Quitting Effexor and Withdrawal Symptoms, Interference with Psychedelics

[Lieseluke]

Hello to everyone! 
(This is my first post so I hope I am not violating any values here)

I wish to receive some advice or hear some personal experience from people who have taken antidepressants (favourably Venlafaxine (also known as Effexor)) and who tried to quit, are still trying to quit and/or suceeded. Besides, I have some questions about psychedelics (mushrooms).

My situation is the following:

I have been on antidepressants (first Escitalopram, then switching to Effexor) for about to years now and my current dose of Effexor is 225 mg daily, I have been taken this dose for a couple of months now. I never liked taking pills and I already quit my sleeping pills two or three months ago but kept taking my antidepressants. When I started researching psychedelics, I also started reading about quitting antidepressants and I was shocked about the reports from other people.

I have two personal concerns:

1. I want to take psychedelics (mushrooms) for personal growth and therapeutic/healing intentions which seems to be impossible/not advisable with Effexor.
2. I do not want to keep taking Effexor my whole life and I do not want to keep my body in a state of addiction where I am probably also suffering from side effects.

The thing with Effexor is that the withdrawal symptoms are severe (from what I have read until now), even so severe that many people who try start taking the pills again because quitting is painful and can take a very long period of time, mess with your emotions and psyche, possibly making you unable to work for a while. Regarding psychedelics the problem is that the effects on Effexor will very much be decreased to such an extent that most people cannot trip anymore (they feel euphoria and maybe some body sensations) but have a completely sober mind and even with increased doses (you have to increase them otherwise it seems that you get no effects at all) it is likely that you will not get the full effects. 

I am not saying that it is like this for everyone taking Effexor or that you can trust everything out there in the internet but there seems to be some common doubt about Effexor or antidepressants in general and I am concerned.

So is there anyone who also took Effexor and quit successfully? How were your experiences? Over what period of time did you decrease the dose? How long did it take for you to stabilise?

I would be very thankful to receive some answers and I hope I structured my post sufficiently.
Have a beautiful week to whoever may read this!

[The0Self]

Effexor is an SNRI. SNRI withdrawal is known to be just about the most difficult and unpleasant of all the antidepressant types. About 3-4 years ago, I was taking Cymbalta (an SNRI) for a variety of issues including narcolepsy, because SNRI’s decrease REM sleep, thereby decreasing the intensity of nightly sleep paralysis, a major debilitating and terrifying symptom of narcolepsy. I quit cold turkey and it wasn’t particularly terrible, but I was on a medium-low dose of 60mg.
 

These were my symptoms. Lasted about 3-5 weeks. Brain shivers, inability to contain both crying and laughter, intense dreams, sleep paralysis, feeling of intense energy in the body, the urge to rock back and forth, very dilated pupils, and loud ringing in the ears. It really wasn’t that bad but if the intensity was turned up 2-3x it would have been extremely unpleasant, though not the worst thing in the world. The most prominent symptom for most people seems to be depression, which luckily I didn’t experience at all, but I did experience panic at times for the first time in my life. There was a slight ever-present feeling of falling — like falling off a 4 legged chair that you’re balancing on 2 legs, or the feeling of the first drop on a roller coaster. The most prominent symptom by far was the brain zaps/shivers — every time I’d slightly move my head or even my eyes, there would be 3 quick intense jerks in my mind/head and field of vision accompanied by a “shoop, shoop......shoop” sound... a pause, and then another one or 2 straggler zaps. Hundreds and hundreds of zaps a day.

It wasn’t that bad for me honestly, but if you’re on anything resembling a high dose, I would say you absolutely must taper unless you’re already an unusually mentally stable person. I literally could just barely prevent myself from laughing in inappropriate situations — self control over emotional displays was inhibited massively.

Edited September 16, 2020 by The0Self

[Grateful Dead]

https://www.spiritpharmacist.com/

 

[Lieseluke]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

Effexor is an SNRI. SNRI withdrawal is known to be just about the most difficult and unpleasant of all the antidepressant types. About 3-4 years ago, I was taking Cymbalta (an SNRI) for a variety of issues including narcolepsy, because SNRI’s decrease REM sleep, thereby decreasing the intensity of nightly sleep paralysis, a major debilitating and terrifying symptom of narcolepsy. I quit cold turkey and it wasn’t particularly terrible, but I was on a medium-low dose of 60mg.
 

These were my symptoms. Lasted about 3-5 weeks. Brain shivers, inability to contain both crying and laughter, intense dreams, sleep paralysis, feeling of intense energy in the body, the urge to rock back and forth, very dilated pupils, and loud ringing in the ears. It really wasn’t that bad but if the intensity was turned up 2-3x it would have been extremely unpleasant, though not the worst thing in the world. The most prominent symptom for most people seems to be depression, which luckily I didn’t experience at all, but I did experience panic at times for the first time in my life. There was a slight ever-present feeling of falling — like falling off a 4 legged chair that you’re balancing on 2 legs, or the feeling of the first drop on a roller coaster. The most prominent symptom by far was the brain zaps/shivers — every time I’d slightly move my head or even my eyes, there would be 3 quick intense jerks in my mind/head and field of vision accompanied by a “shoop, shoop......shoop” sound... a pause, and then another one or 2 straggler zaps. Hundreds and hundreds of zaps a day.

It wasn’t that bad for me honestly, but if you’re on anything resembling a high dose, I would say you absolutely must taper unless you’re already an unusually mentally stable person. I literally could just barely prevent myself from laughing in inappropriate situations — self control over emotional displays was inhibited massively.

Thanks for your answer.
Some of the symptoms you are describing match with the other information I have gathered but it sounds a little promising at least that not everybody experiences them on a terrible level though I can imagine that it is never a pleasant thing to go through.

In the patient informatin leaflet of my medication it says that the very maximum dose is 375 mg daily, so with 225mg I take a medium to high dose which probably should not be quit cold turkey. I already experienced vertigo, headaches and nausea when I once forgot to take my pill in the morning.

[Lyubov]

I have been on Effexor three times over the years. I actually found this one to be the most helpful for PTSD fear I've experienced before. I have mostly positives to say about this medicine but there are some things to know about it. You can't trip while on it. Don't mix it with psychedelics. I don't think it's safe at all and not a good idea. Also quitting this medication cold turkey is an awful idea. Do not do this. You need to taper off of it. I got very mild symptoms for just a few days if I recall. It takes me about 3 weeks or so to taper off it.   

[Enlightenment]

@Lieseluke I've had good experiences with Effexor. Max dose I was on 137,5mg. Don't quit cold turkey especially from your dose. If you go slow enough, you will not notice any ar almost any side effects but it may take a while to withdraw. Going from 225mg to 112,5 should be easier so you might go slightly faster, then I would recommend slowing it down. If your version has 12,5mg small capsules in one capsule and you don't mind setting alarms 2-3 times a day, here's what you can do:

Instead of taking 150mg and 75mg capsule, start taking 75mg 3x a day (every 8 hours) and then start adding 2 minutes to every 8-hour capsule taking time, like this

8:00 

+

8:02

+

8:04

etc. 

once you get to 187,5mg start taking 62,5mg 3x a day etc. 

 

 

[The0Self]

7 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

@Lieseluke I've had good experiences with Effexor. Max dose I was on 137,5mg. Don't quit cold turkey especially from your dose. If you go slow enough, you will not notice any ar almost any side effects but it may take a while to withdraw. Going from 225mg to 112,5 should be easier so you might go slightly faster, then I would recommend slowing it down. If your version has 12,5mg small capsules in one capsule and you don't mind setting alarms 2-3 times a day, here's what you can do:

Instead of taking 150mg and 75mg capsule, start taking 75mg 3x a day (every 8 hours) and then start adding 2 minutes to every 8-hour capsule taking time, like this

8:00 

+

8:02

+

8:04

etc. 

once you get to 187,5mg start taking 62,5mg 3x a day etc. 

 

 

This is a fine strategy.

To OP: the distinctive feeling of SNRI withdrawal isn’t intrinsically unpleasant like opioid withdrawal is, but when it’s too intense, it’s BAD — but closer to “insanity” than “pain” — it can be very mental, and very distracting. Unlike an opioid taper which is just dragging out the pain over a longer period (many would rather just get it over with), such is NOT the case with SNRI’s. Just taper slowly and methodically and assess how you feel as you go — speeding up or slowing down as you see fit.

[Michael569]

You need to make sure that the drug is out of your system before you engage with psychedelics. If you quit cold turkey you may slip into pharmacological crisis by not allowing your monoamine reuptake to self-adjust after having been manipulated by the drug. 

Work with your doctor and reduce your doses slowly. 

You also need to be mindful of the fact that psychedelics may interfere with venlafaxine's detoxification in the liver as these substances often compete for certain liver enzymes including CYP3A4. It takes around 4-6 weeks for the drug residue to be completely clear out once you discontinue. 

If your doctor is openminded enough he can help you withdraw through something like St John's Wort but DO NOT self-prescribe as you may end up delusional with something called "serotonin crisis". Always work with the specialist. 

[Lieseluke]

@Enlightenment Thanks for this strategy, I have not heard of it but it seems reasonable.

However, I might have to adapt it to my situation a little bit since I have trouble sleeping and setting alarms late in the night might not be exactly what I want but splitting the dose in several parts to take throughout the day seems good. 

[Lieseluke]

22 hours ago, Michael569 said:

You need to make sure that the drug is out of your system before you engage with psychedelics. If you quit cold turkey you may slip into pharmacological crisis by now allowing your monoamine reuptake to self-adjust after having been manipulated by the drug. 

Work with your doctor and reduce your doses slowly. 

You also need to be mindful of the fact that psychedelics may interfere with venlafaxine's detoxification in the liver as these substances often compete for certain liver enzymes including CYP3A4. It takes around 4-6 weeks for the drug residue to be completely clear out once you discontinue. 

If your doctor is openminded enough he can help you withdraw through something like St John's Wort but DO NOT self-prescribe as you may end up delusional with something called "serotonin crisis". Always work with the specialist. 

Good to know, I was not sure how long it would take to get my body completely clean of venlafaxine.

Just to make sure I understood you correctly: It takes 4-6 weeks after tapering off until my system is clear?

[Enlightenment]

41 minutes ago, Lieseluke said:

However, I might have to adapt it to my situation a little bit since I have trouble sleeping and setting alarms late in the night might not be exactly what I want but splitting the dose in several parts to take throughout the day seems good. 

You don't have to be perfect with that if you go to sleep at 10 and from this method, the next time you should take it would be 11:30 just take 11:30 dose right before going to sleep but then still add let's say 8h and 14 minutes to 11:30, not the time you took it (10)

 

Of course, you don't have to set alarms to wake up in the middle of the night, that would be an overkill

[Enlightenment]

@Lieseluke And BTW I don't recommend this but I've tried 5-MeO-DMT when I was on 100mg of Venlafaxine and it worked just fine. However, as I was very depressed at the time, 5-MeO made me just very very anxious and ultimately it wasn't worth it for me

SSRI's and psychedelics are not that dangerous, Lithium and MAOI inhibitors are

[Michael569]

@Enlightenment wow nice find! Never seen such a comprehensive comparison. What's their source? 

[Enlightenment]

@Michael569 https://tripsit.me/tripsit-releases-v3-0-of-its-drug-combination-chart/