in clashing mere philosophies, if the truth is recognized - for it is not a philosophy. 

[Fran11]

5 minutes ago, Tim R said:

There's no point in clashing mere philosophies, if the truth is recognized - for it is not a philosophy. 

Did you expect to have a direct recognizion of God by reading the forum? 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Fran11 said:

Yes, I understand what you are saying now. There is true in that perspective.

But also, see that suffering is a superimposition on that "untouchable peaceful awareness", awareness can't really suffer/enjoy its content, the thing that seems to be suffering/enjoying the content, is actually also content (body-mind-ego).

Of course if you aren't in a state of God-Conciousness you won't experience it like that. You are right about that.

But even in low states of conciousness, there's a deep layer that's always free, even if its not realised.

Good to know we are in the same page.

Quote

But even in low states of conciousness, there's a deep layer that's always free, even if its not realised.

I agree. Yet, if its not realized, isn´t the whole thing lose the point?

For who is this deep layer enjoyable? If the only who can enjoy it never exist at such deep layer??

You see the problem here? @Fran11

Edited September 19, 2020 by Javfly33

[Fran11]

32 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

For who is this deep layer enjoyable? 

For itself of course. That's why pure awareness never complains 

But yeah I get you, it's paradoxical. You are always beyond suffering, and you are not.

There's true in both perspectives. No concept does justice to reality. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Fran11

[bejapuskas]

8 hours ago, Tim R said:

Anybody else get the feeling that it's always the same conversations in this forum only in slightly different packages?

There's no point in clashing mere philosophies, if the truth is recognized - for it is not a philosophy. 

This forum is about philo vs. sophy  

[Dodo]

8 hours ago, Tim R said:

Anybody else get the feeling that it's always the same conversations in this forum only in slightly different packages?

There's no point in clashing mere philosophies, if the truth is recognized - for it is not a philosophy. 

Hahahah! A typical conversation:

Person A: "am inlightent"

Person B: